Chiltern Railways VS Avanti West Coast

[WizCastro197]

With Avanti's Current troubles and great reduction in their timetable. Has Chiltern re-arisen as a viable alternative?

I've always viewed Chiltern as a good alternative for transport between Birmingham and London due to cheaper fares than Avanti but with that you sacrifice many amenities you would receive on an intercity train such as attentive service and catering and the overall feel of an commuter train if not travelling on the 68+MKIII+DVT combination.

I was thinking for a family that would want to travel to Birmingham by train let's say. Which one would be a better choice

*Car is out of the question in this just for the sake of it*.

I think Chiltern at first glance could be quite competitive as its low fares have the edge of Avanti's higher prices but with Chiltern you eventually realise that you would have to sacrifice most of the usual benefits of an 1h+ journey such as Catering and Attentive Service if you pull the short stick and you travel on a 168 to Birmingham from Marylebone. Also I think the duration of the journey is significantly higher than that of Avanti's.

The Last time I travelled on a Pendolino was in 2006 when I was 10 so It has been some time. So now as it is Avanti I haven't travelled as I have no reason to trek up the West Midlands. But With Avanti Im not sure about the Value for money as the Refurbed seats look great but it stills seems so overpriced especially with the uncertainty of whether your train will be cancelled or delayed or revised. But there is onboard catering but I doubt many families would do that as it could probably be cheaper to bring snacks or food themselves but I suppose it is nice to have that option in any circumstance.

I have also wondered during Avanti's Troubles and Disruption if Chiltern have seen a large unexpected influx on their services as oppose to Avanti. Do Chiltern often get overcrowded or do they now from London?

I would be interesting to hear peoples views over which one they'd take.

 

[Merseysider]

Coming up to Birmingham, if I have a connection at New Street I’ll pick Avanti. I normally don’t mind missing it & getting delay repay.

If I need to get there on time, Chiltern.

 

[m4tt]

Currently the journey time difference is about 20/30 minutes which is not too bad especially for the price difference, something which would be a big factor for leisure travellers. Families would appreciate just getting from A to B most, they are unlikely to take time be picky of the type of train or the brightness of the lights that some people on here talk about. London Euston has much better links which may make it a more popular option for those with onward journeys.

Despite not being part of the question, I would consider LNWR as they are a direct competitor with Avanti both serving Euston and New Street. Journey times are longer than Chiltern although that has to be put down to the 15 minute booked wait at Northampton. Anyone know why? The ticket is also £10 cheaper than Chiltern making it an even more viable option if you can put up with the journey time.

IMO 350s are better than anything Chiltern have, unless it is a pair of 350/2s

 

[Kite159]

Currently the journey time difference is about 20/30 minutes which is not too bad especially for the price difference, something which would be a big factor for leisure travellers. Families would appreciate just getting from A to B most, they are unlikely to take time be picky of the type of train or the brightness of the lights that some people on here talk about. London Euston has much better links which may make it a more popular option for those with onward journeys.

Despite not being part of the question, I would consider LNWR as they are a direct competitor with Avanti both serving Euston and New Street. Journey times are longer than Chiltern although that has to be put down to the 15 minute booked wait at Northampton. Anyone know why? The ticket is also £10 cheaper than Chiltern making it an even more viable option if you can put up with the journey time.

IMO 350s are better than anything Chiltern have, unless it is a pair of 350/2s

Going towards Birmingham you can normally save time and avoid the Northampton crawl by changing at Rugby from the London - Crewe service to a Northampton - Birmingham service.

Although some passengers would prefer to stay on the same train throughout

 

[RailWonderer]

Journey times are longer than Chiltern although that has to be put down to the 15 minute booked wait at Northampton. Anyone know why?

Pathing reasons and the driver change though I suspect it's partly so it does not become too competitive with Avanti.

 

[A0]

Unless your journey is London - Birmingham (or vice versa), you can't really compare them - they don't serve a comparable route.

Comparing LNWR and Avanti makes sense because they do shadow each other for the whole route.

 

[XAM2175]

I've always viewed Chiltern as a good alternative for transport between Birmingham and London due to cheaper fares than Avanti but with that you sacrifice many amenities you would receive on an intercity train such as attentive service and catering and the overall feel of an commuter train if not travelling on the 68+MKIII+DVT combination.

What is this "attentive service" of which you speak?

 

[WizCastro197]

First Class only t&cs apply

 

[dk1]

During any disruption like at the moment then I might head to Marylebone but will always go back to Euston & the fast 3tph Avanti service.

 

[deltic]

When I travel on business I go Chiltern, quieter, wifi tends to be more reliable, you get a table and where I'm going to is very close to Snow Hill

 

[Mikey C]

Yes you get the DMU "rumble" but personally I find the 168s very pleasant inside, with very comfortable seats and decent space when compared to the cramped and claustrophobic 390s.

 

[Silverlinky]

Pathing reasons and the driver change though I suspect it's partly so it does not become too competitive with Avanti.

They broke the service up in Covid times, mainly due to rostering issues, crew changes and sharing the work out. The "through services" make a welcome return in the December timetable.

 

[anamyd]

I did Moor Street to Marylebone on 7/2/22 and return on 10/2/22, was my first time travelling with Chiltern and my first time on 168s because of the Avanti fares having gone up. The feeling of unfamiliarity / weirdness went away quickly and I actually felt quite welcome / comfortable.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I agree with the above posts about the 168s. They were surprisingly comfortable the first time I rode it. I was expecting a Class 165/166 3+2 seating and ride, but the Class 168s exceeded my expectations. Comfy 2+2 seats with a lot of tables.

The only problem is short trains. I've seen Chiltern use a single 3-car 168 from London to Birmingham (and beyond).

 

[deltic]

The other reason to travel Chiltern is to see the magnificent red kites that I always find uplifting

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree with the above posts about the 168s. They were surprisingly comfortable the first time I rode it. I was expecting a Class 165/166 3+2 seating and ride, but the Class 168s exceeded my expectations. Comfy 2+2 seats with a lot of tables.

The only problem is short trains. I've seen Chiltern use a single 3-car 168 from London to Birmingham (and beyond).

2-car happens too often too...

I find the Chiltern Line pretty boring to be honest, though the elevated section through High Wycombe I like. But at the moment it's good value and reliable, hence why I'm recommending people use it.

 

[Techniquest]

I don't particularly enjoy Chiltern, and while I enjoy the high speed and tilting of the 390s, I can't justify using Avanti currently. I use LNWR between Birmingham and London instead, it may not be the fastest way to London but I prefer it to the long drag that is going on Chiltern. I'd rather not go than go with Chiltern, quite honestly. Even National Express would get chosen over Chiltern!

 

[Kite159]

I don't particularly enjoy Chiltern, and while I enjoy the high speed and tilting of the 390s, I can't justify using Avanti currently. I use LNWR between Birmingham and London instead, it may not be the fastest way to London but I prefer it to the long drag that is going on Chiltern. I'd rather not go than go with Chiltern, quite honestly. Even National Express would get chosen over Chiltern!

Unless you get unlucky with a pair of 350/2s on LNR, but they are still better than a 2 coach flymo attempting to gain speed when crush loaded.

 

[Techniquest]

Unless you get unlucky with a pair of 350/2s on LNR, but they are still better than a 2 coach flymo attempting to gain speed when crush loaded.

Oh yes, I know that issue with the 2 car train, I used to have to endure that when solo 170/5s used to turn up on the Hereford-Birmingham route. Especially so before the station in Bromsgrove was moved and made drastically better!

A pair of Terrible Twos Birmingham to London is still preferable to a 168 of any length from Moor Street!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh yes, I know that issue with the 2 car train, I used to have to endure that when solo 170/5s used to turn up on the Hereford-Birmingham route. Especially so before the station in Bromsgrove was moved and made drastically better!

A pair of Terrible Twos Birmingham to London is still preferable to a 168 of any length from Moor Street!

The WCML is to be fair vastly more scenic/interesting over most of its length. Though Marylebone is lovely and civilised.

 

[Techniquest]

The WCML is to be fair vastly more scenic/interesting over most of its length. Though Marylebone is lovely and civilised.

Yes I will agree there, when I last visited Marylebone absolutely ages ago it was quite nice. Not a patch on Paddington, but I am biased there!

 

[NewClee153]

If I need to get to London quick, I’ll choose Avanti. If I need to get to London cheap, I’ll choose London Northwestern Railway. If I have to desire to pinch pennies or I’m not in any particular rush, I’ll choose Chiltern.

In terms of line/scenery, I much prefer the Chiltern mainline, I love the seats in the class 168s (not the /3s, they’re rock hard) - they help reflect what it usually a very relaxed journey, though the interior feels a little dated now, I much prefer a 168 to a cramped, claustrophobic pendolino or a 350/2