What’s going on with Thameslink?

[MikeWM]

Wow. It seems GN can still astonish me. No Cambridge fasts *at all* - on a weekday! - because of a problem 30 miles further up the track?

Even I didn't anticipate it being that rubbish on a weekday, as I said above on Friday, I assumed south of Cambridge at least they would be fairly normal.

Actually quite incredible.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Wow. It seems GN can still astonish me. No Cambridge fasts *at all* - on a weekday! - because of a problem 30 miles further up the track?

Even I didn't anticipate it being that rubbish on a weekday, as I said above on Friday, I assumed south of Cambridge at least they would be fairly normal.

Actually quite incredible.

Incredible id suggest outrageous and the constituents of Cambridge, Ely and Kings Lynn should be on the case of their MPs one of which is Steve Barclay.

 

[MikeWM]

Incredible id suggest outrageous and the constituents of Cambridge, Ely and Kings Lynn should be on the case of their MPs one of which is Steve Barclay.

One of the relevant MPs is (almost certainly) going to be Prime Minister on Tuesday! Truss's consistuency includes Downham Market.

 

[Magdalen Road]

Incredible id suggest outrageous and the constituents of Cambridge, Ely and Kings Lynn should be on the case of their MPs one of which is Steve Barclay.

I have already complained to the "local" MP, Lucy Frazer re the refusal to pay compensation for the "first train 3 hours later than usual" on the day after strikes.
This will be a follow up.

The 0516 Ely (0443) King's Lynn is, of course, running late due to the speed restrictions. The suggested connection to King's Cross is 0609, arriving 0703 - 30 minutes later than the usual timetabled service.
London northbound is worse, as previous posters noted there's only an hourly service and it's a slow stopper.

Unsurprisingly, even for post-covid commuter travel, the platform is pretty empty. I presume anyone who can work from home is doing so. I can't.

 

[Bikeman78]

Wow. It seems GN can still astonish me. No Cambridge fasts *at all* - on a weekday! - because of a problem 30 miles further up the track?

Even I didn't anticipate it being that rubbish on a weekday, as I said above on Friday, I assumed south of Cambridge at least they would be fairly normal.

Actually quite incredible.

There's no excuse for not running the King's Cross to Ely trains as booked. There must be a lot of drivers with nothing to do.

 

[Failed Unit]

There's no excuse for not running the King's Cross to Ely trains as booked. There must be a lot of drivers with nothing to do.

I am not so sure, I think the main reason behind the latest timetable change is lack of drivers (rather then lack of passengers) - GTR are well known for being dishonest with passengers. The latest changes have released a number of drivers, but I think the problems are worse then they would like us to know about. Off peak we are still at half hourly on the suburban service but passengers numbers are recovering nicely off peak (same can't be said about peak) - yes the 6 car trains are not full but I don't think they have the drivers to cover the diagrams and lack of passengers is a good smoke screen.

 

[MikeWM]

I see they are also not bothering to run what would normally be the 2335 between Cambridge and Kings Lynn, which with the 2305 Ely terminator already removed leaves a 90 minute gap before the last train; nothing going north from Cambridge between the 2257 GA and 0007.

Good job I noticed that *before* I headed out this evening - yet more plans I'll need to change. Thanks GN, you're doing such a great job.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I am not so sure, I think the main reason behind the latest timetable change is lack of drivers (rather then lack of passengers) - GTR are well known for being dishonest with passengers. The latest changes have released a number of drivers, but I think the problems are worse then they would like us to know about. Off peak we are still at half hourly on the suburban service but passengers numbers are recovering nicely off peak (same can't be said about peak) - yes the 6 car trains are not full but I don't think they have the drivers to cover the diagrams and lack of passengers is a good smoke screen.

This is the inner suburban the outers are a different driver contingent so must be plenty of them sitting in the rest room with not much to do

 

[philjo]

The Thameslink app now mentions the issue is due to ground conditions under the track following the hot dry weather.
The Fast trains are all cancelled again in the journey planners for tomorrow.

 

[MML]

If the extra journey time on the Cambridge to Kings Lynn shuttle is causing longer driver duties, then perhaps they cannot operate 2tph fast between Kings Cross and Cambridge. But you'd think they could operate 1tph and make it a 12-car formation.

 

[danielcanning]

I travel to Cambridge frequently, including tomorrow. With the slashing of stopping services north of Letchworth and now the withdrawal of the fast services even though my local station is New Southgate it now makes more sense for me to travel via Liverpool Street. How is this acceptable? Sooner or later I’m just going to give up on the train and drive…

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I travel to Cambridge frequently, including tomorrow. With the slashing of stopping services north of Letchworth and now the withdrawal of the fast services even though my local station is New Southgate it now makes more sense for me to travel via Liverpool Street. How is this acceptable?

Its not but nobody seems bothered anymore. Yes its understandable that issues with the track have thrown a curved ball but the easiest solution nowadays is to just withdraw services and issue out a hollow apology. A better explanation should be provided but hey its only the passengers who pay the bills.

 

[Magdalen Road]

The Thameslink app now mentions the issue is due to ground conditions under the track following the hot dry weather.
The Fast trains are all cancelled again in the journey planners for tomorrow.

It's until at least 18th September!

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit I am surprised they can’t run 1 fast per hour. Although the Cambridge- Brighton can absorb the load off peak I suspect the peak is cosy.

 

[MikeWM]

They've got an 'explanation' they're linking to on Twitter now:

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....s-lynn-cambridge-and-london-for-track-repairs

Although the track defects and speed restrictions are on the stretch between King's Lynn and Cambridge, this affects the trains beyond Cambridge, to London. By splitting them off to run between King's Lynn and Cambridge only, the services will run more reliably. However, this will reduce the number of trains running between Cambridge and London. There are not enough trains and drivers to maintain both.

Well, I'm clearly persuaded. I guess they've only got 6 387s and 3 drivers available at any one time. Amazing that in the 'normal' timetable they (sometimes) manage to run one London-Ely and one London-Kings Lynn an hour with such limited resources!

 

[bramling]

They've got an 'explanation' they're linking to on Twitter now:

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....s-lynn-cambridge-and-london-for-track-repairs


Well, I'm clearly persuaded. I guess they've only got 6 387s and 3 drivers available at any one time. Amazing that in the 'normal' timetable they (sometimes) manage to run one London-Ely and one London-Kings Lynn an hour with such limited resources!

Their claim doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny.

Even if Kings Lynn took double the usual amount of time, it would be possible to run an hourly 8-car Cambridge to Kings Lynn shuttle with 6 units. By the look of things 6 units is exactly what is running (I presume all three trains are formed 2x387).

An hourly fast 12-car service from Cambridge to London can be run with as few as 6 units, 9 if things are padded out.

Add in the Peterborough services which also use 6 units, and that adds up to 21 at the very most.

There are 29x 387/1s and 6x 387/3s.

GTR are not being honest here.

One does wonder if someone looks at this, decides the Cambridge-Brighton service can cope, and the fast 387 service gets permanently lopped back.

 

[MikeWM]

GTR are not being honest here.

Indeed not, not remotely. Still, they have well-established form on that.

One does wonder if someone looks at this, decides the Cambridge-Brighton service can cope, and the fast 387 service gets permanently lopped back.

I don't expect it will get quite as bad as that, at least not yet, but it is somewhat troubling that these services have been just so casually disregarded.

 

[bramling]

I don't expect it will get quite as bad as that, at least not yet, but it is somewhat troubling that these services have been just so casually disregarded.

I wouldn’t rely on it. It seems quite obvious that DFT have got the hump that they can’t really shorten the 12-car Thameslink services, and therefore wish to concentrate as much usage on these as they can get away with. The Baldock peak services are gone, as are most of the Peterborough peak and all evening services - even the Covid timetables contained some of these.

It’s not inconceivable for someone to decide that Cambridge can manage with 3x TL plus 2x GA off-peak.

 

[philjo]

I see 17:39 and 18:39 Kings Cross to Cambridge services are showing in the journey planners today, both calling at Letchworth and Royston. There is also a 21:09 Kings Cross to Ely.

08:09 Cambridge to Kings Cross ran this morning.

 

[BPN2022]

Surely they can run 1 KLN shuttle and 1 fast per hour? Still a much more reduced frequency.

 

[bramling]

I see 17:39 and 18:39 Kings Cross to Cambridge services are showing in the journey planners today, both calling at Letchworth and Royston. There is also a 21:09 Kings Cross to Ely.

2109 KX to Ely is the daily 700/0 Ely & back, which has commenced with the September changes.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Perhaps now Shapps has been booted out he can put a bit of effort in on behalf of his constituents to sort out GN

 

[bramling]

Perhaps now Shapps has been booted out he can put a bit of effort in on behalf of his constituents to sort out GN

I can picture him insisting there are “eight trains an hour between London and Cambridge”. Another opportunity for him to humiliate himself!

 

[tankmc]

Indeed not, not remotely. Still, they have well-established form on that.



I don't expect it will get quite as bad as that, at least not yet, but it is somewhat troubling that these services have been just so casually disregarded.

The service to Kings Lynn has always felt like an annoyance to GN. They are quick to cancel services at Cambridge and put little effort into improving reliability - just padded the timetable to make it look like its more reliable.

 

[Envy123]

The service to Kings Lynn has always felt like an annoyance to GN. They are quick to cancel services at Cambridge and put little effort into improving reliability - just padded the timetable to make it look like its more reliable.

It's always been a weird service, to be fair. Not exactly a commuter service, as it ends up 93 miles out of London. But can't be something under, say, LNER because Kings Lynn isn't as major as Leeds or Edinburgh.

 

[tankmc]

It's always been a weird service, to be fair. Not exactly a commuter service, as it ends up 93 miles out of London. But can't be something under, say, LNER because Kings Lynn isn't as major as Leeds or Edinburgh.

It is a commuter service for Cambridge just as much as London. Between Cambridge and Kings Lynn it gets very busy with commuters and locals. Cambridge is exploding and many people cant afford to live in the city so are now communing in from Ely & Downham Market.

In addition its also much quicker to take the train from these places than drive to Cambridge as the roads are so poor. Its a well used service all day!

 

[MikeWM]

It is a commuter service for Cambridge just as much as London. Between Cambridge and Kings Lynn it gets very busy with commuters and locals. Cambridge is exploding and many people cant afford to live in the city so are now communing in from Ely & Downham Market.

In addition its also much quicker to take the train from these places than drive to Cambridge as the roads are so poor. Its a well used service all day!

Indeed. There are sizable flows on all three routes : Cambridge <-> London, north of Cambridge (Waterbeach, Ely, stations to Kings Lynn) <-> London, and north of Cambridge <-> Cambridge. This is the only service that satisfies all three of those. Before they went to 8-carriages north of Cambridge in 2020, the peak services were often so busy they were impossible to get on, with heavy loadings for most of the day.

Conversely the A10 is the only feasible way to drive between Ely and Cambridge, which is a not-at-all-great single carriageway with vast amounts of congestion. And the bus service is very poor and finishes very early (and doesn't run at all on Sunday!).

 

[uglymonkey]

My Cambridge from London Bridge last night ( about 18:15) was running about 1/2 hour late.

 

[bramling]

Indeed. There are sizable flows on all three routes : Cambridge <-> London, north of Cambridge (Waterbeach, Ely, stations to Kings Lynn) <-> London, and north of Cambridge <-> Cambridge. This is the only service that satisfies all three of those. Before they went to 8-carriages north of Cambridge in 2020, the peak services were often so busy they were impossible to get on, with heavy loadings for most of the day.

Conversely the A10 is the only feasible way to drive between Ely and Cambridge, which is a not-at-all-great single carriageway with vast amounts of congestion. And the bus service is very poor and finishes very early (and doesn't run at all on Sunday!).

Letchworth <> London and Royston <> London can probably be added to that.

With the peak Baldocks now missing, really there should be an effort to push as much Royston and Letchworth traffic onto the 387s to free up space on the Cambridge/Brighton service for people further in. We already seem to be back to the pre-2018 situation where people from stations like Baldock and Hitchin are now again gravitating to the stopping services to the detriment of people further in, which is increasingly undesirable as numbers pick back up.

The service from somewhere like Baldock Letchworth Hitchin or Stevenage I now regard as being so poor as to be pretty much unusable. Indeed I didn’t use the train from my station at all during the month of August, and only one or twice during July. I think that’s the first time in my adult life I’ve gone a complete month without using both a national rail train at all or my local rail service.

 

[uglymonkey]

Baldock is normally the last station you can get a seat, Letchworth onwards its standing only in the morning peak.