Lockdown effects now killing/harming more people than Covid

[greyman42]

Maybe these were Omicron BA-1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, respectively, and I've had it 5 times since the start of the year (in addition to last November). More likely though, I'd guess that due to Covid I'm more sensitive to detecting extremely mild cold-like symptoms than previously, and such symptoms I would have completely ignored and put down to work stress, or similar, in previous years.

Why has covid made you more sensitive to detecting cold like symptons?

 

[Jimini]

Why has covid made you more sensitive to detecting cold like symptons?

I suspect an element of "seek and ye shall find" when it comes to personally looking for potential symptoms. The whole psychological game -- thanks to the government and media in the main -- won't have helped this in the slightest.

 

[takno]

Interesting that since Covid I've had only two "proper" cold-like illnesses (with mild fever, enough to feel too rough to go into work), and one of those was definitely actual Covid. The other one was in March 2020 so may have been, but I didn't have a cough and my temperature was below the threshold quoted at the time so maybe not.

However I seem to have had an extraordinarily high number of very mild colds. The type where you feel a bit tired and your head feels heavy, but you don't really feel ill as such, and would probably not take time off work. Just this year I have had 5 such things in January, March going into April, late May, mid-July (for less than a day!) and late August. The last two were particularly mild and really no more than heavy head and slight dizziness.

Maybe these were Omicron BA-1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, respectively, and I've had it 5 times since the start of the year (in addition to last November). More likely though, I'd guess that due to Covid I'm more sensitive to detecting extremely mild cold-like symptoms than previously, and such symptoms I would have completely ignored and put down to work stress, or similar, in previous years. Would be interesting to hear if others have made similar observations.

I've had more of them. I think they're probably not Covid infections, since the couple of times I've tested positive for that it's left me feeling pretty rotten. I'd blame a combination of increased sensitivity, and a lot of minor infections which haven't been able to do the rounds for a while and have a lot of non-immune people to work through

 

[nw1]

Why has covid made you more sensitive to detecting cold like symptons?

Paranoia that they were all Covid, I guess! Not so much now, but when there was strong messages to self isolate etc (i.e. up to about January this year), maybe it was more of concern and on one or two occasions I worked from home rather than going in.

 

[MikeWM]

Meanwhile, at the other end of life's journey, something or other has caused a massive drop in conceptions that lead to births, from about April 2021 - down more than 10%, which is unprecedented. These are the UK birth numbers for the first five months of 2021 and 2022 (so conceptions in April-August 2020 and April-August 2021).


(source: table 6 in the latest UKHSA surveillance report, https://assets.publishing.service.g...01870/vaccine-surveillance-report-week-35.pdf)

(Note that total births in 2021 were only up 1.8% over 2020 - so there was a small 'lockdown baby boom', but very small compared with the subsequent drops we're now seeing, so that doesn't explain it).

A similar effect has been seen in many other countries around the world, starting at a similar time. As with the rather large amount of excess deaths we are continuing to see, there seems surprisingly little interest in looking into what may have caused this.

 

[Stephen42]

Meanwhile, at the other end of life's journey, something or other has caused a massive drop in conceptions that lead to births, from about April 2021 - down more than 10%, which is unprecedented. These are the UK birth numbers for the first five months of 2021 and 2022 (so conceptions in April-August 2020 and April-August 2021).

View attachment 120351View attachment 120352
(source: table 6 in the latest UKHSA surveillance report, https://assets.publishing.service.g...01870/vaccine-surveillance-report-week-35.pdf)

(Note that total births in 2021 were only up 1.8% over 2020 - so there was a small 'lockdown baby boom', but very small compared with the subsequent drops we're now seeing, so that doesn't explain it).

A similar effect has been seen in many other countries around the world, starting at a similar time. As with the rather large amount of excess deaths we are continuing to see, there seems surprisingly little interest in looking into what may have caused this.

Unlike excess deaths, the birth figures seem broadly consistent with expectations and standard fluctuations. The pre-pandemic the trend was decreasing births, for 2016-2020 England & Wales live births declined by 3.1% on average year on year. That turns the 1.8% increase into a 5.1% increase on the pre-pandemic trend. If you count 2021 as a one off increase then 2022 would be expected to be 7.8% lower than 2021.

That reduces the gap to 4% from the trend not including any displacement from the increase the year before. Together with other factors that could displace pregnancies later (wanting to be vaccinated with a gap before trying, couples delayed forming due to restrictions or see schools back to normal) the numbers aren't that surprising. Potential adverse effects from vaccinations are monitored, but all evidence so far hasn't seen any observable impact on fertility or pregnancy outcomes.

 

[Hans]

Unlike excess deaths, the birth figures seem broadly consistent with expectations and standard fluctuations. The pre-pandemic the trend was decreasing births, for 2016-2020 England & Wales live births declined by 3.1% on average year on year. That turns the 1.8% increase into a 5.1% increase on the pre-pandemic trend. If you count 2021 as a one off increase then 2022 would be expected to be 7.8% lower than 2021.

That reduces the gap to 4% from the trend not including any displacement from the increase the year before. Together with other factors that could displace pregnancies later (wanting to be vaccinated with a gap before trying, couples delayed forming due to restrictions or see schools back to normal) the numbers aren't that surprising. Potential adverse effects from vaccinations are monitored, but all evidence so far hasn't seen any observable impact on fertility or pregnancy outcomes.

The MHRA reporting system shows an increase in miscarriages, menstrual problems and stillbirths though, so that would indicate there are problems with fertility and pregnancy outcomes. The vaccines are still not fully approved, testing will not complete until 2023 and most importantly the testing prior to emergency approval being granted had not been conducted on pregnant women.

There are too many people who are very quick to say the vaccines are not causing any issues. Vaccine damage is the elephant in the room many people wish to ignore, however it is not going to go away, so the sooner there are discussions about it the better, it is far from a black and white situation that all evidence states there is no observable impact.

 

[Eyersey468]

There are too many people who are very quick to say the vaccines are not causing any issues. Vaccine damage is the elephant in the room many people wish to ignore, however it is not going to go away, so the sooner there are discussions about it the better, it is far from a black and white situation that all evidence states there is no observable impact.

I agree, it concerns me that the authorities are too quick to parrot the mantra it's safe and don't seem to be prepared to investigate any potential issues.

 

[nw1]

Meanwhile, at the other end of life's journey, something or other has caused a massive drop in conceptions that lead to births, from about April 2021 - down more than 10%, which is unprecedented. These are the UK birth numbers for the first five months of 2021 and 2022 (so conceptions in April-August 2020 and April-August 2021).

View attachment 120351View attachment 120352
(source: table 6 in the latest UKHSA surveillance report, https://assets.publishing.service.g...01870/vaccine-surveillance-report-week-35.pdf)

(Note that total births in 2021 were only up 1.8% over 2020 - so there was a small 'lockdown baby boom', but very small compared with the subsequent drops we're now seeing, so that doesn't explain it).

A similar effect has been seen in many other countries around the world, starting at a similar time. As with the rather large amount of excess deaths we are continuing to see, there seems surprisingly little interest in looking into what may have caused this.

Economic hard times post-lockdown leading to less people wanting to have children (with all the financial burdens that it brings) would be my guess.

 

[philosopher]

Meanwhile, at the other end of life's journey, something or other has caused a massive drop in conceptions that lead to births, from about April 2021 - down more than 10%, which is unprecedented. These are the UK birth numbers for the first five months of 2021 and 2022 (so conceptions in April-August 2020 and April-August 2021).

View attachment 120351View attachment 120352
(source: table 6 in the latest UKHSA surveillance report, https://assets.publishing.service.g...01870/vaccine-surveillance-report-week-35.pdf)

(Note that total births in 2021 were only up 1.8% over 2020 - so there was a small 'lockdown baby boom', but very small compared with the subsequent drops we're now seeing, so that doesn't explain it).

A similar effect has been seen in many other countries around the world, starting at a similar time. As with the rather large amount of excess deaths we are continuing to see, there seems surprisingly little interest in looking into what may have caused this.

One possible explanation for the falling birth rates that I can think of is that all the time people were forced to spend at home caused a lot of relationship conflict. A lot more couples hence split up or decided having babies was not a good idea. It would be interesting to see what the divorce stats in 2020 and 2021 look like.

 

[Hans]

I am sure there are multiple reasons for the changes including vaccine side effects, irrespective of those who wish to say the vaccine is safe. No vaccine is fully safe.

The swine flu vaccine was pulled very quickly following the narcolepsy issues caused. The number of side effects and deaths (via post mortem therefore provable) from the covid vaccines is higher ratio wise of vaccines given.

 

[MikeWM]

Unlike excess deaths, the birth figures seem broadly consistent with expectations and standard fluctuations. The pre-pandemic the trend was decreasing births, for 2016-2020 England & Wales live births declined by 3.1% on average year on year. That turns the 1.8% increase into a 5.1% increase on the pre-pandemic trend. If you count 2021 as a one off increase then 2022 would be expected to be 7.8% lower than 2021.

But assuming all that is the case, and suddenly the small boom in conceptions reverses precisely and entirely in April 2021 (why then precisely, rather than November 2020 or September 2021?) we're still seeing 13% drops in March and April 2022 births and a 14% drop in May. Is that really 'expected'? That's quite significantly below the trend even if you consider the 2020 births to have been 'brought forward', which itself seems a bit of a stretch.

For example, intuitively I would have expected to see somewhat of a *rise* after restrictions lifted, especially after eg. nightclubs reopened, due to a presumed increase in casual relationships, which were obviously rather more difficult to have during lockdowns and/or periods where social contact was more difficult. I suppose we need to see whether abortions are also up in this period, which may be informative.

Potential adverse effects from vaccinations are monitored, but all evidence so far hasn't seen any observable impact on fertility or pregnancy outcomes.

Well, a great many women have reported significant changes to their menstrual cycle after vaccination. That's rather key to fertility, so it wouldn't be entirely surprising if other aspects of fertility have been affected too.

Let's say some event or other affected the fertility of 10% of the population. How would that be noticed in the first year or so, other than when 10% fewer babies are born than expected 9 months later? Yes, eventually you'd have a lot more people seeking infertility treatment for example, but that takes time before a problem is noticed.

--

One possible explanation for the falling birth rates that I can think of is that all the time people were forced to spend at home caused a lot of relationship conflict. A lot more couples hence split up or decided having babies was not a good idea. It would be interesting to see what the divorce stats in 2020 and 2021 look like.

It would be interesting yes, but that doesn't seem to have affected conceptions happening in August or September 2020, after the first lockdown. Maybe the final lockdown in early 2021 was the 'straw that broke the camel's back' for many relationships, but as I said above, I'd have also expected a rather large rise in new casual relationships in the spring/summer of 2021.

--

Economic hard times post-lockdown leading to less people wanting to have children (with all the financial burdens that it brings) would be my guess.

Again, perhaps this is a factor. Or maybe people are now taking the (supposed) 'green' message to heart that having children is bad for the environment. I guess there are many possibilities.

But my point is that this should be being actively investigated, much as the excess deaths should be being actively investigated.

If the reasons are benign and/or transitory than good, but we need to know that. A society with significant excess death and significantly below-expected birthrate isn't doing well, whatever the reason, and if this goes on for some time, we're in yet more trouble.

 

[Razorblades]

There is very possibly a natural and understandable reluctance amongst the population, where one, two or more doses of vaccines have been taken by 90% of several age cohorts, to consider that these could be a ticking time-bomb.

That pressure of fearfulness will suppress a lot of people from daring to look at the data; meanwhile, in the corridors of government, few of those politicians and hangers-on involved in pushing the 'Safe and Effective' mantra will want to show any inkling that they could have been, dare I whisper it, wrong?

Even if there's no come-back, beyond the Vaccine Injury payment scheme, it will be hard to live with the fact that you maybe presided over a state-run health intervention, which was coercive to say the least, that has led to people's deaths.

What is really required at this point, and in the light of the emerging statistics, is proper investigative journalism, and access to a balanced debate where dissenting, sceptical and alternative views to the official narrative are given equal billing with the 'science' of SAGE's groupthink.

 

[greyman42]

There is very possibly a natural and understandable reluctance amongst the population, where one, two or more doses of vaccines have been taken by 90% of several age cohorts, to consider that these could be a ticking time-bomb.

Why should we think that they are a ticking timebomb?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2022 ==

Even if there's no come-back, beyond the Vaccine Injury payment scheme, it will be hard to live with the fact that you maybe presided over a state-run health intervention, which was coercive to say the least, that has led to people's deaths.

Which deaths are you referring to?

 

[Razorblades]

Why should we think that they are a ticking timebomb?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2022 ==


Which deaths are you referring to?

The vaccines could be thought of as a ticking time-bomb if people perceive a trajectory of excess deaths that follows the various phases of vaccine roll-out, but with several months lag. If this is postulated as a hypothesis, people who are jabbed several times could justifiably go into denial and not want to know, basically.

The deaths are those referred to in the post above mine (cut and pasted below):

'But my point is that this should be being actively investigated, much as the excess deaths should be being actively investigated.

If the reasons are benign and/or transitory than good, but we need to know that. A society with significant excess death and significantly below-expected birthrate isn't doing well, whatever the reason, and if this goes on for some time, we're in yet more trouble.'

 

[bramling]

Why should we think that they are a ticking timebomb?

The cause of the high level of excess deaths being seen is certainly something which needs to be figured out.

That said, the constrained access to health care would appear to provide an obvious explanation to at least some extent. If one puts a portcullis at the door of every GP surgery for many months it’s hardly going to have a beneficial outcome. Another one is the way ambulance waiting times seem to have gone through the roof.

Of course none of this has received focus because it involves asking uncomfortable questions in respect of the NHS, which is of course a political taboo, and in any case our politicians have been too busy on other stuff and the media too obsessed with Covid.

 

[kristiang85]

The cause of the high level of excess deaths being seen is certainly something which needs to be figured out.

That said, the constrained access to health care would appear to provide an obvious explanation to at least some extent. If one puts a portcullis at the door of every GP surgery for many months it’s hardly going to have a beneficial outcome. Another one is the way ambulance waiting times seem to have gone through the roof.

Of course none of this has received focus because it involves asking uncomfortable questions in respect of the NHS, which is of course a political taboo, and in any case our politicians have been too busy on other stuff and the media too obsessed with Covid.

The unusally high number of cardiac issues in people in their 30s/40s is probably the most worrying, both here and in the USA (I'm not sure about other countries as I haven't seen the data). This could be a number of things (maybe an unreported side effect of COVID, maybe a result of sedantry lifestyles during/after lockdown, and maybe a side effect of the jab) - all need to be investigated, rather than one or two being rejected purely because of dogma.

 

[Bikeman78]

One possible explanation for the falling birth rates that I can think of is that all the time people were forced to spend at home caused a lot of relationship conflict. A lot more couples hence split up or decided having babies was not a good idea. It would be interesting to see what the divorce stats in 2020 and 2021 look like.

You can count me in those figures! That aside, I wouldn't want to bring a child into this world at the moment. Too many uncertainties.

 

[greyman42]

The cause of the high level of excess deaths being seen is certainly something which needs to be figured out.

That said, the constrained access to health care would appear to provide an obvious explanation to at least some extent. If one puts a portcullis at the door of every GP surgery for many months it’s hardly going to have a beneficial outcome. Another one is the way ambulance waiting times seem to have gone through the roof.

Of course none of this has received focus because it involves asking uncomfortable questions in respect of the NHS, which is of course a political taboo, and in any case our politicians have been too busy on other stuff and the media too obsessed with Covid.

I agree with all of this and so find it strange that some people choose to blame the vaccination program for excess deaths.

 

[Hans]

Interestingly the last couple of posts here highlight the exact situation some posters on here have indicated is happening - the mantra than the vaccines can in no way be responsible for any deaths. This is a foolhardy opinion, I have said there may be multiple reasons for increasing deaths, vaccination being one of them, yet straight away the mere thought the vaccine could in fact have side effects including deaths is dismissed. The MHRA information clearly details side effects and deaths. Deaths have been attributed to the vaccine in coroners courts. Constantly stating this is wrong does not make the situation go away.

 

[greyman42]

Interestingly the last couple of posts here highlight the exact situation some posters on here have indicated is happening - the mantra than the vaccines can in no way be responsible for any deaths. This is a foolhardy opinion, I have said there may be multiple reasons for increasing deaths, vaccination being one of them, yet straight away the mere thought the vaccine could in fact have side effects including deaths is dismissed. The MHRA information clearly details side effects and deaths. Deaths have been attributed to the vaccine in coroners courts. Constantly stating this is wrong does not make the situation go away.

So what percentage of excess deaths would you put down to the vaccine? An educated guess will do.

 

[Hans]

There needs to be a discussion into if the vaccines are causing excess deaths, then a percentage can be attributed to them. Just as there was the with and of covid death statistics (the actual number of those passing way of covid was considerably lower) I expect the opposite is happening with any vaccine deaths. It was in a lot of peoples interests for the covid death figures to be high, just as it is in interests for the vaccine deaths to be low. The one educated guess I can very safely say is not correct is 0%.

The MP Christopher Chope has been asking questions within parliament of vaccine damage for many months, he has ensured vaccine damage payments are now being paid and the government have accepted the covid vaccines are causing side effects/death. This may be an unpalatable truth for many. I am sure at some point it will be possible to detail how many people have been damaged or sadly lost their lives due to these vaccines irrespective of the continuing mantra of they do not cause any issues.

 

[adc82140]

The excess deaths are largely going to be from things such as cancer and heart disease. The NHS pretty much told everyone to eff off for the best part of 18 months, so diseases treatable in their early stages have reached the point where they are now life ending.

 

[greyman42]

The excess deaths are largely going to be from things such as cancer and heart disease. The NHS pretty much told everyone to eff off for the best part of 18 months, so diseases treatable in their early stages have reached the point where they are now life ending.

I am sure most of us generally agree on that so why are some people looking to blame the vaccine?

 

[bramling]

I am sure most of us generally agree on that so why are some people looking to blame the vaccine?

The vaccine has certainly been raised as a possible factor, albeit one of a number.

I think we can say with certainty that lack of NHS access will absolutely not have helped. Indeed the damage is largely done now, though it doesn’t help that this is *still* an ongoing issue.

 

[Eyersey468]

The excess deaths are largely going to be from things such as cancer and heart disease. The NHS pretty much told everyone to eff off for the best part of 18 months, so diseases treatable in their early stages have reached the point where they are now life ending.

And now they are putting adverts out trying to encourage people to come to get checked out.

 

[bramling]

And now they are putting adverts out trying to encourage people to come to get checked out.

It’s almost as though the NHS’s left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. GP surgeries are *still* being highly obstructive.

 

[DustyBin]

This is a very interesting table, resulting from a FOI request (not by me I should add). Even accepting that the raw statistics don’t tell the full story, they are certainly striking, and not something I thought we’d ever see to be honest.

Table 1: Number of deaths where COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned on the death certificate, 1 February 2020 to 31 December 2021, by sex and age group, England and Wales

Age group	Males	Females
<1	1	0
1-4	0	0
5-9	0	0
10-14	0	1
15-19	1	0
20-24	4	1
25-29	12	3
30-34	24	7
35-39	42	15
40-44	52	24
45-49	87	43
50-54	138	52
55-59	234	92
60-64	254	102
65-69	279	119
70-74	357	204
75-79	395	252
80-84	492	402
85-89	470	533
90+	520	971

COVID-19 deaths and autopsies Feb 2020 to Dec 2021 - Office for National Statistics

 

[87electric]

Why am I not surprised.

 

[bramling]

This is a very interesting table, resulting from a FOI request (not by me I should add). Even accepting that the raw statistics don’t tell the full story, they are certainly striking, and not something I thought we’d ever see to be honest.

Table 1: Number of deaths where COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned on the death certificate, 1 February 2020 to 31 December 2021, by sex and age group, England and Wales

Age group	Males	Females
<1	1	0
1-4	0	0
5-9	0	0
10-14	0	1
15-19	1	0
20-24	4	1
25-29	12	3
30-34	24	7
35-39	42	15
40-44	52	24
45-49	87	43
50-54	138	52
55-59	234	92
60-64	254	102
65-69	279	119
70-74	357	204
75-79	395	252
80-84	492	402
85-89	470	533
90+	520	971

COVID-19 deaths and autopsies Feb 2020 to Dec 2021 - Office for National Statistics

Very interesting indeed. The difference between “from Covid” and “with Covid” is certainly something that never received sufficient attention, and this is something which still needs some serious retrospective scrutiny, though of course we’re probably never going to know the true answer. It’s probably fair to say that a proportion of the above are likely to have had an undiagnosed and/or unknown underlying condition.

As an aside, it’s also interesting to see the disposition between male and female. Significantly more male deaths than female ones. I suppose it may be the case that males are more likely to be in certain occupations which are less conducive to good health, but nonetheless still strange to see this still being the case in very young age groups too.