Priv travel from Heathrow

[Sheridan]

Yesterday I was at Heathrow T2/3 around 20.30, intending to buy an off-peak single to Honor Oak Park (route not via Heathrow Express), with my Rail Staff Leisure Card. On arrival at the station, I was unable to find a ticket office, and the staff there with tablet-based ticketing systems informed me they were only able to sell me a ticket to Paddington. So, unable to purchase my desired ticket, I asked to be let through the barriers in order to purchase at the first opportunity. This was refused, with the staff stating I would either have to tap in or buy a ticket to Paddington (presumably a HEx-route ticket). After some discussion, it became clear that they would not let me through the barriers so I tapped in with my card. I’ve now paid the £25.00 Heathrow Express fare plus £2.90 Paddington-Honor Oak Park, rather than the £3.55 I was expecting (the Priv Off-Peak fare).

My questions are - am I right that I should have been allowed to proceed through the barriers and pay at the first available opportunity, and if so can I request the difference back from HEx(/GWR)? I’ve never travelled from Heathrow before so I don’t know all the ins and outs and am happy to be told where I’m wrong on anything!

 

[furlong]

Could they not sell you a PRIV ticket to Paddington? Then you would be entitled to purchase an over-distance excess at Paddington for the rest of your journey. (This is the reason over-distance excesses exist but ths staff should have advised you accordingly - this can't be the first time they've had this situation.)
Or is the problem that they could not sell any PRIV tickets at all?

 

[Sheridan]

Could they not sell you a PRIV ticket to Paddington? Then you would be entitled to purchase an over-distance excess at Paddington for the rest of your journey.
Or is the problem that they could not sell any PRIV tickets at all?

I don’t believe they could sell any PRIV tickets at all, although I could be wrong. There were 4 or 5 of them on duty at a pretty quiet time so naturally they all chipped in and it became a bit chaotic - one did say I would be able to board and ‘try my luck’ but the member of staff on the barriers didn’t agree!

 

[Haywain]

Is there anywhere to collect ToD at Heathrow? If so you could have bought the required ticket through RSTL online.

 

[Sheridan]

Is there anywhere to collect ToD at Heathrow? If so you could have bought the required ticket through RSTL online.

I did have a brief look but could only get it to display the Anytime Single (route Any Permitted) fare so abandoned it. Now I’m playing around with it at leisure I see it has an option to show slower journeys and to show journeys not involving HEx, which brings up the £3.55 fare, so I will certainly use that if I find myself in this situation in the future. (Heathrow 123 shows as a collection option for ToD so I assume the machines there do allow it.)

 

[Watershed]

Yesterday I was at Heathrow T2/3 around 20.30, intending to buy an off-peak single to Honor Oak Park (route not via Heathrow Express), with my Rail Staff Leisure Card. On arrival at the station, I was unable to find a ticket office, and the staff there with tablet-based ticketing systems informed me they were only able to sell me a ticket to Paddington. So, unable to purchase my desired ticket, I asked to be let through the barriers in order to purchase at the first opportunity. This was refused, with the staff stating I would either have to tap in or buy a ticket to Paddington (presumably a HEx-route ticket). After some discussion, it became clear that they would not let me through the barriers so I tapped in with my card. I’ve now paid the £25.00 Heathrow Express fare plus £2.90 Paddington-Honor Oak Park, rather than the £3.55 I was expecting (the Priv Off-Peak fare).

My questions are - am I right that I should have been allowed to proceed through the barriers and pay at the first available opportunity, and if so can I request the difference back from HEx(/GWR)? I’ve never travelled from Heathrow before so I don’t know all the ins and outs and am happy to be told where I’m wrong on anything!

Whilst the staff did not act correctly (they should have let you through if they were unable to sell you the ticket you needed), equally you have exacerbated your losses by using the Heathrow Express when you were originally going to buy a 'not Heathrow Express' ticket. Unless your train happened to arrive at the 'wrong' Paddington platform?

I would submit a complaint to HEx but in future, to avoid hassle, I would simply buy the required ticket via RST Online and collect it at the ticket machine.

 

[Sheridan]

Whilst the staff did not act correctly (they should have let you through if they were unable to sell you the ticket you needed), equally you have exacerbated your losses by using the Heathrow Express when you were originally going to buy a 'not Heathrow Express' ticket. Unless your train happened to arrive at the 'wrong' Paddington platform?

I would submit a complaint to HEx but in future, to avoid hassle, I would simply buy the required ticket via RST Online and collect it at the ticket machine.

Ah, so does the contactless fare charged depend on where you tap out at Paddington? As I said, I don’t know the area and am unaware of some of the intricacies. If that’s the case, I will probably have to chalk it up to experience and let this one go, because once I had tapped in I did indeed travel on HEx, as I didn’t realise there were different gates for the different services at Paddington. Thanks for the information!

 

[Watershed]

Ah, so does the contactless fare charged depend on where you tap out at Paddington? As I said, I don’t know the area and am unaware of some of the intricacies. If that’s the case, I will probably have to chalk it up to experience and let this one go, because once I had tapped in I did indeed travel on HEx, as I didn’t realise there were different gates for the different services at Paddington. Thanks for the information!

Yes - you're charged the HEx fare if you touch out at the HEx platforms, otherwise you're charged the Elizabeth Line fare. The HEx fare is a standalone £25, which doesn't combine with any other fares and doesn't count towards capping.

TBH I'm surprised you thought you could catch the HEx without paying a premium?

With the NR only discount set on your Oyster card, I believe the HEx fare would at least have been discounted by 75%, making it a little less painful.

 

[Sheridan]

Yes - you're charged the HEx fare if you touch out at the HEx platforms, otherwise you're charged the Elizabeth Line fare. The HEx fare is a standalone £25, which doesn't combine with any other fares and doesn't count towards capping.

TBH I'm surprised you thought you could catch the HEx without paying a premium?

With the NR only discount set on your Oyster card, I believe the HEx fare would at least have been discounted by 75%, making it a little less painful.

I was aware that the HEx would cost more, but at the time of tapping in I thought that ALL passengers tapping in by contactless there would be charged the £25, and therefore in my mind I might as well get the HEx. I can see now how silly that was, and that it’s obvious that fares are determined by where you tap out rather than tap in! My only defence is that I was tired after a long day of travel, followed by a minor disagreement with the staff, so I wasn’t quite thinking straight! But I think I’ve got a grasp of it all now and while I believe I should have been allowed to proceed through the barriers, the rest I’m happy to accept is all on me.

(I’ve been meaning to get the Priv loaded onto an Oyster for a while but living a few hundred miles away from London, it’s never been enough of a priority to actually do it!)

 

[Watershed]

I was aware that the HEx would cost more, but at the time of tapping in I thought that ALL passengers tapping in by contactless there would be charged the £25, and therefore in my mind I might as well get the HEx. I can see now how silly that was, and that it’s obvious that fares are determined by where you tap out rather than tap in! My only defence is that I was tired after a long day of travel, followed by a minor disagreement with the staff, so I wasn’t quite thinking straight! But I think I’ve got a grasp of it all now and while I believe I should have been allowed to proceed through the barriers, the rest I’m happy to accept is all on me.

(I’ve been meaning to get the Priv loaded onto an Oyster for a while but living a few hundred miles away from London, it’s never been enough of a priority to actually do it!)

Ah, I see. Completely understand where you're coming from, having come through Heathrow off quite a few red-eye flights!

 

[matt_world2004]

The ticket machines issue free blue transfer tickets that will open the barriers you could have used this to get on the train and purchased the ticket you needed at the first available opportunity.

 

[trek]

My questions are - am I right that I should have been allowed to proceed through the barriers and pay at the first available opportunity, and if so can I request the difference back from HEx(/GWR)? I’ve never travelled from Heathrow before so I don’t know all the ins and outs and am happy to be told where I’m wrong on anything!

I've had to ask to go through a couple of times due to lack of ability to buy the ticket I want. Never had an issue, I just go straight to a barrier staff member (but I know to avoid the ticketing staff as they are somewhat notorious, unfortunately). If I was completely stuck the transfer tickets will open the barriers (hence it's ridiculous staff would kick up such a fuss!).

I would certainly complain to HeX given it wasn't unreasonable for you to expect to not have the issue and hopefully they will offer you something back.

As an aside, unless something has changed, on board staff for HeX can sell National Rail tickets to anywhere so had you been let through they should have been able to sell you the ticket a ticket too on board, albeit not the route you wanted. I'd also add MTR EL staff on the West side are generally very good about handling staff with PRIV in my experience and I have never faced any issues.

 

[TFN]

on board staff for HeX can sell National Rail tickets to anywhere

They can only sell HEX tickets between Paddington and Heathrow, albeit with any discount you want (PRIV included)

 

[trek]

They can only sell HEX tickets between Paddington and Heathrow, albeit with any discount you want (PRIV included)

Ah, guess something has changed

 

[RJ]

The age old problem of having staffed barriers at stations which can't issue the full range of tickets. Usually barrier staff let Priv holders through if they can't get a Priv ticket.

Do the staff Heathrow Express deploy to sell their tickets sell tickets for other trains? I wouldn't expect them to at all and wouldn't ever have advised anyone to make plans to buy other tickets from them.

The options here are to use TOD or sort it before travelling from Heathrow.

Out of curiosity, would a Heathrow to Honor Oak Park Priv ticket be available from the London Underground POMs? Perhaps @Mojo could advise?

 

[philthetube]

It is not just TFL staff who are guilty of this, try Waterloo East.

 

[trek]

Usually barrier staff let Priv holders through if they can't get a Priv ticket.

And indeed I have never had a problem on Western end of the Elizabeth line with this myself, including at Heathrow (always avoiding the ticket sellers completely, because they are somewhat notorious...)

It is not just TFL staff who are guilty of this, try Waterloo East.

On the other hand if you are asking to be let in there you are just trying it on, regardless of what "officially" should happen. The exception being if you are at the Southwark end (and therefore quite litterally stuck).

 

[Mojo]

Out of curiosity, would a Heathrow to Honor Oak Park Priv ticket be available from the London Underground POMs? Perhaps @Mojo could advise?

Yes it would but not at Priv rate, and this would also be expected to be used on the Piccadilly line from there.

 

[lawried123]

Whilst the staff did not act correctly (they should have let you through if they were unable to sell you the ticket you needed), equally you have exacerbated your losses by using the Heathrow Express when you were originally going to buy a 'not Heathrow Express' ticket. Unless your train happened to arrive at the 'wrong' Paddington platform?

I would submit a complaint to HEx but in future, to avoid hassle, I would simply buy the required ticket via RST Online and collect it at the ticket machine.

Can I ask what this RST Online thing is ? I get privs but there's no way I can get them either at ticket machine or online.

Lawrie

 

[CyrusWuff]

Can I ask what this RST Online thing is ? I get privs but there's no way I can get them either at ticket machine or online.

The long-mooted online booking site for staff travel. Sadly it's (currently) only available to Active and Retired TOC (and possibly Safeguarded Network Rail) staff, not TfL/London Underground ones.

 

[lawried123]

The long-mooted online booking site for staff travel. Sadly it's (currently) only available to Active and Retired TOC (and possibly Safeguarded Network Rail) staff, not TfL/London Underground ones.

Thanks, I'm TFL Retired so that would explain why I've heard nothing about it. Would certainly avoid the arguments I have at manned barriers where the ticket office is closed.

Lawrie

 

[paul1609]

It is not just TFL staff who are guilty of this, try Waterloo East.

Waterloo East main ticket barrier is in the main station is it reasonable to expect to buy tickets there when the ticket office is feet away?

 

[pitdiver]

Thanks, I'm TFL Retired so that would explain why I've heard nothing about it. Would certainly avoid the arguments I have at manned barriers where the ticket office is closed.

Lawrie

Do you not receive the pensioner's version of "OTM" It mentioned that we would be getting the facility sometime next spring.

 

[neilmc]

£25 to travel from Heathrow to Paddington these days?? Honestly I'm so ashamed to be British the way we try and fleece vulnerable visitors at the first point of entry.

 

[philthetube]

Waterloo East main ticket barrier is in the main station is it reasonable to expect to buy tickets there when the ticket office is feet away?

this depends on where you are trying to enter Waterloo East.

 

[paul1609]

this depends on where you are trying to enter Waterloo East.

Not really sure why youd expect tickets to be available at the back enterance from the tube or the side enterance from Sandell St tbh either.

 

[philthetube]

any person travelling on the tube who does not have the opportunity to buy a network rail ticket may want to.

 

[High Dyke]

In response to the OP, here's the extract from Rail Staff Travel regarding the use of Rail Staff Travel Leisure Cards (also known as Non-safeguarded travel).

Source: https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/files/Publications/services/rst/RST_Where_Can_I_Go_NSG_v20.pdf

 

[43066]

£25 to travel from Heathrow to Paddington these days?? Honestly I'm so ashamed to be British the way we try and fleece vulnerable visitors at the first point of entry.

This seems a bit OTT when you can do it for a few quid on the Tube if you wish. A black cab from Heathrow to central London could easily be a couple of hundred quid…

I’m also not sure people flying into Heathrow, many of whom will have come in on business class flights costing as much as a car, qualify as vulnerable! Of course many HEX customers will be able to expense the tickets back from their employer (as I did myself the only times I’ve used it). Pays your money, takes your choice.

 

[Watershed]

A black cab from Heathrow to central London could easily be a couple of hundred quid…

No it couldn't. Heathrow Airport's website reckons it would cost around £45-70.

I'm reminded of Lucille Bluth...