Railway-wise, what is each country best at?

[Bletchleyite]

100% agree. Competence, general ease of using the service, cleanliness.
Worst part is probably lack of disabled access on the older (but comfortable) stock.

Such a shame the new double deck stock has such small windows, though. It's arguably the most beautiful country in the world - large picture windows should be a key requirement for everything.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Such a shame the new double deck stock has such small windows, though. It's arguably the most beautiful country in the world - large picture windows should be a key requirement for everything.

This issue has been puzzling me too. But could it be possible that some Swiss would prefer their train interiors to receive rather less sun-derived brightness, for example to make the use of electronic devices easier? Try riding a train through a snow covered landscape on a bright day to get a feel for this.

 

[Austriantrain]

This issue has been puzzling me too. But could it be possible that some Swiss would prefer their train interiors to receive rather less sun-derived brightness, for example to make the use of electronic devices easier? Try riding a train through a snow covered landscape on a bright day to get a feel for this.

Since the Swiss that use these trains use them very often and know the countryside, most of them probably won’t care. And they don’t run their railway for tourists, but for themselves. With the exception of some lines and trains of course, but those do have large windows.

Those „long-distance“ double-Deck sets are actually commuter-carrying workhorses, bringing the cash in for SBB.

 

[43096]

Later in the day today I noticed something else that the SBB was doing well. I realised that there were many school groups on the move, all teenagers. What it was all about I don’t know but departure indicators were showing where groups with reservations should stand on the platform for each train concerned, and it could be why DD IC trains had extra single deck coaches.

In addition to all of this, as I was arriving at Zurich HB just now an Re 4/4 II was departing with a rake of Bpm-type ‘fresh air’ coaches full of these teenage groups. Good to see the SBB could run such an extra train especially in the middle of the evening peak.

I remember a few years ago waiting at Zürich Hbf when a train arrived in the terminus platforms that was reversing to continue its journey, with something like a 6 minute dwell time at the pletform. It was formed of a standard double-deck push-pull set, but on the back were two standard coaches, with no driving trailer. Almost before the train had stopped, one of SBB's Ee922 shunters was dropping into the platform with a driver and two "men with gloves" on board. Whilst the partly of schoolchildren quickly disembarked (in very efficient manner), one man was uncoupling the two coaches from the train and the other was coupling them to the shunter. They then departed as quickly as they had arrived. With a driver in the now leading cab, it was ready for a right-time departure. The whole operation had taken no more than four minutes.

That is how you run a railway, on so many levels.

 

[Beebman]

Since the Swiss that use these trains use them very often and know the countryside, most of them probably won’t care. And they don’t run their railway for tourists, but for themselves. With the exception of some lines and trains of course, but those do have large windows.

Those „long-distance“ double-Deck sets are actually commuter-carrying workhorses, bringing the cash in for SBB.

Over the last few days while I was in Switzerland I noticed that many passengers on the sun-facing side of the trains had window blinds pulled right down. No interest there in the view!

 

[duesselmartin]

I guess eben you see paradise every day of the year you stop appreciating it.

 

[AdamWW]

I guess eben you see paradise every day of the year you Stop appreciating it.

I never found that even when regularly travelling over scenic routes in the UK. Admittedly not every day. But a lot.

 

[duesselmartin]

My commuter is among industrial a landscape so I really don't know, so just an assumption.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess eben you see paradise every day of the year you Stop appreciating it.

I weekly commuted there for about 2 years and never tired of it.

 

[Austriantrain]

I weekly commuted there for about 2 years and never tired of it.

When I had to do military service back in the mid-1990s, I took the train every week over the fabulous Semmering line. After a couple of months, I hated it, especially knowing that if I had had a car, I would have saved almost an hour each way.

I can’t wait for the Semmering tunnel to open and I am sure all those people regular travelling over the Gotthard felt the same.

On my current commute, the line is in tunnels or between noise barriers most of the way, but even if it weren’t, I would rarely look out of the window since I’d know every tree by heart.

Personally, I don’t understand why you Brits don’t have rolling stock with panoramic windows for those many wonderfully scenic line [1]. But I am not a UK taxpayer, and as a tourist I would contribute only the tiniest of a fraction through fares, so it’s not really something I should really state an opinion about.

[1] I don’t really care that much for Swiss scenery; I have enough idyllic alpine landscapes at home. The West Highland line OTOH… now that is one of the most wonderful rail journeys I undertook, even from tiny class 156 windows…

 

[miklcct]

Same here. I consider Ouigo a joke and the style of operation of TGV services counterproductive on some classic lines: for instance, between Rennes and Brest or Bordeaux and Hendaye, TGVs and TER alternate, but one is compulsory reservation, the other is not, and they have non-compatible ticketing. As a result, you have two separate offers with, accordingly, an unattractive and infrequent timetable, whereas the offer would be very attractive if they were integrated.

Finland is the same a well. There are basically 3 systems with incompatible ticketing: VR long-distance traffic, VR commuter traffic and HSL, with the exception that HSL tickets are solely used on VR commuting trains which run inside the HSL area. HSL and commuter train tickets can't be used on long distance trains at all in Greater Helsinki region, and in the HSL area, you can't even buy a ticket valid on the long-distance train for local travel.

But overall, a Standard only budget high speed train I have no issue with, that, Lumo and LNR are just a variation on a theme.

Where do LNR run high speed or even intercity trains (in contrast to regional / commuter trains)? Isn't LNR a regional / commuter only operator which runs at 180 km/h max?

I consider the Euston - Birmingham route a regional train because it's primary purpose is to serve the towns en-route, not connecting London and Birmingham.

 

[DanNCL]

Personally, I don’t understand why you Brits don’t have rolling stock with panoramic windows for those many wonderfully scenic line [1]. But I am not a UK taxpayer, and as a tourist I would contribute only the tiniest of a fraction through fares, so it’s not really something I should really state an opinion about.

[1] I don’t really care that much for Swiss scenery; I have enough idyllic alpine landscapes at home. The West Highland line OTOH… now that is one of the most wonderful rail journeys I undertook, even from tiny class 156 windows…

Coming up with poor train specifications seems to be something us Brits are quite good at!

 

[Austriantrain]

Coming up with poor train specifications seems to be something us Brits are quite good at!

Not sure that’s true. There are good and bad trains everywhere, and you do have a rather restricted loading gauge to deal with…

 

[Bletchleyite]

[1] I don’t really care that much for Swiss scenery; I have enough idyllic alpine landscapes at home. The West Highland line OTOH… now that is one of the most wonderful rail journeys I undertook, even from tiny class 156 windows…

There are many criticisms you can level at 156s but small windows is not one of them. They are massive.

 

[Austriantrain]

There are many criticisms you can level at 156s but small windows is not one of them. They are massive.

Having just had a look at some interior pictures… my bad. I can’t for the life of me remember why my recollection of my WHL trip is „beautiful, but terrible views out of the window“.

 

[43096]

Having just had a look at some interior pictures… my bad. I can’t for the life of me remember why my recollection of my WHL trip is „beautiful, but terrible views out of the window“.

The old seats on the ScotRail 156s were very low down, so the window was quite high against your sitting position. The new seats are higher up but much less comfortable, though.

 

[philg999]

Not sure that’s true. There are good and bad trains everywhere, and you do have a rather restricted loading gauge to deal with…

The main problems I have with British stock is 1) it’s rare to find anywhere to put large luggage or bicycles, 2) the stock used on many routes is inappropriate (eg 156s on a 5 hour journey), 3) for some reason the internal materials/construction/seating on almost every new train feels cheap, compared to new stock in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Why can’t we have nice seats, legroom, internal partitions and wood effect panelling?

The other thing Britain excels at are the ridiculous number of unnecessary on train announcements which use such labourious flowery language that if you’re on a stopping service in London, the announcements are continuous. Sometimes I wonder if I am stuck in some kind of endless repetitive thought loop when on the overground.

 

[the sniper]

Having just had a look at some interior pictures… my bad. I can’t for the life of me remember why my recollection of my WHL trip is „beautiful, but terrible views out of the window“.

Haven't been on a 156 for years, but aren't you sat a bit low in them, somewhat restricting the view out? I can also imagine the windows might have been dirty...

 

[Austriantrain]

Haven't been on a 156 for years, but aren't you sat a bit low in them, somewhat restricting the view out? I can also imagine the windows might have been dirty...

Very possible; I was actually yearning for Swiss-style windows in that trip. I also find that dense airline-style seating generally does not give good views, bays are much better.

 

[Taunton]

Finland - reasonably fast*

One of those systems with surprising contradictory aspects. Taking the Pendolino from Helsinki to Turku, 200 km/h in part, other substantial parts of the route single line, with waiting for oncoming services more than cancelling out the speed. Do they run at 200 km/h on single line?

 

[Austriantrain]

One of those systems with surprising contradictory aspects. Taking the Pendolino from Helsinki to Turku, 200 km/h in part, other substantial parts of the route single line, with waiting for oncoming services more than cancelling out the speed. Do they run at 200 km/h on single line?

I don’t find that contradictory at all. Although I don’t know much about Finland, it is very much plausible that it was much cheaper and faster to upgrade for 200 than to double the entire line (especially if the extra capacity is not - yet? - needed), and thus still achieve competitive journey times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The main problems I have with British stock is 1) it’s rare to find anywhere to put large luggage or bicycles, 2) the stock used on many routes is inappropriate (eg 156s on a 5 hour journey), 3) for some reason the internal materials/construction/seating on almost every new train feels cheap, compared to new stock in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Why can’t we have nice seats, legroom, internal partitions and wood effect panelling?

Some UK trains do have fake wood, though none I know of have ICE style actual wood (fire regs maybe?). The TPE units all do, it is really quite a classy scheme, though I find the 185s look a bit East German in style.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2022 ==

Very possible; I was actually yearning for Swiss-style windows in that trip. I also find that dense airline-style seating generally does not give good views, bays are much better.

I think the best the UK has in that regard is the Class 170, which doesn't have proper Swiss style panoramic windows but due to its tapered shape sort of does.

I do find a proper panoramic First Class on the scenic ScotRail routes is somewhat of a missed opportunity. If ScotRail choose Stadler for their rural hydrogen powered units perhaps they will, as it is pretty much a standard offering for them.

 

[AlexNL]

Earlier in this thread I saw some (justified) grumbling about some of the inconveniences of the OV-chipkaart for tourists. You'll be pleased to hear that the Dutch public transport sector is currently working on the nationwide roll-out of the successor: OVpay.

With OVpay it'll be possible to use contactless (debit or credit) or a smartphone (Apple Pay, Google Wallet) just like how you use an OV-chipkaart today. Foreign cards will be accepted, too.

The roll-out is currently ongoing, it is expected to be completed within 12 months.

 

[AdamWW]

Earlier in this thread I saw some (justified) grumbling about some of the inconveniences of the OV-chipkaart for tourists. You'll be pleased to hear that the Dutch public transport sector is currently working on the nationwide roll-out of the successor: OVpay.

With OVpay it'll be possible to use contactless (debit or credit) or a smartphone (Apple Pay, Google Wallet) just like how you use an OV-chipkaart today. Foreign cards will be accepted, too.

The roll-out is currently ongoing, it is expected to be completed within 12 months.

That certainly sounds very useful.

And not just tourists of course - it can also a be pain for people travelling on business who don't take their car or rent one.
On a recent trip to the Netherlands I had to explain to a couple of colleagues how they could save a lot of money on the bus and go with them to the nearest station to get their anonymous cards.

Somewhat amusingly though, having looked at the OVpay link you gave it appears that although there aren't many services currently accepting OVpay where we were, the bus that we were using is already on the scheme.

 

[johncrossley]

When OV-Pay rollout is complete, the Netherlands will presumably be the first country to have touch in touch out contactless, just like it was the first country to have nationwide touch in touch out smartcards. It must be stressed though that if you only use the train and not local or regional transport, you don't need an OV-Chipkaart and you can buy tickets in the same way as you can in other countries. Either as an e-ticket or from the machine or even ticket office (if available).

 

[philg999]

Ok

When OV-Pay rollout is complete, the Netherlands will presumably be the first country to have touch in touch out contactless, just like it was the first country to have nationwide touch in touch out smartcards. It must be stressed though that if you only use the train and not local or regional transport, you don't need an OV-Chipkaart and you can buy tickets in the same way as you can in other countries. Either as an e-ticket or from the machine or even ticket office (if available).

I assume that even after OVPay goes live; those of us with subscriptions will still need a personal ov card? I don’t see how there’s enough functionality in a credit card chip to support the subscription data.

 

[johncrossley]

I assume that even after OVPay goes live; those of us with subscriptions will still need a personal ov card? I don’t see how there’s enough functionality in a credit card chip to support the subscription data.

I assume so, unless they are going to implement some kind of capping system. They haven't done that for the OV-Chipkaart. Similarly, London still needs its Oyster card as contactless can't do everything.

 

[AdamWW]

I assume that even after OVPay goes live; those of us with subscriptions will still need a personal ov card? I don’t see how there’s enough functionality in a credit card chip to support the subscription data.

I assume so, unless they are going to implement some kind of capping system. They haven't done that for the OV-Chipkaart. Similarly, London still needs its Oyster card as contactless can't do everything.

It looks as if credit/debit cards are just used to record touch in and touch out's and then at the end of the day the system works out what you owe and applies a single charge to the card.
So I don't think the card needs any particular functionality other than identifying itself.

I belive in London you can do pretty much everything with a debit/credit card you can with Oyster, apart from having discounts linked to it, which in principle I would have thought could be done.
And of course London still needs its debit/credit card system as Oyster cards can't do everything (some rail journeys possible with debit/credit cards but not Oyster)

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Will OV-Pay mean that UK citizens will be able to rent an OV-Fiets bicycle at stations? Currently only Dutch, Belgian and German citizens are able to do so.

 

[DanielB]

I assume so, unless they are going to implement some kind of capping system. They haven't done that for the OV-Chipkaart. Similarly, London still needs its Oyster card as contactless can't do everything.

AFAIK there will not be a capping system. However, according to the OVpay website it would be possible to use subscriptions (like a discount product) in the future.
Likely these will be connected to your bank card in the backoffice, just like how for example NS Flex functions at the moment. The bank card then just is a token (like an OV chipcard is now for NS Flex) and fares are calculated afterwards instead of by the validator.
Coupling your card, which is already used in the app which shows your travel history, is easily done by using the code appearing on your bank statement when the first trips are deducted from your account.
An important note for OVpay is however that you should use exactly the same card for checking in and out. It won't work when you check in with your physical bank card and check out with a virtual one in your Google Pay wallet for example.

Will OV-Pay mean that UK citizens will be able to rent an OV-Fiets bicycle at stations? Currently only Dutch, Belgian and German citizens are able to do so.

Applying for OVfiets is not possible online with foreign bank accounts, but as long as you've got an IBAN and an OV-chipcard it should be possible to apply for OV-fiets by calling customer service.
It would only be hard to generate a MijnNS account to see your invoices and rental transactions: NS is making a lot of IT related mistakes recently and one of them is that your able to select other countries when creating an account, but the validation of postal codes is always done against the Dutch format