CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Jacob Porrett]

That's wildly different to what your post appeared to mean! Has one even shown up at all or was that a guess too?

Many don't have numbers but we've had 101-102 confirmed so the other 4 would make sense as 103-106.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

We've had 101-105 so 106 is what I'm assuming.

I mean this in the politest possible way, but where do you get your information from? Many of your posts sound well informed and formal as if you worked for the railway, while others (by stark contrast) seem to lack knowledge that would be understood by most basic enthusiasts? I never really know whether you’re posting confirmed information or something you’ve read on Twitter, so a little clarity might help because I’m getting hella confused here

 

[Esker-pades]

Any guesses for a realistic introduction date for 197s to South Wales and 175s leaving TfW? May timetable next year?

The Dec '23 timetable is when the Wales Mainline timetable recast is due to go live. I would expect it won't be until then that legacy rolling stock will be given up. Of course, you'll see 197s introduced before then, but that's the TT change being aimed for.

 

[berneyarms]

Many don't have numbers but we've had 101-102 confirmed so the other 4 would make sense as 103-106.

We all appreciate your observations at Donnington, but in the interests of keeping this completely factual, I really think you should only report exactly what you see.

If a set is un-numbered or you can’t see the number, then I would suggest that you report it as such. I certainly would not assume the numbering as sets can be built and delivered out of sequence.

 

[Liam L]

We all appreciate your observations at Donnington, but in the interests of keeping this completely factual, I really think you should only report exactly what you see.

If a set is un-numbered or you can’t see the number, then I would suggest that you report it as such. I certainly would not assume the numbering as sets can be built and delivered out of sequence.

Agreed. A lot of the units stored at Donnington are unnumbered so I’m unsure where the information on the unit numbers have come from.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I mean this in the politest possible way, but where do you get your information from? Many of your posts sound well informed and formal as if you worked for the railway, while others (by stark contrast) seem to lack knowledge that would be understood by most basic enthusiasts? I never really know whether you’re posting confirmed information or something you’ve read on Twitter, so a little clarity might help because I’m getting hella confused here

My own information buddy. All me nobody else is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2022 ==

Agreed. A lot of the units stored at Donnington are unnumbered so I’m unsure where the information on the unit numbers have come from.

From myself buddy. All me.

 

[Roger B]

My own information buddy. All me nobody else is.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Sep 2022 ==


From myself buddy. All me.

Thanks for clearing that up.

But it leaves the fundamental question open: are the unit numbers you're quoting confirmed by sight and/or official documentation, or are the numbers you're quoting assumptions - eg based upon expected order of delivery?

If the latter, then it's not unreasonable for people to be a tad sceptical - there's plenty of examples of units being delivered out of sequence.

 

[800001]

Thanks for clearing that up.

But it leaves the fundamental question open: are the unit numbers you're quoting confirmed by sight and/or official documentation, or are the numbers you're quoting assumptions - eg based upon expected order of delivery?

If the latter, then it's not unreasonable for people to be a tad sceptical - there's plenty of examples of units being delivered out of sequence.

From my own visits to Donnington, a few units do have numbers on front, but only one or two normally visible as they park them all in a line.

Some units I have seen had no visible numbers on front or on side of carriages.

 

[Geeves]

A friend of mine working for ROG just signed off the entire NW Coast route for CAF testing so presumably that means they are trying to speed things up. I'm not sure if ROG were already involved in testing.

 

[craigybagel]

A friend of mine working for ROG just signed off the entire NW Coast route for CAF testing so presumably that means they are trying to speed things up. I'm not sure if ROG were already involved in testing.

ROG have been involved for a while. They haven't been doing runs down the whole coast though AFAIK.

 

[Dai Corner]

ROG have been involved for a while. They haven't been doing runs down the whole coast though AFAIK.

Does this mean 197s are cleared all the way to Holyhead now? Or did the ROG drivers learn the route on some other traction?

 

[L401CJF]

Does this mean 197s are cleared all the way to Holyhead now? Or did the ROG drivers learn the route on some other traction?

I'm pretty certain 197s have reached Holyhead now, if I remember rightly there was a photo of one at Holyhead depot on internal tfw media.

Training and testing runs seem to be done between Junction and Crewe/Chester and Shrewsbury to Crewe, although at least one has made it to Bidston too.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Thanks for clearing that up.

But it leaves the fundamental question open: are the unit numbers you're quoting confirmed by sight and/or official documentation, or are the numbers you're quoting assumptions - eg based upon expected order of delivery?

If the latter, then it's not unreasonable for people to be a tad sceptical - there's plenty of examples of units being delivered out of sequence.

The 197/0s some have numbers and some I can't identify because they don't have numbers. I'm only guessing the 197/1s because we had 101 then 102 so I'm assuming they have come in order so on that basis I can't confirm if I'm right or wrong. The other 4 197/1 are unidentified

 

[craigybagel]

I'm pretty certain 197s have reached Holyhead now, if I remember rightly there was a photo of one at Holyhead depot on internal tfw media.

Training and testing runs seem to be done between Junction and Crewe/Chester and Shrewsbury to Crewe, although at least one has made it to Bidston too.

They have indeed made it to Holyhead, no issues there.

The regular training runs are Chester - Junction and Crewe - Shrewsbury. There are paths in the system for Blaneau - Holyhead as well but I'm not sure how often they're getting used.

Testing/mileage accumulation runs cover a bit more of the network.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

They have indeed made it to Holyhead, no issues there.

The regular training runs are Chester - Junction and Crewe - Shrewsbury. There are paths in the system for Blaneau - Holyhead as well but I'm not sure how often they're getting used.

Testing/mileage accumulation runs cover a bit more of the network.

Will they do any test any 197s from Shrewsbury to Birmingham International at all? I know some have done test to Wolverhampton in the past.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Will they do any test any 197s from Shrewsbury to Birmingham International at all? I know some have done test to Wolverhampton in the past.

It is inevitable that they will be tested on that stretch of line eventually, as they are set to work all Transport for Wales services on that route.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

It is inevitable that they will be tested on that stretch of line eventually, as they are set to work all Transport for Wales services on that route.

Ah right ok. Something for the near future then.

 

[Roger B]

The 197/0s some have numbers and some I can't identify because they don't have numbers. I'm only guessing the 197/1s because we had 101 then 102 so I'm assuming they have come in order so on that basis I can't confirm if I'm right or wrong. The other 4 197/1 are unidentifiedq11

Can we stop with this now please. It's old and not relevent to the conversation.

1. Seems like the accuracy / source of your posts is very much a current issue.
2. And the conversation is about the accuracy / source of your posts - so spot on for relevence.

Best way to stop this is to start:
1. Acknowledging / crediting sources when you copy info.
2. Making it clear when what you're reporting is based upon assumptions/guesswork, rather than evidence.

Subject closed

 

[Liam L]

Will they do any test any 197s from Shrewsbury to Birmingham International at all? I know some have done test to Wolverhampton in the past.

I would guess for signal sighting and route clearance at somepoint yes.

 

[berneyarms]

The 197/0s some have numbers and some I can't identify because they don't have numbers. I'm only guessing the 197/1s because we had 101 then 102 so I'm assuming they have come in order so on that basis I can't confirm if I'm right or wrong. The other 4 197/1 are unidentifiedq11

So what units can you definitely confirm are at Donnington and how many are there that are un-numbered or you cannot see the number?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Ah right ok. Something for the near future then.

The focus seems very much to be on solely North Wales services initially, such as Manchester Llandudno, Liverpool Chester, Bidston Wrexham and Llandudno Blaenau Ffestiniog, to allow for a targetted yet robust introduction with plenty of drivers all trained up to drive them in a certain area.

When the fleet has been solidly introduced on these routes, we’re likely to then see them spread out onto Holyhead - Birmingham/Cardiff, Manchester - West Wales, etc, as by then, other crews will be learning them.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I would guess for signal sighting and route clearance at somepoint yes.

Ah right ok. Something for the near future then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==

So what units can you definitely confirm are at Donnington and how many are there that are un-numbered or you cannot see the number?

The list on facebook I haven't updated and the list on my phone I no longer have (which was updated) because I snapped my phone in half yesterday evening. The units with numbers are 012/013/018/021. The others have no numbers but I have assumed so I won't put those in here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==

The focus seems very much to be on solely North Wales services initially, such as Manchester Llandudno, Liverpool Chester, Bidston Wrexham and Llandudno Blaenau Ffestiniog, to allow for a targetted yet robust introduction with plenty of drivers all trained up to drive them in a certain area.

When the fleet has been solidly introduced on these routes, we’re likely to then see them spread out onto Holyhead - Birmingham/Cardiff, Manchester - West Wales, etc, as by then, other crews will be learning them.

Fair enough. Makes scenes.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

They have indeed made it to Holyhead, no issues there.

The regular training runs are Chester - Junction and Crewe - Shrewsbury. There are paths in the system for Blaneau - Holyhead as well but I'm not sure how often they're getting used.

Testing/mileage accumulation runs cover a bit more of the network.

I know there's a one a day return path in the system for Crewe - Hereford, 3V78 and 3W98, but they are cancelled today. Hoping they run tomorrow so I can go and catch them.

 

[Doveymain158]

I know there's a one a day return path in the system for Crewe - Hereford, 3V78 and 3W98, but they are cancelled today. Hoping they run tomorrow so I can go and catch them.

I think 3V78 and 3W98 are they loco & MK4 training path unless im wrong

 

[sd0733]

I know there's a one a day return path in the system for Crewe - Hereford, 3V78 and 3W98, but they are cancelled today. Hoping they run tomorrow so I can go and catch them.

Those are Mk4 training paths and are extremely unlikely to be used anytime soon.

 

[berneyarms]

The units with numbers are 012/013/018/021.

Thank you!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Those are Mk4 training paths and are extremely unlikely to be used anytime soon.

Ah ok thanks I thought they were for 197s. Could they be used for 197s if the need arises?

 

[sd0733]

it

Ah ok thanks I thought they were for 197s. Could they be used for 197s if the need arises?

In theory nothing to stop it being used but I presume they'll just put new paths as there's no real need for a 197 to go via Chester.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

it
In theory nothing to stop it being used but I presume they'll just put new paths as there's no real need for a 197 to go via Chester.

I was indeed wondering why that happened! Now I know why. Many thanks.

 

[craigybagel]

Ah ok thanks I thought they were for 197s. Could they be used for 197s if the need arises?

The only drivers depot that signs the whole journey is Crewe, and the training run they've been using of 6 Crewe - Shrewsbury round trips over 2 days already fits perfectly. So it's not much use really.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==

The focus seems very much to be on solely North Wales services initially, such as Manchester Llandudno, Liverpool Chester, Bidston Wrexham and Llandudno Blaenau Ffestiniog, to allow for a targetted yet robust introduction with plenty of drivers all trained up to drive them in a certain area.

When the fleet has been solidly introduced on these routes, we’re likely to then see them spread out onto Holyhead - Birmingham/Cardiff, Manchester - West Wales, etc, as by then, other crews will be learning them.

Introducing 197s on Birmingham services is likely to require either a Big Bang scenario where most diagrams change over at once, or a fairly hefty rewrite of the timetable, so I suspect we'll see Manchester & Holyhead to South Wales before Birmingham. Those diagrams are a lot more self contained.