What’s going on with Thameslink?

[WizCastro197]

So tonight Thameslink and Southern both have decided to run trains very slowly through Coulsdon South, Merstham, Earlswood, Salfords and Horley but refusing to let any commuters off the trains, which leaves hundreds of passengers to find alternative transport like buses and taxis to get home. They have also suspended all of the 9R services meaning some stations don't even have trains to watch the station go by out of.

These services have been sacrificed so that others may get home exactly on time. It is exceptionally wrong that one group of travellers are penalised constantly like this. Day in day out cancellations, full service withdrawals etc. along the Redhill route What is needed to get Thameslink just to run a basic service.

What an absolute shame. Thameslink recent service competence made it seem as the disruption was nearing a close .I completely agree, As RDH Line passengers it now feels as if we are punished for where we live as most other areas seem to receive a semi-reliable service. Tickets are being accepted on Metrobus but I don't know how many people would use these services. It is a little irritating for those who dont want to get on a bus who would rather change at GTW (which is hard in itself as passengers in London who normally catch a train from the Thameslink Core now have to Travel to Victoria take a train to Redhill and then take another train to GTW using GWR) for a Northbound service have most of the services slashed.

What Southern have listed as being the main causes:

• There is also a signalling problem between Purley and Earlswood, affecting the lines which are used by express services between London Victoria / East Croydon and Gatwick Airport, and another signalling problem at Redhill.
• These incidents are causing disruption to Southern, Thameslink and Gatwick Express trains in the area.
• There are also multiple signalling problems at Redhill, with delays on all southbound lines
• A points failure at Redhill means there is no train service between Redhill and Tonbridge
• Trains via Three Bridges have been further delayed whilst the emergency services have been assisting a person on the station

 

[Urban Gateline]

As RDH Line passengers it now feels as if we are punished for where we live as most other areas seem to receive a semi-reliable service.

I can assure you it's no better on the TL/GN North side between Hitchin and Peterborough they can barely manage a half hourly service and up here there's no alternative routes!

 

[WizCastro197]

I can assure you it's no better on the TL/GN North side between Hitchin and Peterborough they can barely manage a half hourly service and up here there's no alternative routes!

Yes that was the other area I was thinking of which put me off say reliable!! We have the alternative to GTW via GWR but that is also disrupted
To get to London we have our Victoria service but most like to travel to that Thameslink Core as it is where most centrally located stations are.I say its 50/50 Southern/Thameslink

 

[Urban Gateline]

Yes that was the other area I was thinking of which put me off say reliable!!

Saturdays seem to be affected the most, last one was a strike day, but this Saturday 27th my prediction is PBO-SVG and HRH to RDH shuttles again like all the previous August weekends!

 

[WizCastro197]

Saturdays seem to be affected the most, last one was a strike day, but this Saturday 27th my prediction is PBO-SVG and HRH to RDH shuttles again like all the previous August weekends!

This HRH-RDH shuttle, I don't think is very popular. Most people just want there regular direct Londons and probably don't want to change unless they have to. The Horsham shuttle only really helps passengers living near ELD, Salfords and Horley.

To be fair to them their service this weekend was actually quite good. For once I could take Thameslink (haven't in about a year, switched permanently to Southern to reach London ) without the worry of delays or cancellations as we have witnessed recently. I say Delays but my train on Sunday was delayed by about 5 minutes.

 

[Urban Gateline]

This HRH-RDH shuttle, I don't think is very popular. Most people just want there regular direct Londons and probably don't want to change unless they have to. The Horsham shuttle only really helps passengers living near ELD, Salfords and Horley.

To be fair to them their service this weekend was actually quite good. For once I could take Thameslink (haven't in about a year, switched permanently to Southern to reach London ) without the worry of delays or cancellations as we have witnessed recently. I say Delays but my train on Sunday was delayed by about 5 minutes.

Funny that sometimes on the strike days the service is more reliable, probably because it's a more simplified one, no long end to end journeys like PBO to HRH!

The HRH-RDH shuttle, remember it also serves the very important Littlehaven and Ifield

 

[Surreytraveller]

Funny that sometimes on the strike days the service is more reliable, probably because it's a more simplified one, no long end to end journeys like PBO to HRH!

The HRH-RDH shuttle, remember it also serves the very important Littlehaven and Ifield

And also protects the Portsmouth and Southampton trains by preventing it from being necessary to put stop orders on them

 

[WizCastro197]

Funny that sometimes on the strike days the service is more reliable, probably because it's a more simplified one, no long end to end journeys like PBO to HRH!

The HRH-RDH shuttle, remember it also serves the very important Littlehaven and Ifield

Yes I had missed them out intentionally as I has originally thought littlehaven had received the Arun valley trains but now I know that it doesn’t and only gets them in peak.
Ifield I was aware but I would’ve thought people would’ve travelled to Crawley as it’s sort of the Earlswood or Redhill sort of situation as I thought ifield was part of Crawley or at least really close or have I got that completely wrong? I only compared it as Earlswood serve south Redhill and stretching it probably very easterly parts of Reigate

 

[Urban Gateline]

Yes I had missed them out intentionally as I has originally thought littlehaven had received the Arun valley trains but now I know that it doesn’t and only gets them in peak.
Ifield I was aware but I would’ve thought people would’ve travelled to Crawley as it’s sort of the Earlswood or Redhill thing as Earlswood serve south Redhill and stretching it probably very easterly parts of Reigate

And also protects the Portsmouth and Southampton trains by preventing it from being necessary to put stop orders on them

Indeed, those Arun Valley services are bad enough if they run just a few mins late, they end up delaying other trains between Ford and Barnham/Angmering/Littlehampton or other BML services if on the up direction!

 

[WizCastro197]

Indeed, those Arun Valley services are bad enough if they run just a few mins late, they end up delaying other trains between Ford and Barnham/Angmering/Littlehampton or other BML services if on the up direction!

Yes I believe even if the Train is a few minutes late and is heading to Portsmouth Harbour it will be terminated at either Portsmouth and Southsea or Fratton

 

[Urban Gateline]

Yes I believe even if the Train is a few minutes late and is heading to Portsmouth Harbour it will be terminated at either Portsmouth and Southsea or Fratton

It depends on the turnaround times, sometimes they only have 5mins at PMH to turnaround which is quite short-sighted and inevitably ends up with it leaving late if they don't spin it at Fratton, not sure about Southsea as I've never seen a 377 go to the low level platforms there, would be quite a sight! This all sounds off-topic but actually it just goes to show how far reaching disruption on Thameslink causes in other areas!

 

[Peregrine 4903]

It depends on the turnaround times, sometimes they only have 5mins at PMH to turnaround which is quite short-sighted and inevitably ends up with it leaving late if they don't spin it at Fratton, not sure about Southsea as I've never seen a 377 go to the low level platforms there, would be quite a sight! This all sounds off-topic but actually it just goes to show how far reaching disruption on Thameslink causes in other areas!

377s go to the low level platforms at Southsea all the time.

 

[Urban Gateline]

377s go to the low level platforms at Southsea all the time.

shows how often I go down that way! (only on some weekend days!)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Indeed, those Arun Valley services are bad enough if they run just a few mins late, they end up delaying other trains between Ford and Barnham/Angmering/Littlehampton or other BML services if on the up direction!

We can't continue to run the service to protect PPM which is what is happening today by abandoning service groups in their entirety on the Redhill corridor. The railway is here to convey ALL passengers not just the ones that can be moved on service groups which aren't directly impacted by an incident. The base service has already been thinned to reflect reduced demand so there needs to be a policy of stop orders to provide a service to all stations when incidents hit the network (which do seem to be getting more frequent i have to say).

 

[Minstral25]

This HRH-RDH shuttle, I don't think is very popular. Most people just want there regular direct Londons and probably don't want to change unless they have to. The Horsham shuttle only really helps passengers living near ELD, Salfords and Horley.

To be fair to them their service this weekend was actually quite good. For once I could take Thameslink (haven't in about a year, switched permanently to Southern to reach London ) without the worry of delays or cancellations as we have witnessed recently. I say Delays but my train on Sunday was delayed by about 5 minutes.

It runs in the 9J (PBO-HOR) times so doesn't call at Earlswood and Salfords generally - except when 9R's (GTW-BED) are cancelled. I think it extends from Redhill from Gatwick only to have somewhere to turn round as the 9R's use Gatwick's only spare platform.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

They should have keep the Bedford to Gatwick and cancell the Bedford to Brighton

 

[WizCastro197]

They should have keep the Bedford to Gatwick and cancell the Bedford to Brighton

No because then Brighton would only get 2tph to Cambridge and those trains can get very busy it’s best to have the greater capacity

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

No because then Brighton would only get 2tph to Cambridge and those trains can get very busy it’s best to have the greater capacity

Cheers

 

[Minstral25]

No because then Brighton would only get 2tph to Cambridge and those trains can get very busy it’s best to have the greater capacity

Yes but they still have a 2tph service if that happened. Also there are 2 Gatwick express per hour to Brighton as well.

Redhill lines need a change of service pattern. The PBO to HOR service should call at all stations from Coulsdon South to Horsham and the Bedford to Gatwick become a semi-fast service calling only at Purley, Redhill, Horley and Gatwick before terminating at Three Bridges.

When the PBO-HOR service fails the Bedford to Three bridges service could pick up the slack along the Redhill line and Arun Valley trains call at Littlehaven, Faygate and Ifield as necessary

 

[WizCastro197]

Seems as if the problem from yesterday is is still persistent today or it is a now a different piece of track that had defected.

 

[cle]

Yes but they still have a 2tph service if that happened. Also there are 2 Gatwick express per hour to Brighton as well.

Redhill lines need a change of service pattern. The PBO to HOR service should call at all stations from Coulsdon South to Horsham and the Bedford to Gatwick become a semi-fast service calling only at Purley, Redhill, Horley and Gatwick before terminating at Three Bridges.

When the PBO-HOR service fails the Bedford to Three bridges service could pick up the slack along the Redhill line and Arun Valley trains call at Littlehaven, Faygate and Ifield as necessary

Agree with this. Redhill needs faster services. But would switch the terminuses so that Horsham is the faster - and Three Bridges the slow.

 

[WizCastro197]

Agree with this. Redhill needs faster services. But would switch the terminuses so that Horsham is the faster - and Three Bridges the slow.

Why should Horsham be the fast? It already has fast southerns to Victoria. I am beginning to agree with the service change but GTR won't even think about changing it . If it is making a profit they wouldn't change it

 

[London Trains]

Redhill lines need a change of service pattern. The PBO to HOR service should call at all stations from Coulsdon South to Horsham and the Bedford to Gatwick become a semi-fast service calling only at Purley, Redhill, Horley and Gatwick before terminating at Three Bridges.

When the PBO-HOR service fails the Bedford to Three bridges service could pick up the slack along the Redhill line and Arun Valley trains call at Littlehaven, Faygate and Ifield as necessary.

Honestly I would probably resplit the Peterborough to Horsham service at London Bridge/Kings Cross but your service pattern is basically what is needed whether split or not. I would call it at Purley as well.

Fantasy i know, but I would also extend the Bedford to Gatwick to Brighton to reconnect Redhill with Brighton. South of London it would call at East Croydon, Purley, Redhill, Horley, Gatwick, Three Bridges, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Brighton.

 

[WizCastro197]

Honestly I would probably resplit the Peterborough to Horsham service at London Bridge/Kings Cross but your service pattern is basically what is needed whether split or not. I would call it at Purley as well.

Fantasy i know, but I would also extend the Bedford to Gatwick to Brighton to reconnect Redhill with Brighton. South of London it would call at East Croydon, Purley, Redhill, Horley, Gatwick, Three Bridges, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Brighton.

I think this service pattern does run in the early hours around midnight. But only Northbound


But in regard to the day, as much as I would love the reconnection to Brighton, It wouldn't work. On Sundays when the Portsmouth Harbours are booked they are already very busy by the time the reach Redhill and seeing how Brighton is such a big day trip destination, Trains would already be very busy from the Likes of ECR if they were routed via Redhill. And On the reverse Trains would be filled up at Brighton and become super overcrowded at Gatwick as evidenced within the past few months. It is a good idea from the standpoint of diversifying Redhill Destinations as they are really poor towards the south but I think this is the reason why RDH doesn't already have a direct Brighton Service.

But if it did come to fruition it would probably call at Preston park and Balcombe but as Minstral25 has said it is unlikely that this will ever happen

 

[Minstral25]

Honestly I would probably resplit the Peterborough to Horsham service at London Bridge/Kings Cross but your service pattern is basically what is needed whether split or not. I would call it at Purley as well.

Fantasy i know, but I would also extend the Bedford to Gatwick to Brighton to reconnect Redhill with Brighton. South of London it would call at East Croydon, Purley, Redhill, Horley, Gatwick, Three Bridges, Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Brighton.

The Peterborough to Horsham service south of the river replaced a London Bridge to Horsham Southern service that called all stations from Purley to Horsham, losing that was a big blow for some local travellers, especially many who lived at Earlswood and Salfords but worked in Crawley and Horsham meaning changes in their once direct service. However I would not re-split it into two services though as many journeys are to Blackfriars, Farringdon (now for Crossrail) and St Pancras - these direct journeys would be lost

Unfortunately the current service is not able to call at Purley because it is most of the day on the fast lines from East Croydon to Stoats Nest. Whatever changes could be made where the Thameslink trains go north of Coulsdon South requires them to follow same route or perform major surgery on the existing timetable.

Extending the Bedford's to Haywards Heath or even Brighton would be fantastic but I think unlikely. Getting connections at Haywards Heath instead of Gatwick (where changing is tricky due to Airport passengers) would be a great boon to many Redhill line travellers.

 

[WizCastro197]

Same Issue agin tonight. No Trains stopping southbound between RDH and GTW some will stop at Horley though

 

[Minstral25]

Same Issue agin tonight. No Trains stopping southbound between RDH and GTW some will stop at Horley though

Except the issue is South of Earlswood Stations - yet non-stop on part of line between Coulsdon and Earlswood which is 100% unnecessary

 

[WizCastro197]

Edit: I don’t think I read your post very well earlier so I’ve accidentally just said exactly what you have unintentionally. Apologies!

Y

If the defective track is south of Earlswood, why can’t trains be stopped there? As you’ve said completely unnecessary it almost feels if they are trying to make peoples daily commutes and lives harder?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2022 ==

Except the issue is South of Earlswood Stations - yet non-stop on part of line between Coulsdon and Earlswood which is 100% unnecessary

Is it on the fast line or slow?
Because if it is slow trains can still stop as it isn’t preventing immediate trains from running on the route?
And if it is on the slow, how are express as southern call them affected?


Despite GTR and Network Rail should’ve sorted this out over night? This issue was raised on the Morning yesterday so they have had almost 2 days to fix it? Shouldn’t a track inspection not take more than a day let alone a few hours?

Unless it’s a different part of track?

 

[Bald Rick]

Unless it’s a different part of track?

it is a different stretch if track.

 

[Minstral25]

it is a different stretch if track.

Agree, but I still don’t understand why trains could not stop at Earlswood P2. Even the track diagram issued by Thameslink seems to indicate they could stop in P2 at Earlswood. 1B06 is about to cross the ladder to slow lines as all quarry trains did which is after Earlswood station.