This is a new excuse for a delay

[yorkie]

This is unreal. People moan on this forum about connections not being held and how the train doors were shut on them and that the guard should have waited for them etc etc….

Now there’s moans that a train has been held for a late connection. Unbelievable.

I think it's great that they are holding connections and I know many others agree.

But not everyone does; those of us who argue for holding trains are used to hearing arguments against.

So it's nothing new that a range of opinions exist on the subject!

 

[43066]

A consistent approach is impractical given the number of variables in play. Unless one or more of these options is acceptable:

• No trains held ever for connections,

This should be (and is!) the general rule, with a few possible exceptions eg last trains, and extreme examples such as Cornish branch lines where virtually every passenger for the branch will be on the connecting train.

I think it's great that they are holding connections and I know many others agree.

If a trainload of a few hundred passengers is delayed for the sake of twenty or thirty off a late running connection you’ll find more people overall are delayed by holding the connection. I’d like to see the railway run so as to inconvenience the fewest people possible. This is generally how things are done.

It’s also true that those who complain about connections not being held will be the first to moan if they are on a train which is delayed waiting for a connection.

We have been over this before .

 

[390136]

All Manchester to London services are Pendolinos.

Not all, there's one a day M-F at the moment and voyagers can be swapped on to any Pendolino diagram if required

 

[Bevan Price]

If someone on the 18:01 Chester to Manchester was trying to make a connection to the 19:24 Stockport to London, then they would have missed it due to the train being held at Chester. Then the compliant would be that another passenger get preferential treatment. Most people accept things can go wrong but most people also hate being treated unfairly. An inconsistent approach leads to complaints, it doesn't prevent them.

Would you risk a 7 minute connection at Stockport - or anywhere else ?

Looking at RTT, I suspect that they might have expected the train from Llandudno to regain a little of the lost time and maybe arrive Chester at about 18:02 / 18:03. In those circumstances, it would make sense to delay the Northern train to Stockport/Manchester, and let the Llandudno - Manchester depart first - otherwise the latter would get extra delays as far as Mickle Trafford Jn.

In the event, the train from Llandudno did not regain much time - and was further delayed by station overtime at Chester (a booked 2 minute stop extended to over 5 minutes) As it was only 2 coaches, was it yet another grossly overcrowded train ?

 

[northwichcat]

Would you risk a 7 minute connection at Stockport - or anywhere else ?

What choice do you have if Northern haven't enhanced Mid-Cheshire services and Avanti are running a reduced timetable?

You can request a longer connection time on journey planners but the minimum for Stockport is 5 so they'll advertise it as a suitable onward service and may even offer Advance singles for it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2022 ==

A consistent approach is impractical given the number of variables in play. Unless one or more of these options is acceptable:

• No trains held ever for connections,
• All trains held always for connections, even if the late train is empty…

I think it's great that they are holding connections and I know many others agree.

I think the North Wales Coast provides some good examples of where a European style approach could be used.

London to Chester is hourly, but London to North Wales (direct) is just a few services per day. A German DB style approach could mean the hours North Wales don't have a direct train to London, they have an official connection which can be held. Doing that doesn't mean they also need to hold Merseyrail trains at Chester is there's late running arrivals from North Wales. That would still be consistent, even if it wouldn't suit everyone.

Train operators could also use ticket selling information to try and determine where there's likely to be a popular connection and where a train holding a train for one person would disadvantage five if another service isn't held.

 

[mmh]

Complaints about padding...



Complaints about padding AND Complaints about waiting times and journey times..

And head in sand from railway staff. I'll never understand why so many on here seem to take any sort of criticism as a personal affront. I'm not criticising staff, far far from it.

I've never felt a need to unquestionably defend an employer, everywhere I've ever worked has done things wrong or badly. So does the railway. Everywhere does.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Aug 2022 ==

Would you risk a 7 minute connection at Stockport - or anywhere else ?

You have to at Warrington Bank Quay from North Wales / Chester going north. Unsurprisingly, it often doesn't work.

 

[43066]

And head in sand from railway staff. I'll never understand why so many on here seem to take any sort of criticism as a personal affront. I'm not criticising staff, far far from it.

I don’t think it’s that. It *certainly* isn’t down to loyalty to one particular employer over another on the railway!

It just gets a little wearing to see the same inherently contradictory complaints trotted out again and again: people moan about delays, then moan when connections aren’t held. People moan about “padding” yet complain about unreliability.

 

[ComUtoR]

And head in sand from railway staff. I'll never understand why so many on here seem to take any sort of criticism as a personal affront. I'm not criticising staff, far far from it.

I guess my post went too far over your head but I'll bite...

Yep. We totally bury our heads in the sand. That's the railway for you. Its stuck in a loop where nothing you say or do will help. Some of us will let it slide off the proverbial. Some will just shrug their shoulder and some will stick their head in the sand.

I've never felt a need to unquestionably defend an employer, everywhere I've ever worked has done things wrong or badly. So does the railway. Everywhere does.

I'm one of the first to say how badly we do but it's from a place where I know where the issues are and the reality of them. Not just the same old tedious moans that are never going to change.

 

[Annetts key]

I've never felt a need to unquestionably defend an employer…

Absolutely not. Sometimes it’s the management/companies that makes it harder to run the railways…

 

[RJ]

I for one am glad when connections are held.

A few months back I was travelling from East Croydon to Leicester at 2220 on a Sunday evening. It became apparent that Thameslink get bottom priority - the 2220 train that was 3 minutes late at Purley lost its path in favour of an on time Southern train to London Bridge that sits in the platform at East Croydon for 4 minutes then stops at Norwood Junction.

The train I was on lost its path again to the 2300 EMR ex St Pancras, which I was trying to catch.

I stayed on the Thameslink, which was further delayed by that EMR service, which was crawling along because it is booked to follow the train I was on all the way to Bedford. That train switched to the fast line at Radlett, clearing the path for the train I was on that was now thundering along.

The connection at Luton Airport Parkway is an official 6 minute one, but we arrived to see the EMR’s door lights extinguish and because of the delay it was not possible to get to Bedford in time to catch the EMR service, which would still crawl to Bedford but at an average speed that was higher than the train I was on.

So I stayed on the Thameslink train and made a phonecall, pleading the case that the EMR was the last train of the day to Leicester and was given priority which caused a delay to the Thameslink service which broke the connection.

My case was accepted and the signaller held the danger signals at Bedford for a few minutes to allow what turned out to be a few people to transfer to the EMR service.

To be very fair, every time I have requested a connection to be held, usually late a night when a train has been delayed it has been done.

 

[boiledbeans2]

[...]
So I stayed on the Thameslink train and made a phonecall, pleading the case that the EMR was the last train of the day to Leicester and was given priority which caused a delay to the Thameslink service which broke the connection.
[...]

Out of interest, who did you call?

 

[baz962]

I for one am glad when connections are held.

A few months back I was travelling from East Croydon to Leicester at 2220 on a Sunday evening. It became apparent that Thameslink get bottom priority - the 2220 train that was 3 minutes late at Purley lost its path in favour of an on time Southern train to London Bridge that sits in the platform at East Croydon for 4 minutes then stops at Norwood Junction.

The train I was on lost its path again to the 2300 EMR ex St Pancras, which I was trying to catch.

I stayed on the Thameslink, which was further delayed by that EMR service, which was crawling along because it is booked to follow the train I was on all the way to Bedford. That train switched to the fast line at Radlett, clearing the path for the train I was on that was now thundering along.

The connection at Luton Airport Parkway is an official 6 minute one, but we arrived to see the EMR’s door lights extinguish and because of the delay it was not possible to get to Bedford in time to catch the EMR service, which would still crawl to Bedford but at an average speed that was higher than the train I was on.

So I stayed on the Thameslink train and made a phonecall, pleading the case that the EMR was the last train of the day to Leicester and was given priority which caused a delay to the Thameslink service which broke the connection.

My case was accepted and the signaller held the danger signals at Bedford for a few minutes to allow what turned out to be a few people to transfer to the EMR service.

To be very fair, every time I have requested a connection to be held, usually late a night when a train has been delayed it has been done.

Usually Thameslink get priority over the EMR services.

 

[XAM2175]

Out of interest, who did you call?

I'd suggest that it isn't a public number.

 

[RJ]

Out of interest, who did you call?

I called Thameslink and asked them to help with the connection. There was no guard on that train and it wouldn’t seem fair to trouble the driver and delay the train further so calling for help with a connection involving last trains seemed a reasonable last resort.

Elsewhere on the network, guards have been incredibly helpful with making that call and having connections held. A few years back I travelled on an EMT service from Liverpool to Sheffield to connect with the last train of the day to Derby. There was a decent connection at Sheffield but we were delayed crossing the Pennines, one of the engines wasn’t working or something. That connection was held for about a minute which gave enough time for me to run across and catch it.

 

[ComUtoR]

I called Thameslink and asked them to help with the connection. There was no guard on that train and it wouldn’t seem fair to trouble the driver and delay the train further so calling for help with a connection involving last trains seemed a reasonable last resort.

How do you "call Thameslink" was it their customer service number, control room, platform office ?

I think there would be a lot of people itching to know both who you specifically called and what the number was; assuming it's public.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How do you "call Thameslink" was it their customer service number, control room, platform office ?

I think there would be a lot of people itching to know both who you specifically called and what the number was; assuming it's public.

As he's staff, or recent staff, I'm guessing he has the control room number to hand.

 

[43066]

I’m not sure off duty railway staff calling TOCs to hold trains *just for them* is a particularly good look…

 

[RJ]

How do you "call Thameslink" was it their customer service number, control room, platform office ?

I think there would be a lot of people itching to know both who you specifically called and what the number was; assuming it's public.

Short of suggesting a look at a tube of Canesten, I'm not sure I can assist any of those people much with that itching!

In all seriousness, a bit of creative Googling reveals an avenue to get in touch with Thameslink at that time of day. It's up to the TOC how they handle the call and whether or not they assist. They could just have easily said get as far as you can and seek help at Bedford, but they were super helpful.

One thing I didn't mention about the occasion, is after leaving Flitwick the driver announced over the tannoy to the people who approached him that he had been informed the EMR would be held at Bedford. I don't know what dialogue had happened or where he'd been approached, as the train didn't dwell anywhere for long but he definitely passed that information on. I personally wouldn't ever advocate troubling a driver about connections but some people will in the absence of anyone else to ask.

I’m not sure off duty railway staff calling TOCs to hold trains *just for them* is a particularly good look…

*Customer holding a Super Off Peak ticket covering the journey to Leicester, with a valid itinerary from National Rail Enquires showing a connection with the EMR service at Luton Airport Parkway, not wishing to be stranded at Bedford

On all other occasions it has been through the assistance of a guard or via a help point that a connection has been saved following an unforeseen delay - I applaud the railway for being helpful when things have gone wrong

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Of course, anyone who really thinks about it will know exactly where to find the control room phone numbers on public display in any given area...

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

Of course, anyone who really thinks about it will know exactly where to find the control room phone numbers on public display in any given area...

The phone number for TVSC’s SSM (Shift Signalling Manager) is 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3

 

[trainophile]

I can offer another highly unusual reason for delay - on the 11:00 London bound Greater Anglia last Thursday we were delayed for several minutes out of Norwich by a swan on the line! Was only on that train as a PHBT had cancelled all services to Ely (I was trying to get to King's Lynn). This lovely, obviously lost, swan meant I missed a connection at Stowmarket by a minute or two, so had to continue to Ipswich for the next hourly train.

(Even more annoying was that on checking RTT later, it turned out that the earlier connection at Stowmarket had waited about four minutes, presumably for connecting passengers to get over the bridge, but we weren't to know that and I thought being stuck at Ipswich for 40 minutes might be marginally preferable to being stuck at Stowmarket. In the event there wasn't much to choose!)

 

[ComUtoR]

The phone number for TVSC’s SSM (Shift Signalling Manager) is 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3

Hmmmm,

I think I need to update my phone book then. I must have the wrong number. (FYI, publically available if you know where to look)

 

[TUC]

Agreed.

You realise after a while that certain posters are just looking for excuses to moan and complain for the sake of it.

Agreed.

 

[northwichcat]

You realise after a while that certain posters are just looking for excuses to moan and complain for the sake of it.

You do realise the railways are terrible for customer service. Even some of the station and train staff who get praised for going out of their way to help passengers, are only doing what would be expected in other industries. Generally train tickets aren't cheap, so people shouldn't be getting Ryanair level of customer service, they should be getting Waitrose level of customer service. I'm not saying Ryanair always get it wrong or Waitrose always get it right but you can be sure Waitrose would do something if someone wearing their uniform showed a can't be arsed attitude.

Yesterday I had an advance ticket for a train that was cancelled. As I tried to scan the ticket at barriers at the wrong time it produced an error code at the barrier, so I had to ask someone to be manually let through. He did let me through but acted a bit like I was causing an inconvenience for him, rather than the railways being the ones causing an inconvenience for me. I did wonder if the guard on the train would have an issue scanning it, but it turned out that despite sitting in the portion of the train the guard was in for 45 minutes, the guard didn't enter the passenger area of the train once.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2022 ==

The phone number for TVSC’s SSM (Shift Signalling Manager) is 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3

Or you can send an email instead with a subject line of "FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!"