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Park Royal car accident - driver charged

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the sniper

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The fatally injured passenger in one report is said to have been thrown from the vehicle. Seatbelts?

There's only so much ordinary seatbelts will do in an aeroplane crash, even if she was wearing one...

Apparently the driver and two passengers are expected to live. That car must have been built like a tank.

Looking at the pictures, the interior/safety cell looked to have held up really well. I think the JLR engineers should be pretty proud.
 
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E27007

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In the series of images image , note the damage to the red Tesla sign, the destruction to the fence, the impact site of the white Tesla near the blue forensics tent and then estimate the distance travelled to the final resting place on the railway line.
I think that the vehicle was travelling at such high speed , the driver was unable to negotiate the curve on the A40 carriageway and ran off the road, making several impacts before coming to rest on the railway line.
Was the vehicle running at 100 mph when the driver lost control?
 

BrianW

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However did this happen? Crash on A40 in middle of night seems to have dropped onto the car park of the Tesla dealer, gone right across, through the fence, and down onto "the tracks", which seems to actually mean the eastbound Piccadilly Line Park Royal platform.

That's one hell of a crash. Presumably the video's from a fixed camera overlooking the EV charging points. 2am-ish. 100-120mph. Showing off. No concern for others. overestimating capability ...

I foresee clamour for improved provision of crash barriers as after the Selby/ Great Heck 'accident', and a claim of contributory negligence on behlf of those in the car!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selby_rail_crash
 

AlterEgo

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That's one hell of a crash. Presumably the video's from a fixed camera overlooking the EV charging points. 2am-ish. 100-120mph. Showing off. No concern for others. overestimating capability ...

I foresee clamour for improved provision of crash barriers as after the Selby/ Great Heck 'accident', and a claim of contributory negligence on behlf of those in the car!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selby_rail_crash
I believe the video actually comes from a Tesla being charged there.
 

Cowley

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I believe the video actually comes from a Tesla being charged there.

That’s what I thought when I saw it too.
That vehicle was going at an incredible speed. It’s remarkable how quickly you can run out of ability…
 

AM9

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I foresee clamour for improved provision of crash barriers as after the Selby/ Great Heck 'accident', and a claim of contributory negligence on behlf of those in the car!
I suspect that the most likely change will be very strict enforcement of the 40mph speed limit on this urban part of the A40. There are probably traffic cameras there anyway which might be used in the prosecutions. Looking at google maps, it would seem that the driver wanted to impress his passengers with his driving. Going westwards on the A40, Savoy Circus is the last flat junction for nearly 18 km where at Denham Roundabout the through road becomes the M40. So accelerating away, the driver may have forgotten the slightly tighter bend just before Park Royal Station. At whatever speed the car was travelling, there was little chance of negotiating that bend safely.
 

stuu

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I foresee clamour for improved provision of crash barriers as after the Selby/ Great Heck 'accident', and a claim of contributory negligence on behlf of those in the car!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selby_rail_crash
I don't. You simply cannot make provision for this sort of incident. It is, thankfully, extremely rare. Any money spent to mitigate this sort of incident is going to be better spent elsewhere. Great Heck was slightly different as that was someone going off the road at a foreseeable location and speed, which doesn't apply here
 

bramling

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I suspect that the most likely change will be very strict enforcement of the 40mph speed limit on this urban part of the A40. There are probably traffic cameras there anyway which might be used in the prosecutions. Looking at google maps, it would seem that the driver wanted to impress his passengers with his driving. Going westwards on the A40, Savoy Circus is the last flat junction for nearly 18 km where at Denham Roundabout the through road becomes the M40. So accelerating away, the driver may have forgotten the slightly tighter bend just before Park Royal Station. At whatever speed the car was travelling, there was little chance of negotiating that bend safely.

Really the punishments for this sort of thing need to be worse (if, of course, all is as it seems and there wasn’t some sort of mechanical or medical issue, though this looks pretty doubtful). For people driving so far over the speed limit there needs to be a pretty stiff punishment, including (but not limited to) a lifetime driving ban. It also needs to be proactive rather than reactive, so get people *before* they manage to kill someone.

Won’t happen though, as for some reason society seems to pander to these types of people.
 

E27007

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In the first image attached there are a number of yellow cones placed in the road, we can see a damaged lamppost, several yellow cones, and two missing sections of crash fences, one set in grey then a second sey in white.
What is the purpose of the yellow cones, have the investigators placed to cones to mark the likely trajectory of the vehicle for forensic purposes?
In the second image,again shows yellow cones, and the damage to the Tesla sign is secondary to the main damage caused by the vehicle. A heavy object, such as a wheel, has possibly detached from the vehicle and struck thhe Tesla sign having taken a trajectory separate to the vehicle, in an images taken later, the red panel of the Tesla sign is missing, possibly removed for forensic analysis?
In the third image, there is a low island which has an isolated shrub, the vehicle in its trajectory , may have hurdled the low island destroying shrubberry and scattering soil, in the second image we see a large quantity of soil possibly from the low island, has accumulated by the road kerb near the damaged fence
 

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Dstock7080

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Going westwards on the A40, Savoy Circus is the last flat junction for nearly 18 km where at Denham Roundabout the through road becomes the M40. So accelerating away, the driver may have forgotten the slightly tighter bend just before Park Royal Station.
There are traffic light junctions at North Acton and Mansfield Road between Savoy Circus and Park Royal station.
 

E27007

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That would explain the initial reports of a female casualty believed to have been with a Tesla.
The Tesla driver stated he found a body near his car, that may be the female ejected from the Range Rover, the blue tent is possibly the site where the female was found, the damage to the Tesla is medium, and is either the impact from the female and / or being struck by debris from the Range Rover, that debris may be is an alloy wheel from the Range Rover at rest near the concrete wall and the blue tent, I do not think the Range Rover made direct contact with the Tesla,, nor did the Range Rover bounce from the Tesla car park to the track, direct contact would have left the Tesla severely crushed, the Range Rover seemingly cleared a wooden enclosure and a high concrete wall without collision before landing on the track, so I believe that the Range Rover flew for several seconds at high speed in a high trajectory from the A40 road, not being impeded by any substantial obstacle in the line of its trajectory, until crash landing directly onto the railway track
 
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AM9

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There are traffic light junctions at North Acton and Mansfield Road between Savoy Circus and Park Royal station.
OK, I didn't realise that. The same point could be true though, just with a shorter run up to Park Royal.
 

Mojo

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I suspect that the most likely change will be very strict enforcement of the 40mph speed limit on this urban part of the A40.
That stretch of the A40 already has average speed cameras, which are quite good and the average standard of driving has definitely improved on that road, and the North Circular, since they were installed.

Judging by the number of people who however apply brakes when going under the yellow cameras I would not hesitate to say there are a number of people who don’t understand how these work, and there is the ‘loophole’ in that if you know where the entry/exit cameras are located and the car is joining after one or entering the road late, or you pull over somewhere between cameras, you could get away with exceeding the speed limit for the section. And that’s before you talk about false plates.
 

AM9

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That stretch of the A40 already has average speed cameras, which are quite good and the average standard of driving has definitely improved on that road, and the North Circular, since they were installed.

Judging by the number of people who however apply brakes when going under the yellow cameras I would not hesitate to say there are a number of people who don’t understand how these work, and there is the ‘loophole’ in that if you know where the entry/exit cameras are located and the car is joining after one or entering the road late, or you pull over somewhere between cameras, you could get away with exceeding the speed limit for the section. And that’s before you talk about false plates.
Well at least the horror and obvious public concern about this event (and others), should deter any stupid anti-EU reaction like removing the requirement for new vehicles to have speed control fitted. it may even reinforce the measure.
 

E27007

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The manufacturers of cars and motorcycles simply carry on making needlessly fast vehicles, narcissistic vanity vehicles capable of double the legal limit, and they will sell to anyone who has the cash.

The design of SUVs such as a Range Rover is not ideal for speed, with their Centre of Gravity so high relative to their Left-to Right wheel track, they are prone to rolling over incidents.
They are also capable of hurdling over restrain barriers in the central reservations of motorways risking colliding with oncoming traffic
 

LOL The Irony

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The manufacturers of cars and motorcycles simply carry on making needlessly fast vehicles, narcissistic vanity vehicles capable of double the legal limit, and they will sell to anyone who has the cash.
Well the manufacturers have a right to make them and the public have a right to buy them. This is more a problem with the operator than the tool. On that front, why did we order iets as 140mph trains if they can only do a maximum of 125?
 

Crossover

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In the first image attached there are a number of yellow cones placed in the road, we can see a damaged lamppost, several yellow cones, and two missing sections of crash fences, one set in grey then a second sey in white.
What is the purpose of the yellow cones, have the investigators placed to cones to mark the likely trajectory of the vehicle for forensic purposes?
I would expect the cones are forensic markers highlighting key points for the investigation
 

AlterEgo

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Well the manufacturers have a right to make them and the public have a right to buy them.
People are arguing that actually you shouldn't be able to buy such a dangerous car. We all know this is the case currently.
 

LOL The Irony

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People are arguing that actually you shouldn't be able to buy such a dangerous car. We all know this is the case currently.
Then let me put it this way. I can go buy a knife and either kill someone with it or make my dinner with it. The choice is with the operator of the tool, not the tool. The car didn't chose to be driven by an imbecile, it's an inanimate object.
 

lachlan

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Then let me put it this way. I can go buy a knife and either kill someone with it or make my dinner with it. The choice is with the operator of the tool, not the tool. The car didn't chose to be driven by an imbecile, it's an inanimate object.
A knife is an essential tool for preparing food, something we all need. There is no practical need for a car to do more than 80 mph.
 

AlterEgo

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Then let me put it this way. I can go buy a knife and either kill someone with it or make my dinner with it. The choice is with the operator of the tool, not the tool. The car didn't chose to be driven by an imbecile, it's an inanimate object.
A knife has a use other than stabbing people to death.

A 120mph-capable car does not, and should not be available to buy commercially (!)

You reckon we should also abolish all our gun laws too?
 

LOL The Irony

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A knife is an essential tool for preparing food, something we all need. There is no practical need for a car to do more than 80 mph.
A 120mph-capable car does not, and should not be available to buy commercially. It is also definitely not an "inanimate object" as it is capable of being driven very fast (!)
Once again, the manufacturers have a right to make them and the public have a right to buy them. Also track days exist so these people can drive their cars however they want in a safe environment.
 

AM9

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Well the manufacturers have a right to make them and the public have a right to buy them. This is more a problem with the operator than the tool. On that front, why did we order iets as 140mph trains if they can only do a maximum of 125?
The IETs could (and may one day) do 140mph in the UK if it was decided to be beneficial for rail operations. They might in some way be routed for part of their journeys on HS2.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Once again, the manufacturers have a right to make them and the public have a right to buy them. Also track days exist so these people can drive their cars however they want in a safe environment.
So it would be fine if they could be bought for off-road use but not licenced for use on the public highway?
 

bramling

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Once again, the manufacturers have a right to make them and the public have a right to buy them. Also track days exist so these people can drive their cars however they want in a safe environment.

It is quite reasonable to make an argument which says the benefits to public safety from inhibiting cars from being able to reach such high speeds outweigh any disbenefits. If the law was democratically changed then the manufacturers would no longer have that right.
 

AlterEgo

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Once again, the manufacturers have a right to make them and the public have a right to buy them.
Yeah, I know this, why are you explaining again what the current situation is? The point is you shouldn't be able to drive a car 120mph on the public road, at all. Merely reiterating the current situation just shows you don't have an argument. This is like going back to 2001 and arguing for a public smoking ban and someone just tells you "aha! Well! You currently CAN smoke in pubs."

Track days? Oh no, how awful. How will we ever do without them?
 

AM9

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Yeah, I know this, why are you explaining again what the current situation is? The point is you shouldn't be able to drive a car 120mph on the public road, at all. Merely reiterating the current situation just shows you don't have an argument. This is like going back to 2001 and arguing for a public smoking ban and someone just tells you "aha! Well! You currently CAN smoke in pubs."

Track days? Oh no, how awful. How will we ever do without them?
Some of the drivers attracted to vehicles like that wouldn't like 'track' driving because they can't bully other drivers. As this event may demonstrate, they aren't even able to drive safely on an empty road, - competition would show just how little they do have apart from arrogance and an inflated ego.
 

PTR 444

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A knife has a use other than stabbing people to death.
Except that preparing food does not require use of the pointed end of the knife. There is an argument that we should ban all pointed knives in favour of round-edged ones, but nobody ever seems to pursue this despite the benefits it would bring in reducing the fatal impact of stabbings.
A knife is an essential tool for preparing food, something we all need. There is no practical need for a car to do more than 80 mph.
There is no practical need for a knife to have a sharp pointed end.
 

AlterEgo

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Except that preparing food does not require use of the pointed end of the knife.
Yes it does. Why do you think kitchen knives have pointy ends? You should do some cookery classes. :D:D
 

jfollows

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My last car had the same engine as the crash SUV, and of course I didn't need anything like it, and I did drive it in excess of 100mph on one occasion which was illegal and dangerous, but I'm human. Much as some people might like to prevent me from having done this, we can't legislate and control all dangerous behaviour, we're humans, we have weaknesses, we give in to our desires, and we take the consequences when we do. I don't seek to justify what I did, but preventing the sale of cars like these isn't the solution.
 

PTR 444

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Yes it does. Why do you think kitchen knives have pointy ends? You should do some cookery classes. :D:D
Well funnily enough, I was preparing a chicken curry yesterday and needed to use a large kitchen knife to chop up the onions and peppers, but for that task I managed fine just using the knife’s edge. The only time I had to use the pointed end was to pierce the packaging of the chicken as it was impossible to peel off from the edges (you know when you peel the plastic film but it only takes off the edges rather than all of it), but then packaging shouldn’t be designed like that in the first place. :D
 
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