Which Franchise Has Changed Hands The Most?

[Doomotron]

Out of the franchises at the start of privatisation, very few have remained to this day.

As far as I know the two TOCs that have lasted from the start of privatisation to the current day, where franchising is effectively over in the way we've known it for over twenty years, and those are Chiltern, C2C and the many names of GWR.

However something I see much less often is which franchise has changed hands the most over this time period.

This obviously includes the franchise getting let to another company, but I'd also extend it to include franchises that are modified, merged or split and have a new operator afterwards (such as the massive franchise tidy in the mid-2000s that got rid of First North Western and Central, among others, where boundaries were significantly altered for the subsequent franchises) and when a franchise is re-let to one of the owning companies but not all, like what happened with First/Keolis TPE and First's own TPE franchise.

 

[plugwash]

The east coast mainline must be up there with 5 different operators (two of which were government last resort operations).

 

[thenorthern]

The South Wales/Valley Lines I think has changed 5 times. Wales and West/Valley Lines, Wales and Borders, Arriva Trains Wales, KeolisAmey, Welsh Government. Same with the North Wales and Mid Wales although they started with First North Western and Central Trains respectively.

Great Western Railway, C2C and Chiltern are the only ones remaining ones that could be described as the "original" ones from Privatisation still running although all of them have had ownership changes over time.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The South Wales/Valley Lines I think has changed 5 times. Wales and West/Valley Lines, Wales and Borders, Arriva Trains Wales, KeolisAmey, Welsh Government. Same with the North Wales and Mid Wales although they started with First North Western and Central Trains respectively.

Great Western Railway, C2C and Chiltern are the only ones remaining ones that could be described as the "original" ones from Privatisation still running although all of them have had ownership changes over time.

Right at the beginning were Cardiff Railway Co (which traded as Valley Lines for Prism), and North Western Trains (owned by Great Western Trains when it was a BR management buy-out, before First took control and formed FNW/FGW).
Cardiff Railway Co was the vehicle that became the Wales & Borders franchise in 2003 (branded Arriva Trains Wales).

 

[WizCastro197]

Although not listed as an ‘Original’ Southern has not changed hands to many times, Govia has operated the South Central Franchise since 2003 and only before that tou had Connex SC and if you count Network SC but These franchises only lasted for a couple years. How Govia has managed to retain the GTR is a mystery to everyone who lives by it.


East Coast as aformentioned has changed quite a bit however,

GNER
NXEC (National Express)
East Coast
Virgin Trains East Coast
LNER

Yes 5 the longest survived I believe is GNER as most haven’t past the 5 year mark

 

[DanNCL]

Ones with five operators:
ECML:
GNER > National Express East Coast > East Coast > Virgin Trains East Coast > LNER

South Wales:
Valley Lines/Wales & West > Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

Ones with 4 operators:
Northern:
Arriva Trains Northern/First North Western > Northern Rail > Arriva Trains Northern > Northern Trains

ScotRail:
ScotRail (National Express) > First ScotRail > ScotRail (Abellio) > ScotRail (Nationalised)

North Wales:
First North Western > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (nationalised)

Southeastern:
Connex South Eastern > Southeastern (first OLR) > Southeastern (Govia) > Southeastern (second OLR)

Paddington-Reading stoppers:
Thames Trains > First Great Western Link > First Great Western/GWR > TFL Rail/Elizabeth Line

Shenfield Metro:
First Great Eastern > One/National Express East Anglia > Greater Anglia > TFL Rail/Elizabeth Line

Lea Valley Lines:
WAGN > One/National Express East Anglia > Greater Anglia > London Overground

 

[haggishunter]

Is there an argument for ScotRail to count as 5 as it operated the last ever BR era train, having operated as a shadow franchise into 1997, by which time everything else had been privatised?

 

[pdeaves]

South Wales:
Valley Lines/Wales & West > Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

Valley Lines was not the same as Wales & West. They were separate companies that both happened to pass to National Express on privatisation. Valley Lines (trading name)/Cardiff Railway Co (legal name) became Wales & Borders. So more correctly you should put

Valleys:
Valley Lines/Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

Rest of South Wales:
Wales & West > Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

In all cases (not just S Wales), it depends a bit on whether you look at legal names, trading names, shareholding, etc. Virgin Trains East Coast was legally East Coast Main Line Company, the same as its predecessor just with different shareholding.

 

[DanNCL]

Valley Lines was not the same as Wales & West. They were separate companies that both happened to pass to National Express on privatisation. Valley Lines (trading name)/Cardiff Railway Co (legal name) became Wales & Borders. So more correctly you should put

Valleys:
Valley Lines/Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

Rest of South Wales:
Wales & West > Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

In the case of Valley Lines/Wales & Borders I wrote it that way to show that it had been one TOC or the other depending on route rather than both TOCs.

Wales & Borders though a continuation of Cardiff Railway Co was considered to be a new TOC by the DFT rather than an extension and renaming of Valley Lines. If we’re excluding cases where the legal company didn’t change then East Coast and VTEC would also count as just one operator and I think the majority of us would agree that they most definitely weren’t.

 

[tbtc]

Not a record breaker but the Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh service went from Cross Country to West Coast to First/ Keolis to First (and has seen huge improvements along the way)

Valley Lines was not the same as Wales & West. They were separate companies that both happened to pass to National Express on privatisation

National Express has nothing to do with these at privatisation; the two Welsh franchises were both run by PRISM (alongside WAGN and LTS)

It was only in 2000 when National Express got involved, and it’sa good thing that they did because PRISM were pretty useless, swapping Welsh 150s with Northern Spirit’s 142s to save money

 

[Watershed]

Valley Lines was not the same as Wales & West. They were separate companies that both happened to pass to National Express on privatisation. Valley Lines (trading name)/Cardiff Railway Co (legal name) became Wales & Borders. So more correctly you should put

Valleys:
Valley Lines/Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

Rest of South Wales:
Wales & West > Wales & Borders > Arriva Trains Wales > TFW (Keolis) > TFW (Nationalised)

There were some services and stations around north east Wales, e.g. Wrexham-Bidston, which went:

North West Trains/FNW > Cardiff Railway Company > ATW > TfW (Keolis) > TfW (Nationalised)

So have also changed ownership five times - although they never formed a full franchise, just part of one.

 

[Snow1964]

Great Western Railway, C2C and Chiltern are the only ones remaining ones that could be described as the "original" ones from Privatisation still running although all of them have had ownership changes over time.

GWR is not the same as the original franchise, as it has effectively been a reorganisation, taking over part of Wessex Trains franchise (which was originally Wales and West franchise), the other part going to Wales and Borders. It also took over Thames Valley trains. So depending on your definition each of these changes could be a change over the years.

 

[pdeaves]

National Express has nothing to do with these at privatisation; the two Welsh franchises were both run by PRISM (alongside WAGN and LTS)

Quite right, I jumped a step in my mind, sorry!

 

[class 9]

Ones with 4 operators:
Northern:
Arriva Trains Northern/First North Western > Northern Rail > Arriva Trains Northern > Northern Trains

It's 5, you forgot MTL(Northern Spirit) first.

 

[CE142]

'Northern' was originally North Western Trains before First Group took over and renamed it First North Western. Both side of Northern have had 5 different owners. None of whom have been any good!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

GWR is not the same as the original franchise, as it has effectively been a reorganisation, taking over part of Wessex Trains franchise (which was originally Wales and West franchise), the other part going to Wales and Borders. It also took over Thames Valley trains. So depending on your definition each of these changes could be a change over the years.

Also a change of ownership in the early years of privatisation for the inter-city part. Initially Great Western Holdings (a joint venture involving First and a consortium of ex-BR management along with a few others) won the franchise along with that of RRNW. FirstGroup took 100% ownership of Great Western Holdings in 1998.

 

[Geeves]

During the Northern rail franchise there was a period where Serco had given up their role and it was just Abelio on their own, not sure if that counts on the owners count

 

[DanNCL]

Ones with 4 operators:
Northern:
Arriva Trains Northern/First North Western > Northern Rail > Arriva Trains Northern > Northern Trains

It's 5, you forgot MTL(Northern Spirit) first.

Northern Spirit was purchased from MTL and rebranded as Arriva Trains Northern so the two were the same TOC.

 

[class 9]

Northern Spirit was purchased from MTL and rebranded as Arriva Trains Northern so the two were the same TOC.

Not quite right, Arriva bought MTL mainly for the bus operations in Liverpool, but it included the rail franchise as well.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not quite right, Arriva bought MTL mainly for the bus operations in Liverpool, but it included the rail franchise as well.

MTL however was only available for purchase (and at a knock-down price) because the group as a whole had entered administration.

 

[JaJaWa]

During the Northern rail franchise there was a period where Serco had given up their role and it was just Abelio on their own, not sure if that counts on the owners count

It passed from Serco-Abellio to Arriva (2016–2020).

 

[WizCastro197]

Southeastern has a few operators

DfT
Govia
DfT
Connex