Cranbrook to High Wycombe - routing question

[Class800]

Good morning ladies and gentlemen,

I've been looking into the routing permutations for Cranbrook to High Wycombe (off peak single).

National Rail Enquiries suggests the following as among the valid options:

• Cranbrook - Exeter St Davids - London Paddington - Marylebone - High Wycombe (interesting as this route via Exeter is not permitted on some other London flows as fails fares check at Exeter St Davids)
• Cranbrook - Basingstoke - Reading - London Paddington - Marylebone - High Wycombe
• Cranbrook - Basingstoke - Reading - Banbury - High Wycombe
• Cranbrook - London Waterloo - High Wycombe

There may be further permutations, but unless I have omitted of one the two or three fastest routes, the route I will be taking is one of the above.

The ticket is routed 'via London +'. I struggle to see how the via Banbury route would be permitted on this ticket?

The issue on which I would really appreciate a second opinion relates to my Network Railcard. Does applying the Railcard to the ticket constrain the routes permitted by the ticket versus the usual set of permitted routes? My understanding is route 1 above - which is the one most commonly used on the journey planner goes outside the Network Railcard area on route but not in its origin or destination. I'm not certain whether it would be valid this route.

 

[Haywain]

Tickets issued with a Network Railcard discount are only valid for travel entirely within the Network Railcard area.

 

[Class800]

Thanks. That would mean if the Paddington route is used at all, joining it at Reading. Anyone have a view on the Banbury route? It's within the Network Railcard zone - it's just if it's a permitted route on a Via London ticket.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks. That would mean if the Paddington route is used at all, joining it at Reading. Anyone have a view on the Banbury route? It's within the Network Railcard zone - it's just if it's a permitted route on a Via London ticket.

If NRE says it's valid, it's valid. But that said, I think you could encounter some 'hassle' if you were checked between Oxford and Banbury, or Banbury and Haddenham & Thame Parkway, or if you tried to break your journey in Banbury.

 

[Class800]

If it's a potentially awkward route, I don't see any reason for me to prefer that route, it's not faster. The options given Network Railcard constraints seem to be Cranbrook - Basingstoke - Reading - Paddington - Marylebone - High Wycombe or Cranbrook - London Waterloo - Marylebone - High Wycombe. I will check times.

 

[Watershed]

If it's a potentially awkward route, I don't see any reason for me to prefer that route, it's not faster. The options given Network Railcard constraints seem to be Cranbrook - Basingstoke - Reading - Paddington - Marylebone - High Wycombe or Cranbrook - London Waterloo - Marylebone - High Wycombe. I will check times.

Without the complicating factor of the Network Railcard, I would have said another permitted route would be Cranbrook - Yeovil Junction - Yeovil Pen Mill - Castle Cary/Westbury - Reading - Oxford - High Wycombe - this is within 3 miles of the shortest route. The presence of the 'via London' route restriction does however throw another spanner in the works, and given the paucity of Yeovil Junction-PM trains, it would also be unlikely to be a worthwhile option.

 

[Class800]

I'm inclined just to go via Waterloo - but will check timetables and see if much to be gained via Basingstoke, Reading - don't expect there will be

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm inclined just to go via Waterloo - but will check timetables and see if much to be gained via Basingstoke, Reading - don't expect there will be

I think the problem is even though the fastest time for Basingstoke to Paddington is reasonably similar to Basingstoke to Waterloo the change to GWR or XC at Basingstoke will just take too long.

 

[Class800]

I think the problem is even though the fastest time for Basingstoke to Paddington is reasonably similar to Basingstoke to Waterloo the change to GWR or XC at Basingstoke will just take too long.

I'll check it out though - as Paddington to Marylebone is a short walk whereas Waterloo to Marylebone is a tube journey.

 

[Alfonso]

I'll check it out though - as Paddington to Marylebone is a short walk whereas Waterloo to Marylebone is a tube journey.

If you have the time and the physical ability and don't have much luggage then Waterloo to Marylebone can be a very pleasant walk mostly through the royal parks.

 

[sonic2009]

Is there any need to go via Banbury - when you go via Oxford & Bicester Village?

 

[wibble]

If it's a potentially awkward route, I don't see any reason for me to prefer that route, it's not faster. The options given Network Railcard constraints seem to be Cranbrook - Basingstoke - Reading - Paddington - Marylebone - High Wycombe or Cranbrook - London Waterloo - Marylebone - High Wycombe. I will check times.

When are you travelling? SWR have an emergency timetable in place on their Exeter services from Monday at least until October. It's a 2-hourly between to/from Exeter and the journey's extended by an hour. (3.5hrs Exeter - Basingstoke where it's usually 2.5hrs). They've loaded the timetable for Mon-Fri next week, but the "normal" timetable is showing from Sat 10 Sept as it's not been updated.

Planned Improvements & Engineering Works | South Western Railway

Get information on our planned engineering works and rail network improvement information.

www.southwesternrailway.com

 

[Julia1985]

Tickets issued with a Network Railcard discount are only valid for travel entirely within the Network Railcard area.

That extends down to Exeter St Davids on the Waterloo line (so includes Cranbrook)

 

[JB_B]

@Class800 , just going back to your original post ( because it might be an interesting issue with NRE and I think you're correct to note that it shouldn't be valid.)

Good morning ladies and gentlemen,

I've been looking into the routing permutations for Cranbrook to High Wycombe (off peak single).

National Rail Enquiries suggests the following as among the valid options: .....

• Cranbrook - Basingstoke - Reading - Banbury - High Wycombe ....

It would be helpful to know:-

Which date/time was this for?
Did you need to specify any via points?
Can you still reproduce that result on NRE?

 

[Haywain]

That extends down to Exeter St Davids on the Waterloo line (so includes Cranbrook)

I know but from the first post it was clear that a question was being asked which I answered.

 

[Class800]

That extends down to Exeter St Davids on the Waterloo line (so includes Cranbrook)

Yes but not going from Cranbrook to Exeter St Davids and then onto the Paddington route from there

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2022 ==

@Class800 , just going back to your original post ( because it might be an interesting issue with NRE and I think you're correct to note that it shouldn't be valid.)



It would be helpful to know:-

Which date/time was this for?
Did you need to specify any via points?
Can you still reproduce that result on NRE?

10th Sept
No via points
Bit short of time, but it did show up earlier today - I didn't do a check it was same ticket, but I only remember seeing one price show.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2022 ==

When are you travelling? SWR have an emergency timetable in place on their Exeter services from Monday at least until October. It's a 2-hourly between to/from Exeter and the journey's extended by an hour. (3.5hrs Exeter - Basingstoke where it's usually 2.5hrs). They've loaded the timetable for Mon-Fri next week, but the "normal" timetable is showing from Sat 10 Sept as it's not been updated.

Planned Improvements & Engineering Works | South Western Railway

Get information on our planned engineering works and rail network improvement information.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Not great news - nothing I can do about it. I'll keep an eye out for any special agreements on routing, as there have been some in past when there's disruption on this route, such as allowing Paddington routing. That routing is allowed on ticket, but seemingly not with the railcard. One interesting learning outcome from this thread for me is that a ticket with a railcard can be valid on some routings valid with that ticket but not other routings.

 

[JB_B]

10th Sept
No via points
Bit short of time, but it did show up earlier today - I didn't do a check it was same ticket, but I only remember seeing one price show.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2022 ==

Thanks for that.

I wasn't able to replicate this result but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. At first sight a least two things would need to go wrong for NRE to offer that ticket for a journey via Banbury (but of course, if it is a planner bug, then the bug could cut across multiple constraints.)

Noting:-

(A) Routeing points are {Salisbury,Exeter Group} x {Princess Risborough,South Ruislip}; of those only Salisbury-South Ruislip passes the fares check. That only gives mapped routes to London and then from London to High Wycombe on map GC.

(B) Route 00200 Via London requires you to include London in the journey.

(C) The shortest route by rail doesn't go via Banbury ( nor those within 3m of shortest).

(D) There are no relevant easements.

[If you ignore the fares check then there are mapped routes via Banbury but you'd still be be caught by (B) - some of those routes would also take you out of the Network Card Area. ]

 

[kieron]

Not great news - nothing I can do about it. I'll keep an eye out for any special agreements on routing, as there have been some in past when there's disruption on this route, such as allowing Paddington routing.

Unless you need to have that specific ticket, I would look at more flexible alternatives.

One thing which may work for you would be to buy tickets to Bourne End, and make your way to your actual destination from there. A Cranbrook-Bourne End ticket wouldn't be valid via Exeter, but a Cranbrook-Burnham one would be, and costs £57.20 without a railcard (with restriction T6). A Maidenhead-Bourne End journey costs £2.20 with a contactless card off peak.

If Bourne End isn't convenient for you, then there are probably other options which would be; the Cranbrook-High Wycombe off peak day single isn't especially cheap, even with a railcard.