Virgin Saturday All Zones Railcard (2)

[supervalkoinen]

I've bought a few of these for travel this spring. (Chester-Euston)
My query is:
How do I know which trains they are valid for on return leg?
At the time of booking, website displays various return options, but there doesn't seem any consistency in these from week to week.
Some returns seem to be valid change at Crewe one week, but not the next.
However, nothing on the tickets to indicate which are OK.
Any help appreciated.

 

[north]

I've bought a few of these for travel this spring. (Chester-Euston)
My query is:
How do I know which trains they are valid for on return leg?
At the time of booking, website displays various return options, but there doesn't seem any consistency in these from week to week.
Some returns seem to be valid change at Crewe one week, but not the next.
However, nothing on the tickets to indicate which are OK.
Any help appreciated.

Any Virgin train on a valid route back AFAIK

 

[Ticket Man]

the virgin trains only saturday travelcard (Super off peak travel card) requires you to book a seat reservation on your out ward journey (not that a guard would ask to see it if you showed them the travel card) but you are able to take any service back

If you change at crewe you will have to wait for the virgin 221 half an hour behind to pick you up as you can't use it for any other service than one with the big V on the side

 

[swt_passenger]

I've bought a few of these for travel this spring. (Chester-Euston)
My query is:
How do I know which trains they are valid for on return leg?
At the time of booking, website displays various return options, but there doesn't seem any consistency in these from week to week.

Variation from week to week on the planner could easily be the normal randomness of Saturday engineering works, I think.

 

[RJ]

(not that a guard would ask to see it if you showed them the travel card)

Are you sure?

 

[Polarbear]

Travelling from Chester, it becomes an issue when your last direct train from London on a Saturday is the 18:10 ex Euston.

I've come across a similar situation with booking these tickets. The T&C's of the ticket specify that their use is restricted to Virgin Trains only. However, when using on-line booking websites, connections are often advertised (and are bookable) by use of ATW services between Crewe & Chester.

Question is, if you book a later return train, print off the relevant information from the website used to buy the ticket (confirming relevant reservations), what action could be taken by the "non-Virgin" operator? If the ticket is not valid on services provided by operators other than Virgin, surely these should be excluded from any search on the various websites.

 

[Ticket Man]

Are you sure?

well not sure to the point that I could guarantee it but mostly, if you showed me that ticket and you were on route at a valid time I sure wouldn't ask for one. How would I even know you are on your outward journey, its a travel card?????

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The travelcard bit is only in London, the bit between Chester (or wherever) and Zone 6 is a return ticket only.

 

[Ticket Man]

The travelcard bit is only in London, the bit between Chester (or wherever) and Zone 6 is a return ticket only.

so if i brought a travel card to say for example milton keynes to all zones, i could only make that trip to london and back once?

 

[MikeWh]

so if i brought a travel card to say for example milton keynes to all zones, i could only make that trip to london and back once?

Yes, it's a return from Milton Keynes to the boundary of zone 6, then unlimited travel within zones 1-6.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

On the travelcard tickets which are marked Virgin Trains only, you obviously would have to journey all the way to London Euston, before you can then use the Travelcard part of the ticket in the usual way, given that you have to travel on the VT train for which you have to have a compulsory reservation for (on the way Southbound from Chester, Preston, Manchester Piccadilly or wherever).

On the way back, my understanding is that you can travel on any Virgin Trains service, back to the origin station, necessarily, this will have to be Northbound from London Euston, and also it has to be on the same Saturday.

In between times, you have the use of a one day Zones 1-6 Travelcard.

Can anyone advise whether Break of Journey is permitted on the return leg? (Obviously, any BoJ would presumably have to be from one Virgin Train to another, unless anyone knows otherwise).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Can anyone advise whether Break of Journey is permitted on the return leg? (Obviously, any BoJ would presumably have to be from one Virgin Train to another, unless anyone knows otherwise).

No, it is not.

 

[RJ]

well not sure to the point that I could guarantee it but mostly, if you showed me that ticket and you were on route at a valid time I sure wouldn't ask for one. How would I even know you are on your outward journey, its a travel card?????

So you've never come across an outboundary Travelcard before? The VT Train Managers (and the passengers) will be aware that a reservation is compulsory out the outbound so I wouldn't be surprise if the TM did request to see it.

 

[clagmonster]

Question is, if you book a later return train, print off the relevant information from the website used to buy the ticket (confirming relevant reservations), what action could be taken by the "non-Virgin" operator? If the ticket is not valid on services provided by operators other than Virgin, surely these should be excluded from any search on the various websites.

I suspect it is a mistake in the journey planner programming.
If you could produce a booking confirmation/seat reservation showing a non-Virgin connecting train, I would imagine that the guard would withdraw the ticket, issue a zero fare ticket for the journey and complete a ticket irregularity report (TIR) for the connecting train operator to claim the outstanding fare from the ticket issuing company.
Alternatively, I suspect they would be entitled to charge for a new full fare ticket for the journey being made under conditions 2 and 10 of the NRCoC, but the former has been indicated by guards on here in similar instances.

 

[EltonRoad]

If you could produce a booking confirmation/seat reservation showing a non-Virgin connecting train ... Alternatively, I suspect they would be entitled to charge for a new full fare ticket for the journey being made under conditions 2 and 10 of the NRCoC, but the former has been indicated by guards on here in similar instances.

I wouldn't be too pleased if that happened to me. If you've got a computer printout and a seat reservation on a non-Virgin connecting train, that to my mind trumps the "route VT only" on the ticket. Why, then, is it being sold if it isn't valid?

 

[clagmonster]

If that did happen, I suspect that you would be in a very strong position to claim from the ticket issuing company. As I have said previously, I suspect by far the most likely outcome would be a TIR.

 

[supervalkoinen]

Thanks for all the replies.
Unfortunately, nothing seems any clearer. So here are a few more details:

I booked Sat Day Travelcards on London Midland site.
When you request that fare, it displays a series of valid outward times (compulsory booking) and a series of valid return times (optional booking).

At least 2 issues here:
Some of the advertised valid return times are those requiring a change to ATW at Crewe. This seems to contradict the terms of the ticket as a Virgin fare.
Also there is no consistency in which return times are valid. So, for example, the 1840 ex-Euston appears as valid for one Saturday, but not the following one.
In addition, these valid times change for the same date - e.g. at the time of booking a ticket the 1840 is valid, but checking the site a week later, it is invalid for the same day.
As none of this validity info is recorded on ticket or in the booking, the passenger has no way of knowing when it is OK to travel.

Interestingly, although this is described as a Virgin fare, I can find no mention of it on the Virgin website!
Help.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I suspect the first issue is to do with the routeing.

Chester - London Zones 1-6 is 'rte AP Rugby' (Despite the validity code saying it is routed otherwise) rather than 'Rte Virgin Trains Only' that all the others are. As a consequence the website is offering them on other services as the 'Virgin Trains Only' part is unenforceable (it needs to be shown on the ticket).

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Can't seem to book this on Virgin webiste as all zones travelcard doesnt come up as option (unlike on the LM site!)