Doubling back at Gatwick off the Express from Victoria

[MikeWh]

A subtle and not published change to the PAYG fares will hit some commuters.

Fare Changes via Gatwick Airport – Oyster Fares Central

oysterfares.com

In a bit of a sneaky underhand move, GTR have silently increased the price of using the Gatwick Express and doubling back to Horley, Salfords, Earlswood or Redhill. This will now cost the same as the full Gatwick Express single, £20.60.

 

[RJ]

I wonder what brought these journeys to the attention of the powers that be, usually there is a trigger for things like this. And why are people doing this? There can’t be much of a time advantage in doing Victoria to Redhill via Gatwick and it doesn’t reduce the number of interchanges vs changing at East Croydon. Is there a reliability issue somewhere or are the commuter trains so busy people will go to those lengths to avoid them?

People will have to use services from the other platforms at Victoria if they wish to circulate via Gatwick without paying the Gatwick Express premium.

 

[MikeWh]

I wonder what brought these journeys to the attention of the powers that be, usually there is a trigger for things like this. And why are people doing this?

Perhaps staff observed commuters getting off the train going the wrong way and asked TfL to provide stats on non-GatEx journeys originating at platforms 13/14 at Victoria.

 

[RJ]

Perhaps staff observed commuters getting off the train going the wrong way and asked TfL to provide stats on non-GatEx journeys originating at platforms 13/14 at Victoria.

Looking at the timetable, there's a 3 minute connection between the Gatwick Express and the half hourly service serving the stops to Redhill - in theory at least. If the connection is made then that would be quite a bit quicker than changing at East Croydon for people travelling to Earlswood, Salfords and Horley. The way the timetable works, it only really makes sense to circulate via Gatwick on the Gatwick Express, no other trains.

That said, the infrastructure is there to charge a premium fare for use of the Gatwick Express so it's understandable that customers who are using it are charged for it.

 

[JonathanH]

Interesting. I wonder if they have done the same with using Heathrow Express to travel to Hayes & Harlington.

In what sense is this change to Gatwick Express fares not publicised but known about, and does it actually apply to all destinations, not just those up to Redhill? [Ah, I see it now appears in the fare finder for Victoria to Redhill.]

It is of course now really important that when Redhill trains depart from platform 13 and 14 at Victoria that passengers are sent to the platform 9-12 gateline.

What is quite worrying is that the peak trains from Victoria to the Redhill route now appear to be booked out of platform 13 at Victoria.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-09-06/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[MikeWh]

What is quite worrying is that the peak trains from Victoria to the Redhill route now appear to be booked out of platform 13 at Victoria.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...22-09-06/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

To say nothing of various Reigate trains earlier on. This is indeed worrying.

 

[greatkingrat]

Interesting. I wonder if they have done the same with using Heathrow Express to travel to Hayes & Harlington.

I doubt that is an issue. Hayes - Heathrow - Paddington (via HX) takes just as long as Hayes - Paddington (via XR) even before you add on the connection time at Heathrow so I can't see many people wanting to do that.

 

[RJ]

If that is reflective of what's happening in reality, it shouldn't be an issue as the Gatwick Express validators are deactivated or cordoned off and the standalone validators used when other services depart from those platforms. The station staff are well versed with this process.

 

[JonathanH]

The station staff are well versed with this process.

Yes, but they can't catch everyone.

If that is reflective of what's happening in reality, it shouldn't be an issue as the Gatwick Express validators are deactivated or cordoned off and the standalone validators used when other services depart from those platforms.

How does that work when there is a 1759 to Brighton Gatwick Express service from platform 14 and a 1808 to Reigate / Three Bridges Southern service from platform 13?

 

[RJ]

Yes, but they can't catch everyone.


How does that work when there is a 1759 to Brighton Gatwick Express service from platform 14 and a 1808 to Reigate / Three Bridges Southern service from platform 13?

The same would most likely apply.

 

[greatkingrat]

The ECS for the Reigate train doesn't arrive until 1757 so the platform may not be shown until the GX to Brighton has departed anyway.

 

[yorkie]

GTR are facing a trial in 2023 for illegally charging premiums for brands such as Gatwick Express.

GTR appear to be giving more ammunition for the case against themselves, as well as increasing their liabilities they face if and when they lose the case (which, based on their poor arguments in the matter so far, I fully expect them to lose).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Sep 2022 ==

How does that work when there is a 1759 to Brighton Gatwick Express service from platform 14 and a 1808 to Reigate / Three Bridges Southern service from platform 13?

That's a good question.

Perhaps some mystery shopping needs to take place? If there is anyone on here who makes such journeys, do get in touch...

 

[JonathanH]

The ECS for the Reigate train doesn't arrive until 1757 so the platform may not be shown until the GX to Brighton has departed anyway.

I may not have picked a good example. The same phenomenon of Gatwick Express and Southern departures from platforms 14 and 13 with a ten minute gap happens through the peak.

(It might be easier if Gatwick Express gets a dedicated gateline at Gatwick Airport following the rebuild.)

 

[Kite159]

.

I may not have picked a good example. The same phenomenon of Gatwick Express and Southern departures from platforms 14 and 13 with a ten minute gap happens through the peak.

(It might be easier if Gatwick Express gets a dedicated gateline at Gatwick Airport following the rebuild.)

Or easier for any premium fare/tourist tax paid for travelling on the slightly faster red trains to get permanently axed.

Although it will probably only happen at the same time as the cheaper 'thameslink' only fares are also axed.

 

[Minstral25]

Over Xmas I was checking my contactless account to see how much my weekly college lecturing was costing to attend. I found an overcharge fare from Kilburn to Redhill which is normally £14.50 all the way (as it is single journey) was £2.60 for tube Kilburn to Victoria and then £18.10 for Victoria to Redhill, meaning I had been overcharged £6.20. Reason being I caught a Reigate train from platform 13.

 

[JonathanH]

Reason being I caught a Reigate train from platform 13.

...and presumably forgot to use the platform 9 to 12 barrier line.

Although there are signs to use the platform 9 to 12 gateline if arriving on a Southern train, many people just go through the 13 to 14 gates. It is worse in the other direction.

Of course, it isn't just the higher charge that a touch on platforms 13 to 14 results in, it also isn't set up for out of station interchange, so starts a new journey, as your history shows.

 

[MikeWh]

Over Xmas I was checking my contactless account to see how much my weekly college lecturing was costing to attend. I found an overcharge fare from Kilburn to Redhill which is normally £14.50 all the way (as it is single journey) was £2.60 for tube Kilburn to Victoria and then £18.10 for Victoria to Redhill, meaning I had been overcharged £6.20. Reason being I caught a Reigate train from platform 13.

Can you post your journey history for that day please? The Victoria to Redhill fare of £20.60 shouldn't be discountable so I'm puzzled.

In any case, you should contact the helpdesk and ask for a refund down to the normal through single fare. If they refuse, then I suggest going to GTR customer services and asking them. Please let us know how you get on.

 

[JonathanH]

Can you post your journey history for that day please? The Victoria to Redhill fare of £20.60 shouldn't be discountable so I'm puzzled.

Isn't it just hitting the Redhill to Zone 1-6 cap at £35.20?

14.50 plus 2.60 plus 18.10.

 

[MikeWh]

Isn't it just hitting the Redhill to Zone 1-6 cap?

The GatEx fare isn't supposed to be included in caps.

 

[JonathanH]

The GatEx fare isn't supposed to be included in caps.

Yes, but possibly it is when the destination is Redhill rather than Gatwick?

 

[MikeWh]

Yes, but possibly it is when the destination is Redhill rather than Gatwick?

Ooh, that's an interesting thought. £14.50 + £2.60 + £18.10 is indeed the all-day cap of £35.20. The plot thickens.

 

[WizCastro197]

Over Xmas I was checking my contactless account to see how much my weekly college lecturing was costing to attend. I found an overcharge fare from Kilburn to Redhill which is normally £14.50 all the way (as it is single journey) was £2.60 for tube Kilburn to Victoria and then £18.10 for Victoria to Redhill, meaning I had been overcharged £6.20. Reason being I caught a Reigate train from platform 13.

It appears all peak splitters from Victoria to Reigate now depart from either Platform 13 or 14 so I wouldn't be surprised if more issues like this arise with other frequent users who don't see the sign. I shall try and be more careful in the future to avoid something like this happening.

 

[JonathanH]

Ooh, that's an interesting thought. £14.50 + £2.60 + £18.10 is indeed the all-day cap of £35.20. The plot thickens.

I note that on the single fare finder for journeys between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport, the fare for Gatwick Express says:

Journeys via Gatwick Express only. Journeys on these services are not included in caps and Travelcards.

On the corresponding entry for journeys between London Victoria and Redhill, it just says

Journeys via Gatwick Express only.

 

[Minstral25]

Can you post your journey history for that day please? The Victoria to Redhill fare of £20.60 shouldn't be discountable so I'm puzzled.

In any case, you should contact the helpdesk and ask for a refund down to the normal through single fare. If they refuse, then I suggest going to GTR customer services and asking them. Please let us know how you get on.

I also travelled to college in the morning (Redhill to Kilburn via Farringdon) £14.50 - correct fare. I should have been charge £29 for both ways.

I regularly do the journey and it is £29.00 every time. The one exception was the one highlighted. I have of course claimed to TfL for reimbursement.

 

[MikeWh]

I note that on the single fare finder for journeys between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport, the fare for Gatwick Express says:


On the corresponding entry for journeys between London Victoria and Redhill, it just says

Good spot. The data in the zonal coverage file which I use to quote caps is missing for those journeys. Hence why my fare finder says no caps applicable. I'll look into that.

 

[Hadders]

I’m sure @yorkie will be interested in this.

It would be good to see the journey history.

 

[yorkie]

It appears all peak splitters from Victoria to Reigate now depart from either Platform 13 or 14 so I wouldn't be surprised if more issues like this arise with other frequent users who don't see the sign. I shall try and be more careful in the future to avoid something like this happening.

Please don't try to avoid it; simply get overcharged and request the difference and keep the evidence

I will contact anyone who posts here who has been overcharged as any overcharging is indeed of great interest.

 

[JonathanH]

Please don't try to avoid it; simply get overcharged and request the difference and keep the evidence

With all due respect, it is a lot of hassle to go through the process of intentionally using the platform 13/14 barriers and reclaiming the cost when the alternative is just to go through the platform 9-12 barriers and get charged correctly.

On the other hand if the gate between platform 12 and 13 happened to be closed that would be a big issue.

 

[hkstudent]

Can you post your journey history for that day please? The Victoria to Redhill fare of £20.60 shouldn't be discountable so I'm puzzled.

In any case, you should contact the helpdesk and ask for a refund down to the normal through single fare. If they refuse, then I suggest going to GTR customer services and asking them. Please let us know how you get on.

Would it be quicker to just jump the gun to escalate to London Travelwatch / London Assembly Members once TfL refused the refund as I fear that GTR won't be providing positive response either given to current DfT funding climate?

 

[357]

What a silly situation where the railway is blaming passengers for being overcharged because they forgot to use a different platforms gateline and didn't see a poster.

We really don't make ourselves user friendly. How many people will use the GX gateline and when they check their statement think "tried the railway once, they overcharged me, next time I'll find another way".