Withdrawal of Advance tickets

[158801]

I believe it was in the early 1990's that BR introduced what we now call Advance Tickets.

Originally they were a way to fill seats that would otherwise be empty. Now it not uncommon to see them on peak hour trains that may well be full and standing.

For many Sundays transpennine express haven't had a quota of Advance tickets on their trains - yet, the trains that do run, are well patronised.

If all of the railway companies where to withdraw their advance tickets tomorrow how much business would be lost ?

Would people still travel but pay the higher fare?

Obviously there may be fewer people in total but would the people who still travel contribute more to the gate box overall than having loads of Advance tickets with people paying what can sometimes be very cheap fares

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are a useful tool for spreading loadings. XC more or less have abolished them at the moment, and as a result are seeing some trains quite badly overcrowded.

Some are misused as a means of TOCs getting all the revenue, priced only just below a flexible ticket. Those ones should indeed be binned.

 

[SargeNpton]

BR had a form of advance purchase ticket in the 1970s. Had to be purchased 7 days in advance but I can't remember the exact validity of it.

Pretty sure that outward and return travel dates had to be specifed, but not the times of the trains.

It wasn't particularly well advertised and so there wasn't a great deal of take up of it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It wasn't particularly well advertised and so there wasn't a great deal of take up of it.

It (or its later iteration as APEX and SuperAPEX) had to be available on outward and return trains. Don't think I ever managed to get one! There was also the non-quota-controlled* Advance Saver and SuperAdvance which gave you a few quid off the Saver/SuperSaver by specifying trains and booking a certain time ahead which I did use a few times.

The big, big difference was the faff of going to a station to book one. Much easier now.

* If I recall the only limits on issue of these was the number of reservable seats.

 

[SargeNpton]

It (or its later iteration as APEX and SuperAPEX) had to be available on outward and return trains. Don't think I ever managed to get one! There was also the non-quota-controlled* Advance Saver and SuperAdvance which gave you a few quid off the Saver/SuperSaver by specifying trains and booking a certain time ahead which I did use a few times.

The big, big difference was the faff of going to a station to book one. Much easier now.

* If I recall the only limits on issue of these was the number of reservable seats.

What I am referring to predates APEX tickets, and probably was then withdrawn when APEX went on to be a nationwide scheme. My recollection is that there were no quotas; you just had to buy it at least 7 days before the date of outward travel.

 

[cslusarc]

I can see a potential to remove advance tickets from the busiest parts of the National rail network. For example on the West Coast Mainline the removal of advance tickets for journeys that include portions inwards from Watford Junction to London and beyond.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can see a potential to remove advance tickets from the busiest parts of the National rail network. For example on the West Coast Mainline the removal of advance tickets for journeys that include portions inwards from Watford Junction to London and beyond.

There are no Advances from Watford to Euston. There are from MKC but hardly anyone uses them, the default is a Travelcard for most people.

 

[XAM2175]

Originally they were a way to fill seats that would otherwise be empty. Now it not uncommon to see them on peak hour trains that may well be full and standing.

For many Sundays transpennine express haven't had a quota of Advance tickets on their trains - yet, the trains that do run, are well patronised.

If all of the railway companies where to withdraw their advance tickets tomorrow how much business would be lost ?

So what about the seats that would still otherwise be empty today?

 

[JonathanH]

If all of the railway companies where to withdraw their advance tickets tomorrow how much business would be lost ?

Would people still travel but pay the higher fare?

The railways would much rather remove the walk up tickets and sell the advances at a higher price.

 

[david1212]

Originally they were a way to fill seats that would otherwise be empty.

They are a useful tool for spreading loadings.

This is how they still should be used. With all the data available now for both regular train usage patterns and when events e.g. concerts, sports fixtures algorithms ought to be able to set the allocations so trains are very rarely both over capacity and carrying advance fare passengers.

Some are misused as a means of TOCs getting all the revenue, priced only just below a flexible ticket. Those ones should indeed be binned.

I agree together with being able to buy an advance minutes before departure.

Advances should just be a counted place never a reserved specific seat.

The railways would much rather remove the walk up tickets and sell the advances at a higher price.

Which totally goes against providing a walk-on public service so spontaneous travellers will use the car which goes against trying to cut car usage.

There is a case for booked tickets only to limit gross overcrowding on medium and long distance services but as a proportion of all services the number this applies to is small. All the booked tickets should be full fare though.

 

[JonathanH]

Which totally goes against providing a walk-on public service so spontaneous travellers will use the car which goes against trying to cut car usage.

Just as not offering advance fares at some level of discount to the full fare might also do.

 

[XAM2175]

Advances should just be a counted place never a reserved specific seat.

This is a legacy of how British Rail implemented them - it was easier for them to issue a reservation, and make the ticket invalid without it, than it was for them to develop a separate means of tying a ticket to a specific train.

It's notably different on much of the continent, where basic advance tickets are bought as counted places and there's an extra fee for reserving a specific seat.

 

[david1212]

This is a legacy of how British Rail implemented them - it was easier for them to issue a reservation, and make the ticket invalid without it, than it was for them to develop a separate means of tying a ticket to a specific train.

It's notably different on much of the continent, where basic advance tickets are bought as counted places and there's an extra fee for reserving a specific seat.

Given IT system technology at the time the initial implementation by BR was reasonable, the failure is that it has never been changed.

Charging for a specific seat reservation with an advance ticket but not with full fare for the journey ( by that I mean Anytime, Off-peak, or Super Off-Peak depending on the day and time ) would be reasonable.