Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[Geordie driver]

Jesmond, I believe is listed, so not sure what sure they can do with the site, would another operator buy it (I'm sure there is at least one, so Arriva North East garage, now owned by another operator

I seem to recall the frontage is listed, it could be retained. There is no way another operator would want it, far too expensive because of where it is, it will be housing.Grade 2 listed means nothing once the money starts talking.

I seem to recall it was originally a tram depot and the largest single span roof in Europe when it was built, no pillars for the drivers to hit.

I wonder if the wooden doors are original, they haven't spent much on that place since I started there nearly 40 years ago.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I seem to recall the frontage is listed, it could be retained. There is no way another operator would want it, far too expensive because of where it is, it will be housing.Grade 2 listed means nothing once the money starts talking.

I seem to recall it was originally a tram depot and the largest single span roof in Europe when it was built, no pillars for the drivers to hit.

I wonder if the wooden doors are original, they haven't spent much on that place since I started there nearly 40 years ago.

Jesmond was never a tram depot. It was built for United in 1930 - the tram depots in Newcastle were at Byker and Wingrove (which still stands). It was built in a distinctive style (designed just prior to Tilling getting United) with that frontage as opposed to the standard Tilling designs and style such as Gallowgate.

Grade 2 listing provides only partial protection so they may well propose to retain the facade. It's a shame especially when you see 60 vehicles rattling around inside; when Gallowgate and Whitley Bay closed, I think it was over 100

 

[Geordie driver]

Jesmond was never a tram depot. It was built for United in 1930 - the tram depots in Newcastle were at Byker and Wingrove (which still stands). It was built in a distinctive style (designed just prior to Tilling getting United) with that frontage as opposed to the standard Tilling designs and style such as Gallowgate.

Grade 2 listing provides only partial protection so they may well propose to retain the facade. It's a shame especially when you see 60 vehicles rattling around inside; when Gallowgate and Whitley Bay closed, I think it was over 100

My mistake regarding it's origin, I think I might have dreamt it.!

I hadn't thought that they could run the 685 by getting a 1 hour express from Blyth or Ashington then 2 1/2 hours to Carlisle, with your break being taken at Carlisle. That would be the sort of run out that might be able to tempt me back to bus driving, but not at a tenner an hour mind.

 

[Megafuss]

How about a completly "out there" suggestion of a Stagecoach Cumbria outstation at Walkergate/Slatyford!

 

[markymark2000]

We are all fixated on depots but couldn't Arriva just simply have a 'sign on point' in Newcastle City Centre? The only issue with this would be bus storage. Depending on the drivers duties, the buses could be ran to/from the depot by another driver who is going back to Blyth anyway.

This would depend on how depots will be doing driver changes for the other Jesmond routes else you'd need to send a driver as a passenger to Newcastle purely for them to bring a bus back which wouldn't work out very efficient.

 

[RELL6L]

I hadn't thought of running the 685 with driver breaks at Carlisle. Superficially that's clever but in practice it would mean Stagecoach having to provide an extra driver (and presumably an extra vehicle) to head out when the first Arriva bus arrives in Carlisle. This would mean a 6 hour cycle instead of a 5 hour cycle. So you could then run smoothly for either 12 or 18 hours. Currently it is 15 hours (3 cycles) which works. Outside that you'd have to run from either direction to Hexham and change there, which is possible, but if you run on a 6 hour cycle with 3 Arriva and 3 Stagecoach then the first Arriva from Newcastle to Hexham after the cycles finish arrives an hour before the first Stagecoach from Carlisle to Hexham, so it really doesn't work. And why would Stagecoach co-operate anyway when they could so easily take the whole thing by operating from one of their Newcastle depots. You don't need to change the times at all then.

I dare say an outstation in Newcastle would work as opposed to a full depot, with buses cycling to Ashington or Blyth during the day, but that is complicated (especially the smaller buses) and of course relies on finding premises. And unless the predicted recession hits Newcastle very quickly I really don't believe the drivers will put up with travelling out of the city to work for Arriva's pay.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We are all fixated on depots but couldn't Arriva just simply have a 'sign on point' in Newcastle City Centre? The only issue with this would be bus storage. Depending on the drivers duties, the buses could be ran to/from the depot by another driver who is going back to Blyth anyway.

This would depend on how depots will be doing driver changes for the other Jesmond routes else you'd need to send a driver as a passenger to Newcastle purely for them to bring a bus back which wouldn't work out very efficient.

You just wouldn't do that. The first bus of the day (even NIS from Blyth) would then have a challenge on drivers' hours with the five hour cycle time. With Blyth being an hour away by bus (bit less if NIS), it's just too far.

I hadn't thought of running the 685 with driver breaks at Carlisle. Superficially that's clever but in practice it would mean Stagecoach having to provide an extra driver (and presumably an extra vehicle) to head out when the first Arriva bus arrives in Carlisle. This would mean a 6 hour cycle instead of a 5 hour cycle. So you could then run smoothly for either 12 or 18 hours. Currently it is 15 hours (3 cycles) which works. Outside that you'd have to run from either direction to Hexham and change there, which is possible, but if you run on a 6 hour cycle with 3 Arriva and 3 Stagecoach then the first Arriva from Newcastle to Hexham after the cycles finish arrives an hour before the first Stagecoach from Carlisle to Hexham, so it really doesn't work. And why would Stagecoach co-operate anyway when they could so easily take the whole thing by operating from one of their Newcastle depots. You don't need to change the times at all then.

I dare say an outstation in Newcastle would work as opposed to a full depot, with buses cycling to Ashington or Blyth during the day, but that is complicated (especially the smaller buses) and of course relies on finding premises. And unless the predicted recession hits Newcastle very quickly I really don't believe the drivers will put up with travelling out of the city to work for Arriva's pay.

I can't see Stagecoach providing an extra vehicle into the cycle for Arriva's benefit. Overall, it's a 16% cost increase on fixed and driver costs for no other benefit than Arriva realising the value of the Jesmond site.

Splitting it at Hexham is probably the most sensible option. Stagecoach gets an additional board and exclusivity west of Hexham. Arriva keeps two boards that they could interwork with something like the X9 to/from Blyth. I guess we'll see soon enough.

 

[markymark2000]

You just wouldn't do that. The first bus of the day (even NIS from Blyth) would then have a challenge on drivers' hours with the five hour cycle time. With Blyth being an hour away by bus (bit less if NIS), it's just too far.

It wouldn't affect the 685 drivers, infact, it's more likely to help them out driving hours wise as they won't have to drive the bus anywhere other than the 685 route. They would use the sign on point in the city and a normal Blyth driver would get the bus into Newcastle before going off and doing something else, whatever that may be. It depends on how Blyth do driver swaps as the shunt driver would have to get somewhere else to do a duty or something.

 

[Statto]

Or operate the 685 from Durham depot but not interworking with any other routes, Newcastle seems easier to get to from Durham, than Blyth, drivers will have to be ferried in from Durham to Newcastle, with some buses for the 685 running dead

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It wouldn't affect the 685 drivers, infact, it's more likely to help them out driving hours wise as they won't have to drive the bus anywhere other than the 685 route. They would use the sign on point in the city and a normal Blyth driver would get the bus into Newcastle before going off and doing something else, whatever that may be. It depends on how Blyth do driver swaps as the shunt driver would have to get somewhere else to do a duty or something.

So you'd have a jockey driver bringing in a bus, then getting an X10 back. At the end of the day, another jockey driver comes in on the X10, and takes the finished 685 car back to Blyth. That would happen three times.

You'd also have the hassle of covering holidays for about 7/8 outbased drivers. I just don't see it - sorry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2022 ==

Or operate the 685 from Durham depot but not interworking with any other routes, Newcastle seems easier to get to from Durham, than Blyth, drivers will have to be ferried in from Durham to Newcastle, with some buses for the 685 running dead

Timewise, it's the same via either a crew ferry or the service car. Mileage wise, Blyth is closer.

 

[RELL6L]

You just wouldn't do that. The first bus of the day (even NIS from Blyth) would then have a challenge on drivers' hours with the five hour cycle time. With Blyth being an hour away by bus (bit less if NIS), it's just too far.

I can't see Stagecoach providing an extra vehicle into the cycle for Arriva's benefit. Overall, it's a 16% cost increase on fixed and driver costs for no other benefit than Arriva realising the value of the Jesmond site.

Splitting it at Hexham is probably the most sensible option. Stagecoach gets an additional board and exclusivity west of Hexham. Arriva keeps two boards that they could interwork with something like the X9 to/from Blyth. I guess we'll see soon enough.

It wouldn’t be an increase in driver costs for Stagecoach as they would still do 6 round trips, not extra mileage, but it would mean an extra vehicle out while the Arriva ones were parked up on breaks. I agree it isn’t going to happen.

 

[londonteacher]

Arriva Kent and Essex to strike on 4 dates.

BBC article about Arriva strike.

Arriva bus drivers in Kent and Essex are set to strike after they turned down a pay offer, union officials said.

About 800 drivers will stage a walk out, although official strike dates have yet to be announced.

It comes after Unite said Arriva offered a rise to bus drivers of 7.8%, which the union described as a "substantial pay cut" amid a UK inflation rate of 10.1%.

Arriva has been approached for comment by the BBC.

Drivers at three depots in Essex and four in Kent will walk out
Unite's general secretary Sharon Graham said: "Offering a pay cut presented as a rise is completely unacceptable. Arriva can well afford to return with a better deal."

Drivers based at depots in Colchester, Harlow, Southend, Gillingham, Maidstone, Gravesend and Tunbridge Wells will take part in the walkout.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see that Arriva North East has put into service some new 72 plate fleet. The X21 has new e400mmc at Ashington whilst I think the 57 has new e200mmc. Sadly, the X21 ones are to standard bus spec rather than the Sapphire spec that people have enjoyed prior.

 

[darloscott]

I see that Arriva North East has put into service some new 72 plate fleet. The X21 has new e400mmc at Ashington whilst I think the 57 has new e200mmc. Sadly, the X21 ones are to standard bus spec rather than the Sapphire spec that people have enjoyed prior.

They’re for the X14, X15 and X18 long term. 19 (all Ashington) new Enviro400MMC are almost all in service now and they will be joined by 16 baby E200MMCs… I believe split 5 to Ashington for service 57 and 11 to Jesmond for 46/51 & 55.

 

[py_megapixel]

I see that Arriva North East has put into service some new 72 plate fleet. The X21 has new e400mmc at Ashington whilst I think the 57 has new e200mmc. Sadly, the X21 ones are to standard bus spec rather than the Sapphire spec that people have enjoyed prior.

Presumably still with ADL's fancy own-brand seat design, though? (A lot nicer than the flimsy Esteban ones Arriva used to spec)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They’re for the X14, X15 and X18 long term. 19 (all Ashington) new Enviro400MMC are almost all in service now and they will be joined by 16 baby E200MMCs… I believe split 5 to Ashington for service 57 and 11 to Jesmond for 46/51 & 55.

Thanks for that update - sadly, the bus seats aren't exactly much more welcome on those routes, esp the X18. Quite the investment in dinky e200s

 

[Roger1973]

We are all fixated on depots but couldn't Arriva just simply have a 'sign on point' in Newcastle City Centre? The only issue with this would be bus storage. Depending on the drivers duties, the buses could be ran to/from the depot by another driver who is going back to Blyth anyway.

I don't know that part of the country at all, but having been involved in scheduling elsewhere, I'm not entirely convinced.

Having a remote sign on / off point (possibly combined with a canteen / mess room) does occasionally work - depending on the length of route, having meal reliefs at a remote point (and a small number of drivers based there) can make the duties more efficient (a simple example would be a route where one round trip is not long enough for half a day's work, but two round trips would be more than a legal spell of work - in this case, each duty being 3 round trips, with the meal break at the distant end of the route after 1.5 round trips is ideal.)

But the number of middle duties that would naturally end up as both starting and finishing at remote point is likely to be less than you'd imagine. And of course there's a cost of having premises in the town centre for this, unless you go for completely remote working and sign on / off via smartphone or whatever.

Another option of course is to force drivers to sign on at depot and off at remote point (or vice versa) which tends not to go down very well, as (unless both sites are well served by public transport and / or early and late staff buses that go to where drivers live) this effectively adds a chunk of unpaid travelling time to each driver's working day. (I believe this is part of one or two current disputes in the industry.)

Also, there are practical issues with such a remote sign on / off point - is it big enough to warrant a supervisor? if not, then drivers are booking on with no oversight of whether they are properly dressed and not obviously 'under the influence'. And if it gets to duty start time and a driver has not reported on duty, and the depot that might have a spare driver or two is several miles away, that's a journey lost and a bus stranded. And then what about drivers paying in / handing in lost property (and so on) when they sign off at remote point?

I understand there are a few routes in London with some element of remote working (or where there is an allocation of a few drivers but no buses at a garage at the end of a route remote from the operating garage) but paying in cash is not something they have to think about.

 

[Andyh82]

One point is that Arriva already have premises in Newcastle City Centre, the former travel shop which I believe contains some sort of mess room/break area upstairs already

 

[Geordie driver]

One point is that Arriva already have premises in Newcastle City Centre, the former travel shop which I believe contains some sort of mess room/break area upstairs already

There is a tiny box room up the flight of stairs, of the " canteen" ( it was never a canteen, no food was served) with a couple of toilets. The size of this canteen was a constant bone of contention as you would come off the road for a break and find there wasn't enough room to sit down. This is why you often see drivers apparently hanging around the bus station.

Not sure if Arriva own these anyway, they were part of the redevelopment mostly paid for by Marks and Spencer, I always assumed they were rented.

Services out of Jesmond now are shambolic, I need to use them later today and have no confidence my bus will be running, it's a match day too. Massive queues yesterday as 2 out of 3 were missing and the one bus running was a single decker.

 

[RELL6L]

I see that Arriva North East has put into service some new 72 plate fleet. The X21 has new e400mmc at Ashington whilst I think the 57 has new e200mmc. Sadly, the X21 ones are to standard bus spec rather than the Sapphire spec that people have enjoyed prior.

Top marks for getting all 19 72-reg E400s out in revenue earning service on 1 September, even if one didn’t make it to 8.30. I see they have gravitated more to their intended X14, X15 and X18 routes today having stayed nearer the depot on Thursday. I hope they have the power and speed for three routes. It looks like the B7TLs have all gf even withdrawn and some older E400s moved to Jesmond for the 43/44/45. Is that the long term plan or are further changes likely?

 

[LOL The Irony]

I see that Arriva North East has put into service some new 72 plate fleet. The X21 has new e400mmc at Ashington whilst I think the 57 has new e200mmc. Sadly, the X21 ones are to standard bus spec rather than the Sapphire spec that people have enjoyed prior.

I thought that all new Arriva buses were being ordered to Sapphire spec and they were dropping the brand as a result?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought that all new Arriva buses were being ordered to Sapphire spec and they were dropping the brand as a result?

These have USBs and wifi but only have standard seats. Not good when average journey durations tend to be higher!

 

[darloscott]

Top marks for getting all 19 72-reg E400s out in revenue earning service on 1 September, even if one didn’t make it to 8.30. I see they have gravitated more to their intended X14, X15 and X18 routes today having stayed nearer the depot on Thursday. I hope they have the power and speed for three routes. It looks like the B7TLs have all gf even withdrawn and some older E400s moved to Jesmond for the 43/44/45. Is that the long term plan or are further changes likely?

Some older E400s have moved south from Jesmond to Durham too, binning off older Volvo B7s down there as well.

 

[317 forever]

These have USBs and wifi but only have standard seats. Not good when average journey durations tend to be higher!

Yes, i believe their new buses are generally to MAX rather than Sapphire standard. Hence the MAX band disappearing as these buses are repainted.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, i believe their new buses are generally to MAX rather than Sapphire standard. Hence the MAX band disappearing as these buses are repainted.

Even the MAX vehicles had high backed seats.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Even the MAX vehicles had high backed seats.

By 'high backed seats' are you referring to the head rests?

 

[Kuyoyo]

These have USBs and wifi but only have standard seats. Not good when average journey durations tend to be higher!

Even the MAX vehicles had high backed seats.

By 'high backed seats' are you referring to the head rests?

The reason for the lack of headrests fitted to the new stock is down to the amount of damage to them within the fleet. Of course, if the ADL Smart Seats had been fitted instead of Civics they'd have been headrests but a bit too late for that now.

 

[Geordie driver]

Talking to an old chum yesterday, he is still driving out of Jesmond, must be about 30 years now.

They are 40 drivers short as people leave, stagecoach are taking loads. Still no word of who is going where when it closes.

Management begging drivers to work overtime, mind, still flat rate and clocked off between runs. Wonder why they are struggling?

He is holding on as he thinks he might get a big redundancy payment. More chance of me winning slimmer of the year

 

[RogerOut]

Talking to an old chum yesterday, he is still driving out of Jesmond, must be about 30 years now.

They are 40 drivers short as people leave, stagecoach are taking loads. Still no word of who is going where when it closes.

Management begging drivers to work overtime, mind, still flat rate and clocked off between runs. Wonder why they are struggling?

He is holding on as he thinks he might get a big redundancy payment. More chance of me winning slimmer of the year

Presumably Arriva will have to change if lots of drivers go to Stagecoach?
Whats the pay difference between the two ?

 

[Geordie driver]

Presumably Arriva will have to change if lots of drivers go to Stagecoach?
Whats the pay difference between the two ?

Drivers are leaving because Jesmond is closing and they don't want to move to Blyth or Ashington.