Who can edit Customer Information Screens?

[Fred26]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #17 originally in this thread.

Of course its staffed 24/7. Trains run all day 24/7, and get cancelled 24/7 as well. They're TOC employees, rather than 'representatives'.

The CIS desk isn't manned all day.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Of course its staffed 24/7. Trains run all day 24/7, and get cancelled 24/7 as well. They're TOC employees, rather than 'representatives'.

yes the TOC running controllers are but im not sure the team that can intervene on CIS are staffed every shift like nights.

Yes my use of representative was meant to be TOC employees used that description as its an NR control with the TOC team embedded.

 

[Surreytraveller]

yes the TOC running controllers are but im not sure the team that can intervene on CIS are staffed every shift like nights.

Yes my use of representative was meant to be TOC employees used that description as its an NR control with the TOC team embedded.

CIS has to be staffed, otherwise how will alterations be input?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

CIS has to be staffed, otherwise how will alterations be input?

well even during the day they seem incapable of keeping it upto date. Station control points can't change it and i can tell you the team at Redhill tear there hair out when service is purtubated is CIS bares no reflecting to what is happening lulling people into a false sense of security.

 

[Fred26]

CIS has to be staffed, otherwise how will alterations be input?

Anyone in control can edit the CIS, but for the bulk of the day there is a specific CIS Controller.

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well even during the day they seem incapable of keeping it upto date. Station control points can't change it and i can tell you the team at Redhill tear there hair out when service is purtubated is CIS bares no reflecting to what is happening lulling people into a false sense of security.

Some stations can edit their screens/PA, but it is very restrictive and access is only granted if requested and approved.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Anyone in control can edit the CIS, but for the bulk of the day there is a specific CIS Controller.

Not sure about 'anyone'

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2022 ==

well even during the day they seem incapable of keeping it upto date. Station control points can't change it and i can tell you the team at Redhill tear there hair out when service is purtubated is CIS bares no reflecting to what is happening lulling people into a false sense of security.

That's the problem with everything being centralised and one person trying to handle everything

 

[Fred26]

Not sure about 'anyone'

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2022 ==

What do you mean?

 

[Surreytraveller]

What do you mean?

Not everyone in control can edit the CIS

 

[Horizon22]

Not everyone in control can edit the CIS

Anyone theoretically could if the terminal was open and available to use and they’d been trained on it. Some other industry systems also directly feed the CIS. understanding is generally almost all TOCs have someone available on a 24/7 basis, but it may well be reduced numbers on nights shifts or someone doing two roles etc. Trains run past 2300 and before 0530, which would necessitate some short of night shift.

 

[Fred26]

Not everyone in control can edit the CIS

Yes, I read what you said. I was after an explanation.
Who do you think can't edit the CIS?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Yes, I read what you said. I was after an explanation.
Who do you think can't edit the CIS?

Anyone who's not trained on it or who doesn't have access to it. I can't imagine controllers would. People too busy doing their own jobs to worry about other people's

 

[Fred26]

Anyone who's not trained on it or who doesn't have access to it. I can't imagine controllers would. People too busy doing their own jobs to worry about other people's

They're all trained to use it.

 

[Surreytraveller]

They're all trained to use it.

Really? How would you know?

 

[Fred26]

Really? How would you know?

CIS control is the first step in control. Some may not use it, but it doesn't mean they can't, or they don't have access, just that there's others lower down the totem who do it for them.
As a system it's easy enough to work out the basics just by clicking around, but it takes longer to master.

 

[Surreytraveller]

CIS control is the first step in control. Some may not use it, but it doesn't mean they can't, or they don't have access, just that there's others lower down the totem who do it for them.
As a system it's easy enough to work out the basics just by clicking around, but it takes longer to master.

Not really. Plenty of people end up in control from other areas without going through CIS
Then CIS systems change, so even those who started in CIS won't be familiar with a newer system

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2022 ==

What you've also got to realise is Ops and CIS are separate departments in GTR, so CIS management won't want Ops staff touching the CIS

 

[Fred26]

Not really. Plenty of people end up in control from other areas without going through CIS
Then CIS systems change, so even those who started in CIS won't be familiar with a newer system

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2022 ==

What you've also got to realise is Ops and CIS are separate departments in GTR, so CIS management won't want Ops staff touching the CIS

I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I'll agree to disagree.

Fair enough

 

[Horizon22]

CIS control is the first step in control. Some may not use it, but it doesn't mean they can't, or they don't have access, just that there's others lower down the totem who do it for them.
As a system it's easy enough to work out the basics just by clicking around, but it takes longer to master.

This isn’t true.

There are very broadly customer information roles and train operations roles at most TOCs, the former paying less than the latter (unless your a manager of the team). They may all sit within the “Control” team, but the competencies will be different. Whilst true that many many have progressed up internally, it is by no means a rule and have met many who have gone straight into the train operations / train service management role from other internal rail roles or other external control roles (e.g. emergency services, aviation, buses).

Also you can disagree, but it isn’t factually accurate.

 

[markymark2000]

I think it's always a shame that CIS can't be updated more locally. So many instances, mostly with Rail Replacement, where details are wrong or completely missing. This is worse when it's an emergency bus, all CIS Summary screens show 'cancelled', that's it. At larger stations, you have to go onto the platform screen where it shows the train and in text underneath, it says 'bus replacement'. People aren't going to go to the platform to check the boards though for a cancelled train. When the train due time has gone, the entry goes off the screen and so doesn't take into account the fact the bus takes slightly longer.
You've also got the instances where a train is split (TFW often do this on their distance trains. Terminate at Shrewsbury, restart from Cardiff) and the CIS screens can't cope, they then show one cancelled and one running at the exact same time, on the exact same route, same stops, everything. It just can't cope with the fact that the train is split. Needlessly confusing passengers.


Information on station front CIS at times of disruption is ridiculous. Certainly one of the main reasons why people say 'We need better information at times of disruption'. Someone needs to get a grip of the CIS systems.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I think it's always a shame that CIS can't be updated more locally. So many instances, mostly with Rail Replacement, where details are wrong or completely missing. This is worse when it's an emergency bus, all CIS Summary screens show 'cancelled', that's it. At larger stations, you have to go onto the platform screen where it shows the train and in text underneath, it says 'bus replacement'. People aren't going to go to the platform to check the boards though for a cancelled train. When the train due time has gone, the entry goes off the screen and so doesn't take into account the fact the bus takes slightly longer.
You've also got the instances where a train is split (TFW often do this on their distance trains. Terminate at Shrewsbury, restart from Cardiff) and the CIS screens can't cope, they then show one cancelled and one running at the exact same time, on the exact same route, same stops, everything. It just can't cope with the fact that the train is split. Needlessly confusing passengers.


Information on station front CIS at times of disruption is ridiculous. Certainly one of the main reasons why people say 'We need better information at times of disruption'. Someone needs to get a grip of the CIS systems.

Stations will speak to the Signaller locally, but are unable to alter the platforms on the CIS without phoning control during disruption. Its daft. Ideally control will be watching for platform alterations, but one person cannot watch the whole network at any given moment. It makes the whole system look disjointed

 

[Urban Gateline]

Stations will speak to the Signaller locally, but are unable to alter the platforms on the CIS without phoning control during disruption. Its daft. Ideally control will be watching for platform alterations, but one person cannot watch the whole network at any given moment. It makes the whole system look disjointed

Indeed, but that is why Hub stations have access to the LICC to update the CIS, stations such as East Croydon, where they have someone at a station control point or St Albans where the Team Leader's Office has access to it, they can update CIS of other stations along their line if they have time.

 

[zwk500]

Stations will speak to the Signaller locally, but are unable to alter the platforms on the CIS without phoning control during disruption. Its daft. Ideally control will be watching for platform alterations, but one person cannot watch the whole network at any given moment. It makes the whole system look disjointed

Some bigger stations have terminals to eidt the CIS - I've seen Wolverton phone MK to ask for duplicate trains to be taken off the board

 

[greaterwest]

Stations will speak to the Signaller locally, but are unable to alter the platforms on the CIS without phoning control during disruption. Its daft. Ideally control will be watching for platform alterations, but one person cannot watch the whole network at any given moment. It makes the whole system look disjointed

Certainly at the "hub" stations on SWR and GWR networks such as Reading, Bristol TM, Basingstoke, Woking and Guildford, this is not the case and the staff have local operators with direct control over the CIS at these and surrounding stations.

 

[Fred26]

This isn’t true.

There are very broadly customer information roles and train operations roles at most TOCs, the former paying less than the latter (unless your a manager of the team). They may all sit within the “Control” team, but the competencies will be different. Whilst true that many many have progressed up internally, it is by no means a rule and have met many who have gone straight into the train operations / train service management role from other internal rail roles or other external control roles (e.g. emergency services, aviation, buses).

Also you can disagree, but it isn’t factually accurate.

That's not what I'm saying.

I disagree because to say that there are GTR staff in Three Bridges ROC who don't know how to use LICC, is factually wrong. I don't care what job they do, or how they got there and that wasn't what I was saying at all.
LICC isn't a complicated system to learn the basics. (Probably a couple of hours to learn). Any of those staff can (and do) make basic alterations - platforms, cancellations etc. More complex jobs like inputting new trains takes more knowledge.

 

[Surreytraveller]

That's not what I'm saying.

I disagree because to say that there are GTR staff in Three Bridges ROC who don't know how to use LICC, is factually wrong. I don't care what job they do, or how they got there and that wasn't what I was saying at all.
LICC isn't a complicated system to learn the basics. (Probably a couple of hours to learn). Any of those staff can (and do) make basic alterations - platforms, cancellations etc. More complex jobs like inputting new trains takes more knowledge.

May I ask how you know that all GTR staff in Three Bridges ROC know how to use the CIS system?

 

[Fred26]

May I ask how you know that all GTR staff in Three Bridges ROC know how to use the CIS system?

No.

I don't know why this is so controversial.

 

[Surreytraveller]

No.

I don't know why this is so controversial.

Because you're wrong

 

[greaterwest]

Because you're wrong

I'll +1 this comment. Other functions within control will be far too busy dealing with their own jobs to even need to be worried about operating the CIS themselves. There is a whole dedicated team for this, who will be fully trained on its' use. The service managers will not be directly trained on it especially if they have never previously worked the CIS desk.

 

[Fred26]

Because you're wrong

I agree to disagree.

I'll +1 this comment. Other functions within control will be far too busy dealing with their own jobs to even need to be worried about operating the CIS themselves. There is a whole dedicated team for this, who will be fully trained on its' use. The service managers will not be directly trained on it especially if they have never previously worked the CIS desk.

That's not what I'm saying.

 

[Ibex]

They're all trained to use it.

I assume you're basing this on personal experience at a specific TOC?

Where I work, only the Info Controllers (8) are trained on CIS and have a log in for it, nobody on any other desk (8 other desks) has had training or given credentials for the info systems.

The major stations all have an unrestricted CIS terminal (some have dedicated announcers still) and can edit everything at their station and in their area that Control can.