Freight cars owned by BR or UK Railway companies intended for use through the "chunnel" or to be ferried across the channel, always got UIC designations in addition to the usual three-letter UK code. But recently it seems these get applied even to domestic UK freight cars - are the TOPS designations going out of use?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Do even freight cars for domestic UK use get UIC designations now?
- Thread starter USRailFan
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
No, the TOPS CARKND class codes remain in use. I don't recall the exact details but I understand that the requirement to assign (and now display) a UIC alphabetical designation ended up in the UK rules through the TSI process and has remained in the domestic implementations - in the same way that all vehicles are now assigned EVNs and vehicles approved after January 2018 have to display them even if only being used within GB.
Dunfanaghy Rd
Member
It's worth mentioning, perhaps, that the majority of new-build freight rolling stock is built on the Continent and would never reach us without a UIC / ERA number. There was a dispensation once, but I think I heard that the continental railways abolished it.
The TOPS 3-letter Carknd codes are rubbish - third letter is 'A'. More use if the Aarknd letter was used, at least it would give a better idea of what was incoming. (Not my problem now that I'm retired, but it did wind me up). The UIC system ties the number to the wagon type (unlike TOPS). I'm no fan of the EU, but the European Agency for Rail is useful, if not perfect.
Pat
The TOPS 3-letter Carknd codes are rubbish - third letter is 'A'. More use if the Aarknd letter was used, at least it would give a better idea of what was incoming. (Not my problem now that I'm retired, but it did wind me up). The UIC system ties the number to the wagon type (unlike TOPS). I'm no fan of the EU, but the European Agency for Rail is useful, if not perfect.
Pat
Oxfordblues
Member
- Joined
- 22 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 1,138
Yes, I remember the Polybulk grain hoppers were IPBs and the VTG bogie-vans were also IPBs, causing no end of confusion!
Davester50
Member
No, the OP is referring to the UIC classification marks for goods wagons appearing on British stock.
For example, this photograph by 47soton of a new wagon for Network Rail shows both the GB-style markings, including the TOPS CARKND code "MLA", and the UIC-style markings including the standardised classification code "Ealnos".
The country codes are however also visible; the European Vehicle Number including the country code "70" for Great Britain, and the Vehicle Keeper Marking prefixed "GB" for the same meaning.
(click on the photo to view at full size)
eastwestdivide
Established Member
The ’f’ in the code was originally ’suitable for ferry use’ when the Dover and Harwich train ferries were in operation. Did the meaning then get extended to ‘suitable for channel tunnel use’?
Dunfanaghy Rd
Member
It would appear that it doesn't appear on most GB-only vehicles. (Of course, when the current leases expire they could take new contracts on the Continent.)
There were 3 'f's':
f - suitable for traffic with Great Britain;
ff - suitable for traffic with Great Britain (by tunnel exclusively)
fff - suitable for traffic with Great Britain (by train-ferry exclusively). Quoted verbatim from the TSI WAG.
I don't think any 'fff' codes were issued (I can't find one in the Table for 7-Z (tank cars) which is the most obvious place to look)
Pat
I note the buffer end of the MLA/Ealnos wagon features the Swiss flag for Wascosa - could we see other leasing companies adding a ‘home base’ flag to their stock? Also, what is the little steel box above the flag - it is angled upwards so is it a solar powered device?
The "home base" for the wagon is indicated by the GB prefix in the VKM! The flag is just something that Wascosa have chosen to do for their own reasons.
The device is solar-powered, but I don't know what it is.
Isn't the Swiss flag simply because Wascosa is a Swiss company?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The Drax biomass wagons have the UIC designation Tafoos but I don't think they operate outside the UK?
Last edited:
The index letters 'f', 'ff', and 'fff' denoting GB loading gauge are only defined for use with category letters F, H, I, L, O, S, T, U, and Z, thus wagons in categories E, G, K, and R will not show them regardless of compatibility.
Davester50
Member
So it's not NO per se, but both code and country are required in the current EVN era...
Pre-2007, it was just for example 87 SNCF with no "F" sticker.
See the private Italian InterFrigo van pictured below at Selby in 1989. No country label, but 83 FS (who clearly didn't own the wagon).
Picture from Rail Album picturing Interfrigo with RIV numbering
You're confused again. The OP was asking about the wagon type codes, not country codes.
When talking about country codes, yes, you now need both the numeric code in the EVN and the alphabetic code in the VKM.
Davester50
Member
That wasn't the OP, and the answer to their question was "no" because we were discussion the type codes!
Davester50
Member
I wasn't replying to the OP though.
Can you really not see that when @route101 came along and asked "Is this a country code on the wagons? Bit like a UK or GB sticker?" the answer was no, because the type codes don't fulfil that function and the country codes weren't under discussion at all?
Happily, we have been able to illustrate the country codes in addition to the original and distinct topic of the type codes.
Davester50
Member
Yes, I can, hence I have already edited my reply, as I misread 101's post on the GB sticker bit, not the OPs.
Indeed. The whole coding system with multiple numbers on traction and rolling stock is a minefield to me these days.
Pre-2007 was much simpler (IMHO).
Dunfanaghy Rd
Member
Nearly true. In 2008 the code 3623 Rfnoos was introduced. It's never been used (to my knowledge) and I suspect was intended for the timber carriers rebuilt from Rover Hi-cube KSA's. In the event they are still on TOPS as such - same tare, brake force, etc. - almost as though someone forgot to tell RSL that they had been altered. Surely not!
Pat
Ah, thank you. My source predates that.
I always understood E, G, K and R were for 'ordinary' wagons, with F, H, L and S for 'special' equivalants. As the system was drawn up primarily for European Continental use, 'ordinary' and 'special' took their meanings from a continental viewpoint, which meant that conformity with GB loading gauge was necessarily 'special', so f, ff, fff were not for E, G, K and R: but reading more carefully it would appear not only to indicate 'GB loading gauge' but also 'via train ferry and/or Channel Tunnel'.
So it would appear that - now that GB wagons are getting UIC numbers and codes - 'GB only' wagons are getting codes without 'f's (and when appropriate, starting E, G, K and R) and numbers to match, with 'f's indicating, effectively, suitable for cross-channel use.
So it would appear that - now that GB wagons are getting UIC numbers and codes - 'GB only' wagons are getting codes without 'f's (and when appropriate, starting E, G, K and R) and numbers to match, with 'f's indicating, effectively, suitable for cross-channel use.
Eeeh... Sort of
E= What in the UK would be called a Box wagon, in the USA a gondola. Basically MJAs and similar.
F = Open Hopper cars, mostly, ie coal, aggregates. Basically HTAs and similar.
G = Standard closed freight wagons, what in the UK would be called a Van, in the USA a boxcar.
H = Sliding wall freight wagons, basically similar to G, but the entire wagon side opens. Most common type today. UK Equivalent would be e.g. VGA
I = Refrigerator cars
K = Two-axle flat cars with stakes.
L = Two-axle flat cars without stakes, or with "special" stakes. Typically container, car transport, lumber. Can also have sliding hoods to cover/protect cargo
R = Bogie flat cars with stakes
S = Bogie flat cars without stakes, or with "special stakes. Typically container, steel transport. Can also have sliding hoods to cover/protect cargo.
T = covered hoppers, typically for e.g. grain, pellets
U = "special" cars, such as powder tank cars (typically two-axle with 2-3 circular tanks), some grain cars, deep loading cars
Z = tanker cars
Dunfanaghy Rd
Member
Hopper cars, as such, are not a category.
To quote from the 'horse's mouth';
E - Open, high-sided wagon, of ordinary type;
F - Open, high-sided wagon, of special type (i.e. suitable for UK, &c.);
G - Covered wagon, of ordinary type;
H - Covered wagon, of special type;
I - Temperature-controlled Wagon;
K - 2-axle Flat wagon, of ordinary type;
L - 2-axle Wagon, of special type;
O - Mixed Flat and Open High-sided wagon, or ordinary type;
R - Flat Bogie Wagon, or ordinary type;
S - Flat Bogie Wagon, of special type;
T - Wagon with opening roof;
U - Special Wagons, other than Categories F, H, L, S or Z;
Z - Tank Wagon, with metal shell.
All of which are subject to qualification by the 'index' letters (e.g. Zi would indicate a Tank Wagon with a non-metallic shell).
https://www.era.europa.eu/sites/default/files/registers/docs/appendix_6_p12_en.pdf explains it all!
Pat
To quote from the 'horse's mouth';
E - Open, high-sided wagon, of ordinary type;
F - Open, high-sided wagon, of special type (i.e. suitable for UK, &c.);
G - Covered wagon, of ordinary type;
H - Covered wagon, of special type;
I - Temperature-controlled Wagon;
K - 2-axle Flat wagon, of ordinary type;
L - 2-axle Wagon, of special type;
O - Mixed Flat and Open High-sided wagon, or ordinary type;
R - Flat Bogie Wagon, or ordinary type;
S - Flat Bogie Wagon, of special type;
T - Wagon with opening roof;
U - Special Wagons, other than Categories F, H, L, S or Z;
Z - Tank Wagon, with metal shell.
All of which are subject to qualification by the 'index' letters (e.g. Zi would indicate a Tank Wagon with a non-metallic shell).
https://www.era.europa.eu/sites/default/files/registers/docs/appendix_6_p12_en.pdf explains it all!
Pat
- Status