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Delay repay when timetable changed

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SeanG

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If I were to buy a ticket today with a fixed itinerary (IE an advance ticket) and then the timetable were to be changed (eg the upcoming temporary timetable on the WoE line), where would I stand with Delay repay?

Presumably the advance ticket would be accepted on the nearest appropriate service but if that led to a delay would I be able to claim?

Also, where would I stand with subsequent advance tickets for onward travel (bought as a split ticket arrangement)?

Thanks
 
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yorkie

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If I were to buy a ticket today with a fixed itinerary (IE an advance ticket) and then the timetable were to be changed (eg the upcoming temporary timetable on the WoE line), where would I stand with Delay repay?
I think it should still apply, however the NRCoT has the new awful "timetable of the day" wording which attempts to preclude this. It's a complicated subject and I'll invite @Watershed to explain in more detail.
Presumably the advance ticket would be accepted on the nearest appropriate service
Yes
but if that led to a delay would I be able to claim?
Not necessarily if you took an earlier service and did not arrive sufficiently late compared to the original booked time; it's a grey area
Also, where would I stand with subsequent advance tickets for onward travel (bought as a split ticket arrangement)?
Can you clarify the exact tickets held, itinerary and when the purchases were made?
 

SeanG

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Thanks for the detailed reply.
I haven't bought them yet, but the tickets would be:
London Stations to Exeter St David's Advance Single (valid on 0920 from Waterloo to Exeter)

Exeter St David's to Plymouth and Plymouth to Penzance, both Advance Single on specified GWR services
 

Watershed

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If I were to buy a ticket today with a fixed itinerary (IE an advance ticket) and then the timetable were to be changed (eg the upcoming temporary timetable on the WoE line), where would I stand with Delay repay?

Presumably the advance ticket would be accepted on the nearest appropriate service but if that led to a delay would I be able to claim?
It's complicated. The rail industry's position is that delay compensation is based on whatever timetable is shown on NRE at 10pm the night before. Not all TOCs base their calculations on this - but the industry purports, in the NRCoT and the various Passenger Charters, to have the right to do so.

I have severe doubts as to the enforceability of this limitation, given the context of a consumer contract (unfair terms are not binding, and this seems to fall into several of the example categories of unfair terms).

What is absolutely clear is that the entitlement to the delay compensation available under the EU Rail Passengers' Rights and Obligations Regulation 1371/2007 ("PRO") is not affected by this definition. But unfortunately the percentage of compensation available under the PRO is much less generous than that offered under the NRCoT and most Charters. And there is a minimum delay of 60 minutes before you qualify.

There have been several threads where this issue has been discussed. You might like to Google "timetable of the day site:Railforums.co.uk" to have a read through a few of them.

Also, where would I stand with subsequent advance tickets for onward travel (bought as a split ticket arrangement)?

Thanks
Here it's much simpler. If one of your originally booked trains is cancelled or retimed such as to cause you to miss a connection, you're automatically entitled to take the next train that complies with any route or company restrictions on your ticket(s), even if Advance tickets are involved.

If sticking to these restrictions would strand you, or would cause a delay of more than an hour (e.g. as in this case, where the Grand Central only restriction would ordinarily mean waiting several hours for the next GC train), then once again PRO becomes relevant. You are entitled to require the TOC at fault to re-route you to your destination at the earliest opportunity.

That means that any split points, or company/route restrictions that your ticket(s) may have are no longer relevant. The TOC in question either needs to arrange ticket acceptance, or endorse your ticket, or provide you with a free excess or new ticket. If they refuse to do so, then you should make your own arrangements (mitigating the cost where possible, i.e. if an Advance is still available then buy that) and recover the cost from the TOC in question.
 

yorkie

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Thanks for the detailed reply.
I haven't bought them yet, but the tickets would be:
London Stations to Exeter St David's Advance Single (valid on 0920 from Waterloo to Exeter)

Exeter St David's to Plymouth and Plymouth to Penzance, both Advance Single on specified GWR services
My advice would be to buy these tickets as a through journey, using an accredited ticket splitting website.

This will give you a through itinerary, which you can use as evidence that the itinerary was a valid one at the time of booking, and that you are contracted to make the full journey at the times specified.

It makes it potentially easier to refund or change the journey, compared to booking each leg directly with both companies 'direct', in the event of changes to times or any other issues.

If e-tickets are available, you will get one PDF which can make Delay Repay claims easier (the split ticket site I use does this; I am unsure if all sites do, but they should).
 

SeanG

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Thanks, this has been good advice. I reckon Trainsplit will give me one PDF (and indeed highlighted the cheaper fares for me).

If I am honest the reclaiming of delay repay would not be essential (it would only be a few quid) but the whole journey not going belly up would be the main thing as I intend to get the sleeper back up from Penzance later that evening !
 

yorkie

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Thanks, this has been good advice. I reckon Trainsplit will give me one PDF (and indeed highlighted the cheaper fares for me).
Yes, that's the site I use and yes it will :)
If I am honest the reclaiming of delay repay would not be essential (it would only be a few quid) but the whole journey not going belly up would be the main thing as I intend to get the sleeper back up from Penzance later that evening !
Indeed, it's not just Delay Repay that can be a concern with a journey such as this.

Also have you seen the issues with the SWR's Waterloo to Exeter line? There is a thread about it on this forum.

If there is a price that is agreeable to you available now, I'd book the tickets sooner rather than later...
 

Watershed

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Thanks, this has been good advice. I reckon Trainsplit will give me one PDF (and indeed highlighted the cheaper fares for me).

If I am honest the reclaiming of delay repay would not be essential (it would only be a few quid) but the whole journey not going belly up would be the main thing as I intend to get the sleeper back up from Penzance later that evening !
Ah, if you want to get the sleeper then I would allow plenty of time at Penzance in case of delays. Otherwise it ends up being very complicated as staff may (quite legitimately) ask you where you're going. "Back to London, via Penzance" could lead to some confusion...
 

Haywain

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Ah, if you want to get the sleeper then I would allow plenty of time at Penzance in case of delays. Otherwise it ends up being very complicated as staff may (quite legitimately) ask you where you're going. "Back to London, via Penzance" could lead to some confusion...
I suppose, if it comes to it, stopping short of Penzance would be an option.
 

SeanG

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Thanks all for the advice.

I chose to book an hour earlier train from London Waterloo at 0920 which arrives at Exeter St Davids at 1243 (for now...) for the sum of £9.15 with a railcard. Then I have booked a second Advance Single from Exeter St Davids to Penzance at 1525, arriving 1841 for £6.30, again with a railcard. So hopefully 2.5hr buffer will give me plenty of time in Exeter and there will also be 4 further trains from Exeter - Penzance in order that I can make the sleeper if there are any delays. Of course as @Haywain states, if push comes to shove and I am seriously delayed I could have a word with staff and pick up the sleeper further east.
 

yorkie

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For future reference, you can get this to be one through itinerary by specifying additional interchange time.

However with a lengthy break at Exeter, you could have lunch there and explore the city, so it may make sense in this instance for it to be booked as separate journeys.
 

northwichcat

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What is absolutely clear is that the entitlement to the delay compensation available under the EU Rail Passengers' Rights and Obligations Regulation 1371/2007 ("PRO") is not affected by this definition. But unfortunately the percentage of compensation available under the PRO is much less generous than that offered under the NRCoT and most Charters. And there is a minimum delay of 60 minutes before you qualify.

Unfortunately, we are now in the situation where we have left the EU and while EU consumer protection rights still apply, Liz Truss is suggesting if she becomes PM she would eliminate the rules that create red tape. I think an EU rule which requires better rights than NRCoT would be near the top of the list for elimination.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

For future reference, you can get this to be one through itinerary by specifying additional interchange time.

However with a lengthy break at Exeter, you could have lunch there and explore the city, so it may make sense in this instance for it to be booked as separate journeys.

I've not been able to find a site that offers more than a 90 minute connection time. When I was looking it related to getting seat reservations on an off-peak ticket with a break in journey, which there was a different solution for.

But I certainly agree that exploring a city would be preferable to a lengthy wait at a station.
 

Watershed

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Unfortunately, we are now in the situation where we have left the EU and while EU consumer protection rights still apply, Liz Truss is suggesting if she becomes PM she would eliminate the rules that create red tape. I think an EU rule which requires better rights than NRCoT would be near the top of the list for elimination.
Whilst I wouldn't trust her an inch, I think the government probably has bigger priorities right now.

I've not been able to find a site that offers more than a 90 minute connection time. When I was looking it related to getting seat reservations on an off-peak ticket with a break in journey, which there was a different solution for.

But I certainly agree that exploring a city would be preferable to a lengthy wait at a station.
TrainSplit will allow you to specify additional interchange at specific stations, as well as generally for the entire journey.

By putting in the following advanced options:

1661858145111.png
London Waterloo to Penzance, via Salisbury, changing at Exeter St Davids with an additional 70 minutes' interchange time; maximum one change; general extra interchange time of 70 minutes

I can get OP's trains to come up as one journey.
 

SeanG

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Edit to this, I went to buy these fares and they have gone unfortunately.
So the next cheapest option was a fully flexible super off peak return which has now been purchased. At £85.90 this is great value in my book and only came to about £20 more with the added bonus of flexibility to avoid any delays
 

yorkie

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Yes, I thought that may happen!

Yes 20 quid extra for flexibility can be worth it (which is why some TOCs want such regulated semi-flexible fares abolished under proposed fares reform, but that's a whole new topic!)
 

northwichcat

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TrainSplit will allow you to specify additional interchange at specific stations, as well as generally for the entire journey.

I found it only allowed up to 99 extra minutes change time when I tried it a few months ago. But I did post it on here, so someone may have taken the feedback on board.
 

Watershed

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I found it only allowed up to 99 extra minutes change time when I tried it a few months ago. But I did post it on here, so someone may have taken the feedback on board.
It does only allow 99 extra minutes, but as per the screenshot above, you can separately specify extra interchange time on a per-station basis, as well as generally for the whole journey. The two values are added together, allowing you to create a total extra interchange time of more than 99 minutes.
 

OscarH

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I found it only allowed up to 99 extra minutes change time when I tried it a few months ago. But I did post it on here, so someone may have taken the feedback on board.
The new site should support longer than 99 minutes (I don't think there is a specific limit, though it can behave strangely with particularly long times, I think where it goes overnight)
 
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