East West Rail: Bedford - Cambridge will it ever get built?

[zwk500]

Its laughable because homes are already being built in huge numbers.

And the road network in this area is not yet at breaking point, but feeling the pinch (I used to drive from MK to Bedford fairly often up until a few months ago). Hence new housing will put too much strain on it, and therefore the rail link is necessary.

If homes are pencilled in along the route, especially near the Bedford area. I guess Bedford Midland is the catchment station for all these new homes? lol. At this rate Bedford Midland will need a car park fit for Disney world.

Wixams station is being built on the MML to take some of the load.

 

[InTheEastMids]

This is major house building across this arc, or no railway.

Knowing what I know about this country, getting the housebuilding without the railway is a perfectly plausible outcome.

 

[richieb1971]

My goodness - only realised this now?

Why deceiving and disgusting - a new railway is not going to be built to emulate the bucolic branch line of old. EWR are not doing the house building. There is not going to be enough trade just from Oxford, Bedford, Milton Keynes and Cambridge to justify spending the hundreds of millions on a new line . This is major house building across this arc, or no railway.

I was blinded by my own illusion of what makes the best alignment for the railways sake. I've always wanted an EWR that provides connections to the major stations and destinations, but also does that in a way that the new line has flexibility. The current EWR model had none of that. Just a straight path from A-Z, 2 lines, no loops, no depots, nothing else of note. Then with all the disruption around Bedford to make route E work I just thought its not worth it. A minimalistic approach to a railway that caters for the most of basic needs that creates disruption that needn't be there just didn't sit well with me.

But alas, homes. There it is. EWR is not the best railway it can be, it is the best railway it can be with predetermined requirements to support it. In other words it needs to be an arranged marriage. Well I believe EWR makes a sacrifice for that marriage with the collateral damage that goes with it (disruption, homes being knocked down etc).

And yes, I did just realize all of this. But to be honest, its not as if anyone argued homes earlier than this. I can read.. If I had read a sentence that said "EWR MUST have homes built it or it doesn't get built" then I would obviously have cottoned on earlier. In my eyes, homes could be built anywhere the railway went. But obviously there needs to be a mandated amount of homes and that is obviously supported better by Route E. That was the catch.

Bedford Midland is a complicated station to refurb. It doesn't have space, it doesn't sit wide enough of the town centre not to be affected by congestion. I just wonder how much traffic network rail and the local authorities are willing to pile in there before it just grinds to a halt. Every route into Bedford midland is saturated by roundabouts, traffic lights, zebra crossings.. Traffic generally doesn't move well at Bedford, even at 5am in the morning when I go to work I get stopped 2 or 3 times with nothing about. In rush hour, it takes 20-30 minutes to do 2 miles and I need to drive past the railway station along Bromham road. The car park is full by 8am on most days pre covid, I don't know these days. But its a small car park for the traffic the station generates currently.

 

[BrianW]

My goodness - only realised this now?

Why deceiving and disgusting - a new railway is not going to be built to emulate the bucolic branch line of old. EWR are not doing the house building. There is not going to be enough trade just from Oxford, Bedford, Milton Keynes and Cambridge to justify spending the hundreds of millions on a new line . This is major house building across this arc, or no railway.

Houses have to go somewhere. Previous 'philosophies' had included Garden Cities in or beyond what became Green Belts. Letchworth, Welwyn not dissimilar travel times from the 'big smike'. There was 'slum clearance' when 'back-to-backs' and similar were demolished and new sub-urban estates and/or blocks of flats went up in their stead. Houses lost to the Luftwaffe were replaced with edge of town estates of 'prefabs'. the New Towns- Harlow, Stevenage etc. Expanded towns, like Northampton. New city like MK, Eco Towns like Bicester/ Weston Otmoor ...

The current 'fad' is for a kind of 'linear' city like pearls on a string- the Oxford- Cambridge Arc; the Northern Powerhouse linking in 'poorer' areas like Halifax and Huddersfield (and Hull and Bradford?) into prosperous Leeds and Manchester. An agglomerated conurbation.

Note the 'plans' regarding relocated Marston Vale stations at suitable more regular intervals to suit suitably-sized 'villages' or communities with stations at suitably- bikeable distances with regular trains to Oxford, Cambridge, Bedford, MK, connections to London, Birmingham, East Midlands, the whole country ... and separated by green space suitable for leisure activities- golf, fishing, rambling, ... All very healthy. Who wouldn't want to buy into and vote for that if suitably 'sold'?

 

[bspahh]

And yes, I did just realize all of this. But to be honest, its not as if anyone argued homes earlier than this. I can read.. If I had read a sentence that said "EWR MUST have homes built it or it doesn't get built" then I would obviously have cottoned on earlier. In my eyes, homes could be built anywhere the railway went. But obviously there needs to be a mandated amount of homes and that is obviously supported better by Route E. That was the catch.

In 2017 I went to a talk by Peter Austin, Delivery Director of the new East West Rail Company. These are some quotes.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...on-updates-not-speculation.99892/post-3224662

Housing development is a key part. Railway needs to go to the right places.
[...]
To get lots of housing growth, don't just take the fastest route, hit the
big housing markets, meet ECML near Sandy. Limited numbers of stations.
Looking at cost, journey times, environment, business case. Sandy station
may well be moved a bit North or South.

[...]
Nothing is funded.

Route selection in 2018 would have been nice, but housing deals might push
this back to 2020.

You posted 3 posts after that.

 

[Amos]

I recently received a survey from EWR concerning the naming of the line.A lot of the suggestions seemed to be variations on a theme - varsity line,oxbridge line,oxcam link. I don’t know if EWR are pretty certain the whole thing will go ahead,if they are trying to exert some pressure,or if a marketing company are jumping the gun.

 

[bspahh]

I recently received a survey from EWR concerning the naming of the line.A lot of the suggestions seemed to be variations on a theme - varsity line,oxbridge line,oxcam link. I don’t know if EWR are pretty certain the whole thing will go ahead,if they are trying to exert some pressure,or if a marketing company are jumping the gun.

If they don't build it through to Cambridge, then you can't use "Varsity" or "Oxbridge". If its between Oxford and Bedford, "Oxbed" and "Bedox" are pretty horrid. They can call it "the Oxford line" instead.

 

[richieb1971]

Indeed so! Perhaps someone should build a new one in Bedford…

And I'm sure they will. I am not against railways. I love them. Its the option choices I might have a problem with.

 

[mwmbwls]

It's an old trick but it sometimes works. Building contemporaneous housing encouraged by Sir Edward Watkin resulted in "Metroland" - the key attributes of which were Affordability and Access to Journey to Work opportunities

Jusr another thought do we need a separate smallish TOC to operate this line? - If so whose operations offer the most synergy in both engineering and operational terms?

 

[zwk500]

And I'm sure they will. I am not against railways. I love them. Its the option choices I might have a problem with.

'I'm for railways as long as it doesn't go too near my house'

 

[richieb1971]

'I'm for railways as long as it doesn't go too near my house'

I'd quite happily live 20 feet from any railway line. That is not the point. The point is disruption, capacity and flexibility.

 

[richieb1971]

In 2017 I went to a talk by Peter Austin, Delivery Director of the new East West Rail Company. These are some quotes.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...on-updates-not-speculation.99892/post-3224662

You posted 3 posts after that.

The criteria to make a railway work seems to vary. HS2 doesn't care if any homes are built along the route at all. Even if they were, no stations would ever be built there. EWR comes along, "MUST HAVE HOMES BUILT" or its no railway.

Like I said, homes can be built alongside any railway. Perhaps Route E requires many hectares of land to support EWR homes that other routes cannot muster up.

 

[tomuk]

Jusr another thought do we need a separate smallish TOC to operate this line? - If so whose operations offer the most synergy in both engineering and operational terms?

No I think a combined Thames Valley, Chiltern, TOC would be suitable.

 

[zwk500]

I'd quite happily live 20 feet from any railway line. That is not the point. The point is disruption, capacity and flexibility.

I disagree, the point is offering a service people want. The you can think about making that service resilient, flexible and how you can get the capacity available for it.

 

[zwk500]

The criteria to make a railway work seems to vary. HS2 doesn't care if any homes are built along the route at all. Even if they were, no stations would ever be built there. EWR comes along, "MUST HAVE HOMES BUILT" or its no railway.

Like I said, homes can be built alongside any railway. Perhaps Route E requires many hectares of land to support EWR homes that other routes cannot muster up.

HS2 is a long-distance railway connecting the 3 largest urban areas in England. There's an awful lot of residential development in London, Birmingham and Manchester predicated on HS2 being built. But it's primary purpose is to relieve the southern end of the WCML so that massive housebuilding projects can be served using the existing line.

 

[Bald Rick]

I find it laughable that EWR is relying on new housing.

EWR has always been a new railway to support housing development. Indeed this latest incarnation only got off the ground when the promoting consortium proposed (and almost agreed) a ‘roof tax’ on each of the approx half million new homes then proposed to fund it. (£10k per home IIRC). That was at least a decade ago, probably more.

 

[The Planner]

Look at Aylesbury Vale Pwy, why would you build that without the promise of new housing. Its just taken a decade for it to explode in numbers.

 

[richieb1971]

EWR has always been a new railway to support housing development. Indeed this latest incarnation only got off the ground when the promoting consortium proposed (and almost agreed) a ‘roof tax’ on each of the approx half million new homes then proposed to fund it. (£10k per home IIRC). That was at least a decade ago, probably more.

I am not sure but I think you're taking my argument a little bit out of context.

My argument is that new housing at Bedford is full steam ahead already. Maybe not half a million homes, but a steady rate of build in the past 5 + years. Not to mention warehouses through the kazoo as well.

I did not realize a railway had to be married up with home building to get done. I just believed you could build houses around a railway no problem afterwards. I didn't even realize that folk who built houses talked to people that build railway lines. But they obviously do.

 

[Bald Rick]

I did not realize a railway had to be married up with home building to get done.

It doesn’t, but almost every ‘new’ railway in this country in the last 30 years has been supported by ‘regeneration’ proposals of some sort, whether that be business, residential, or both. Ebbw Vale, Alloa, Corby, Crossrail, etc. Anyone who has a proposal to open a new railway in this country please take note!

I didn't even realize that folk who built houses talked to people that build railway lines.

They don’t, well not much. However people who plan railways do talk to people who plan land use policies. It is essential.

 

[richieb1971]

It doesn’t, but almost every ‘new’ railway in this country in the last 30 years has been supported by ‘regeneration’ proposals of some sort, whether that be business, residential, or both. Ebbw Vale, Alloa, Corby, Crossrail, etc. Anyone who has a proposal to open a new railway in this country please take note!

They don’t, well not much. However people who plan railways do talk to people who plan land use policies. It is essential

Thanks for your insights. We will have some new neighbours soon then...

 

[nanstallon]

Knowing what I know about this country, getting the housebuilding without the railway is a perfectly plausible outcome.

As happened at Tavistock.

Getting anything done in this pathetic country (unless someone stands to make a fast buck) is hopeless. I remember back in 1994 there was talk of an East-West reopening. Then, with Portishead, the project is endlessly put back and the cost escalates. Okehampton is the exception, and is getting twice the expected patronage.

JFDI!

 

[BrianW]

It doesn’t, but almost every ‘new’ railway in this country in the last 30 years has been supported by ‘regeneration’ proposals of some sort, whether that be business, residential, or both. Ebbw Vale, Alloa, Corby, Crossrail, etc. Anyone who has a proposal to open a new railway in this country please take note!

They don’t, well not much. However people who plan railways do talk to people who plan land use policies. It is essential.

I imagine that the much-maligned 'developers' will have had to cough up pay high Section 106, maybe Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL), payments for local councils to put to use to ameliorate adverse effects on the locality, as part of a deal in getting Planning Permission. Perhaps EWR benefit from these, at least indirectly- I think the details of such are published somewhere. These payments are of course passed on to the new residents in the price of their house, thus contributing to house price inflation; and developers are also constrained by the need to produce a proportion of so-called 'affordable housing' which by-and-large their 'full-price' neighbours don't want as they 'bring down the neighbourhood'. During the years after the Credit Crunch developers argued successfully with government to be allowed to reduce the amount of 'affordable housing', contending that the cost of such provision affected adversely on the feasibility of developments at all resulting in pausing of their plans, to the detriment of new housing provision. A skeptic may relate such to financial support of the governing party and constituency MPs, or not. There will have been talks ...

 

[richieb1971]

Knowing what I know about this country, getting the housebuilding without the railway is a perfectly plausible outcome.

My local neighbours at Wixams were supposed to get a railway station. The railway was already there. So far, no station.

But that will change soon if you believe the hype.

 

[richieb1971]

I disagree, the point is offering a service people want. The you can think about making that service resilient, flexible and how you can get the capacity available for it.

I've stated many times what service I want and got told to do a run and jump. I must not be categorized as a person. Must be more important people than me.

 

[zwk500]

I've stated many times what service I want and got told to do a run and jump. I must not be categorized as a person. Must be more important people than me.

The railway is a mass transit solution. Therefore it caters to the largest flows not individual desires.

 

[Roger B]

The railway is a mass transit solution. Therefore it caters to the largest flows not individual desires.

That may be the theory, but in practice - ain't necessarily so!

An instance being Congleton, which for many years it had a service way in excess of what you might expect - largely down to the efforts of one man - a former colleague.

 

[CdBrux]

I'd quite happily live 20 feet from any railway line. That is not the point. The point is disruption, capacity and flexibility.

You seem to want maximum capacity and flexibility without any, or almost any, disruption. The point people keep making to you is that this trade-off is very rarely achievable and you give an impression of not listening to this and rather accusing these people of insulting you for pointing out you may not be correct in your thinking.

 

[A0]

As happened at Tavistock.

Getting anything done in this pathetic country (unless someone stands to make a fast buck) is hopeless. I remember back in 1994 there was talk of an East-West reopening. Then, with Portishead, the project is endlessly put back and the cost escalates. Okehampton is the exception, and is getting twice the expected patronage.

JFDI!

Right - so once again we have it that railways should be allowed to proceed without any of the checks and balances and processes that other infrastructure e.g. roads, airports etc are subject to. Good to know.

Okehampton was (in the scheme of things) fairly easy in as much as there was already an active railway there (yes, I'm aware it was basically dug up and relaid, but there wasn't the need to go through consultations for the route etc).

East West (beyond Bedford) was always going to be problematic because it was always going to mean a new route, therefore all the consultations, designs etc. Whereas the western section Bletchley - Claydon was mothballed and Claydon - Bicester was an active railway. Once again fairly simple in the scheme of things.

 

[BrianW]

If they don't build it through to Cambridge, then you can't use "Varsity" or "Oxbridge". If its between Oxford and Bedford, "Oxbed" and "Bedox" are pretty horrid. They can call it "the Oxford line" instead.

The (thin?) blue line?
Spy Line (Philby etc) with a stop at Bletchley Park-way
Bunyan Line
The George VII Line
The Sachdev Line
Neil [Sachdev] has been appointed for a term of 3 years and will oversee the delivery of the East West Rail project, which will deliver a new direct rail link between Oxford and Cambridge, serving towns and cities along the Oxford-Cambridge arc.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/neil-sachdev-appointed-as-permanent-chair-of-ewr-co , dated March 2021, so complete Oxbridge March 2024

 

[zwk500]

The (thin?) blue line?
Spy Line (Philby etc) with a stop at Bletchley Park-way
Bunyan Line
The George VII Line
The Sachdev Line
Neil [Sachdev] has been appointed for a term of 3 years and will oversee the delivery of the East West Rail project, which will deliver a new direct rail link between Oxford and Cambridge, serving towns and cities along the Oxford-Cambridge arc.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/neil-sachdev-appointed-as-permanent-chair-of-ewr-co , dated March 2021, so complete Oxbridge March 2024

Have it as 2 sections: Oxford-MK as the Aylesbury Vale line (the embarassment of no Aylesbury service can stand as a warning/encouragement to get it done), with Bletchley-Bedford remaining as the Marston Vale line.
If they ever complete it through to Cambridge, then it can rebrand as the Varsity Line.