Birmingham Snow Hill/St Chad's

[BanburyBlue]

Hi all,

I've just moved to a new office next door to Snow Hill Station.

1, I was a little surprised that there is no full interchange between Snow Hill station and St Chad's metro station. To get to St Chad's you can leave Snow Hill by the Livery Street exit, turn left under the railway bridge and left again to climb back up to St Chad's metro. I'm just a little surprised that when they moved the metro out of Snow Hill station, a proper interchange wasn't considered? Although I guess if you go out of the main entrance at Snow Hill, you're not a million miles away from Bull Street metro station.

2, Are there any plans to reinstate platform 4 at Snow Hill?

Thanks

 

[duncanp]

Hi all,

I've just moved to a new office next door to Snow Hill Station.

1, I was a little surprised that there is no full interchange between Snow Hill station and St Chad's metro station. To get to St Chad's you can leave Snow Hill by the Livery Street exit, turn left under the railway bridge and left again to climb back up to St Chad's metro. I'm just a little surprised that when they moved the metro out of Snow Hill station, a proper interchange wasn't considered? Although I guess if you go out of the main entrance at Snow Hill, you're not a million miles away from Bull Street metro station.

2, Are there any plans to reinstate platform 4 at Snow Hill?

Thanks

This is a right pain in the **** and is really annoying.

The official interchange between tram and train at Snow Hill is via Bull Street metro stop, ehich might look easy on paper, but causes problems for those with mobility issues or heavy luggage.

I cannot see any reason why a no barrier interchange can be created from the tram stop at St Chads to the National Rail platforms at Snow Hill.

The lack of this interchange can't be due to revenue protection reasons, because there are barrier free interchanges between tram and train at Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns. So people who want to sneak on to the train without a ticket can do so at these two stations.

If revenue protection is the reason, then you could have a ticket machine and some barriers at the entrance to the National Rail platforms, together with remotely monitored CCTV cameras, which is exactly what happens at the Livery Street entrance

I also can't see why constructing such an interchange would cost a huge amount of money.

As far as I am aware, there are no plans to change this situation, as convenience for the passengers doesn't seem to matter any more.

 

[The exile]

Presumably until the recent tram extension, most of the likely interchanges would have been covered by the two other stations mentioned above (except for trains starting / terminating at Snow Hill for the Tyseley direction).

 

[BanburyBlue]

This is a right pain in the **** and is really annoying.

The official interchange between tram and train at Snow Hill is via Bull Street metro stop, ehich might look easy on paper, but causes problems for those with mobility issues or heavy luggage.

I cannot see any reason why a no barrier interchange can be created from the tram stop at St Chads to the National Rail platforms at Snow Hill.

The lack of this interchange can't be due to revenue protection reasons, because there are barrier free interchanges between tram and train at Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns. So people who want to sneak on to the train without a ticket can do so at these two stations.

If revenue protection is the reason, then you could have a ticket machine and some barriers at the entrance to the National Rail platforms, together with remotely monitored CCTV cameras, which is exactly what happens at the Livery Street entrance

I also can't see why constructing such an interchange would cost a huge amount of money.

As far as I am aware, there are no plans to change this situation, as convenience for the passengers doesn't seem to matter any more.

Okay thanks.

It just seems so obvious... move the metro station so it's directly outside a mainline station - let's have an interchange. I must admit I haven't checked around Snow Hill, but unless you knew where it was, Bull Street isn't obvious.

 

[snowball]

2, Are there any plans to reinstate platform 4 at Snow Hill?

There has certainly been talk of it but I don't know whether there are firm plans.

 

[urbophile]

I was surprised that the tram stop outside New Street station is not called by that name. Nor is it particularly well signposted from inside the station. Seems as if they want to deter intermodal travel.

 

[45041]

Hi

I used New Street Station during the Commonwealth Games and used the Midland Metro to get from there to Centenary Square (I did not know how far it was away and in really easy walking distance) but I found there to be plenty of signage with arrows directing you towards the metro stop at New Street/Grand Central

 

[duncanp]

Okay thanks.

It just seems so obvious... move the metro station so it's directly outside a mainline station - let's have an interchange. I must admit I haven't checked around Snow Hill, but unless you knew where it was, Bull Street isn't obvious.

The official interchange is only via Bull Street metro stop because the powers that be couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery and construct a proper interchange between tram and train via the stop at St Chad's.

I was surprised that the tram stop outside New Street station is not called by that name. Nor is it particularly well signposted from inside the station. Seems as if they want to deter intermodal travel.

There is signage inside New Street station directing you to the "Metro", but it is not all that prominent, and not everyone would realise that the "Metro" is in fact the tram.

 

[The Planner]

There has certainly been talk of it but I don't know whether there are firm plans.

It hasn't died, design is ongoing.

 

[New York Giant]

You could always change at the Jewellery Qtr.

Edit: didn't see that this had been implied in post #2

 

[BanburyBlue]

The official interchange is only via Bull Street metro stop because the powers that be couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery and construct a proper interchange between tram and train via the stop at St Chad's.



There is signage inside New Street station directing you to the "Metro", but it is not all that prominent, and not everyone would realise that the "Metro" is in fact the tram.

I guess the question is then, why bother. If the official interchange in Bull Street, and with St Paul's literally a few 100 yards further down the line, why was St Chad's needed.

 

[duncanp]

I guess the question is then, why bother. If the official interchange in Bull Street, and with St Paul's literally a few 100 yards further down the line, why was St Chad's needed.

The purpose of St Chads metro stop is not just for interchange between train and tram.

There is a bus stop nearby, and you can get off a number of bus routes and change on to the tram.

It also serves the local area, including the Roman Catholic cathedral across the road after which the area was named.

But the lack of a proper interchange between train and tram is a major annoyance.

 

[gg1]

You could always change at the Jewellery Qtr.

Edit: didn't see that this had been implied in post #2

You can't if you want to change from Chiltern services to the Metro, not directly anyway.

I'm genuinely amazed this situation exists, I always assumed the primary (though not the only) reason for opening the St Chads tram stop in the first place was as a new heavy rail interchange following the Metro extension through the city centre.

 

[Sprinter107]

I remember reading somewhere a while ago that St Chad's was the least used stop on the system. Any bus route passing St Chad's can be accessed from near either Bull Street or St Paul's.

 

[duncanp]

I remember reading somewhere a while ago that St Chad's was the least used stop on the system. Any bus route passing St Chad's can be accessed from near either Bull Street or St Paul's.

All the more reason to construct a proper interchange between train and tram there, which would no doubt increase the usage figures.

 

[Sprinter107]

All the more reason to construct a proper interchange between train and tram there, which would no doubt increase the usage figures.

Maybe. But I suppose people coming from the Stourbridge direction can change at The Hawthorns or Jewellery Quarter, and passengers coming in from the Solihill direction will be able to access the tram when it eventually serves Moor Street. So, is it worth spending all that money at St Chads. Ive never seen many people use that stop at all when I've been on the tram. Sometimes, nobody has boarded or left the tram at all when I've been on it.

 

[P Binnersley]

A new entrance has been proposed. "New Snow Hill Station entrance to give passengers direct link between trains and trams".

The scheme involves opening up another of the arches under the Victorian viaduct that carries trains and the West Midland Metro trams into the city centre.

At the moment passengers wanting to get from the West Midlands Metro stop at St Chads to trains in Snow Hill Station have to walk down a flight of external steps and then along A4440 Queensway before turning into Livery Street and accessing the station through its second entrance.

Alternatively they have to walk past the Snowhill Three, Two and One office developments and into the main Snow Hill entrance.

The new third entrance will remove both of these external walks and instead give passengers a direct way into the station from the tram stop. Work on the new entrance is set to start in summer 2019, and it will link into the existing Livery Street entrance to the station.

I'm not aware on anything actually happening.

 

[duncanp]

A new entrance has been proposed. "New Snow Hill Station entrance to give passengers direct link between trains and trams".


I'm not aware on anything actually happening.

Yes.

The article says construction was due to start in the summer of 2019 (ie. before COVID) and three years later nothing has happened.

 

[Fidelis]

Work did indeed start in 2019 in the ground between Lionel Street and the B4100 dual carriageway alongside the Snow Hill station platform viaduct with ground cleared and structural steel erected, but paused with the 2020 Covid lockdown.

 

[tomuk]

Work did indeed start in 2019 in the ground between Lionel Street and the B4100 dual carriageway alongside the Snow Hill station platform viaduct with ground cleared and structural steel erected, but paused with the 2020 Covid lockdown.

No work has been carried out, the 'waste' ground you mention has been used as a staging area both by Balfour Beatty when they built the tram extension and more recently since lockdown by McPhillips who have been doing public realm works in the city centre along Colmore Row.

The entrance has never got off the ground because a lot of structural work is needed to the Viaduct, the newish NR entrance was way over budget and delayed. Due to the mooted Midlands Rail Hub works i.e. reinstating Platform 4, the wider Snow Hill Masterplan i.e. knocking down the existing office block and car park above the station and building new office complex\station, and the existing Bull St and Jewellery Quarter interchanges it never quite gets to the top of the pile and stays there. See budget overruns on the current Metro extensions.

Picture of proposal for new Snow Hill station and oversite development.

 

[Russel]

I used to live in Birmingham so know the area fairly well.

I'm not convinced there is a massive need for a more direct interchange between Snow Hill and the Metro beyond what Bull Street currently provides, it's only a short walk, 5 minutes at most, though admittedly, Bull Street isn't the nicest of areas to wait.

The previous Metro stop at Snow Hill was obviously well used as it was the end of the route and the most central stop, Bull Street, Corp Street etc have now replaced this, I'd be interested to know if there are any stats out there that show how many people arrive at Snow Hill and continue onto the Metro.

In regards to the previous arrangement at Snow Hill, the connection between the Metro and Snow Hill was regularly used as a way of avoiding the ticket barriers at Snow Hill, so it's usage will be very skewed, speaking from personal experience from growing up as a teenager in the area, I'll admit to being one of the many people who may or may not have done this.

 

[Sprinter107]

I used to live in Birmingham so know the area fairly well.

I'm not convinced there is a massive need for a more direct interchange between Snow Hill and the Metro beyond what Bull Street currently provides, it's only a short walk, 5 minutes at most, though admittedly, Bull Street isn't the nicest of areas to wait.

The previous Metro stop at Snow Hill was obviously well used as it was the end of the route and the most central stop, Bull Street, Corp Street etc have now replaced this, I'd be interested to know if there are any stats out there that show how many people arrive at Snow Hill and continue onto the Metro.

In regards to the previous arrangement at Snow Hill, the connection between the Metro and Snow Hill was regularly used as a way of avoiding the ticket barriers at Snow Hill, so it's usage will be very skewed, speaking from personal experience from growing up as a teenager in the area, I'll admit to being one of the many people who may or may not have done this.

I have to agree with what you say. I dont think there's much of a need for an interchange at Snow Hill. I think the cost and inconvenience of construction would outweigh the amount using it. The Bull Street stop is literally 2 minutes walk from the main entrance of Snow Hill station. It could do with better signposting. I dont think interchange between train and tram is as much as it could be at The Hawthorns and Jewellery Quarter. I'm up and down that route multiple times everyday, and notice most people make for the exit rather than the tram. Id have thought it would be a useful link for passengers from the Stourbridge direction with heavy luggage needing New Street to change at Jewellery Quarter as the tram goes straight to the entrance, but very few seem to.

 

[Mojo]

I remember reading somewhere a while ago that St Chad's was the least used stop on the system. Any bus route passing St Chad's can be accessed from near either Bull Street or St Paul's.

It can’t help that when you search for St Chad’s Tramstop on Google it says that it is “Permanently closed.”

 

[duncanp]

It can’t help that when you search for St Chad’s Tramstop on Google it says that it is “Permanently closed.”

Wouldn't surprise me if the West Midlands Metro reported to Google that it was closed so as to discourage people from using it.

Then they can cite the lack of usage as a reason for closing it officially.

 

[Russel]

Wouldn't surprise me if the West Midlands Metro reported to Google that it was closed so as to discourage people from using it.

Then they can cite the lack of usage as a reason for closing it officially.

How great would the benefit from closing it be?

It's unstaffed and even if closed would still require maintenance so cost saving would be minimal.

 

[BanburyBlue]

How great would the benefit from closing it be?

It's unstaffed and even if closed would still require maintenance so cost saving would be minimal.

I’m in one of the shiny new offices next door to Snow Hill, and in the mornings there are quite a few people coming the other way from St. Chads. I’m assuming a lot of people are going to aforementioned new posh office, so wonder if St. Chads patronage has increased?

 

[Russel]

I remember watching the construction of the Snow Hill office buildings around 2009/10, I recall construction of Three Snow Hill seemed to grind to a half for a good year.... You're right about St Chads, as people return to the office, the patronage should increase.

I’m in one of the shiny new offices next door to Snow Hill, and in the mornings there are quite a few people coming the other way from St. Chads. I’m assuming a lot of people are going to aforementioned new posh office, so wonder if St. Chads patronage has increased?

For anyone not familiar with the area, Snow Hill to Bull Street is actually less distance then you would think as you walk under the building facing the entrance to Snow Hill, map below to illustrate what I mean.

 

[duncanp]

I remember watching the construction of the Snow Hill office buildings around 2009/10, I recall construction of Three Snow Hill seemed to grind to a half for a good year.... You're right about St Chads, as people return to the office, the patronage should increase.



For anyone not familiar with the area, Snow Hill to Bull Street is actually less distance then you would think as you walk under the building facing the entrance to Snow Hill, map below to illustrate what I mean.

View attachment 119837

The walk to and from the platforms at Snow Hill is longer than the red line in your illustration.

When you go through the front entrance of Snow Hill station, you have to walk along a fairly long passageway just to get to the upper level concourse and ticket barriers. You can see this in the photo.

Then you have to go down the escalators or lift to the platforms.

If you are in the front of a train arriving from Moor Street, or at the back end of a train arriving from Jewellery Quarter, you will have an even longer walk.

Whilst the walk from Snow Hill to the tram isn't too bad, it must be frustrating to see the tram stop the other side of an impenetrable barrier, particularly if you have mobility problems or heavy luggage.

In any other country a proper interchange would have been constructed with the extension of the tramway.

 

[Sprinter107]

Anyone wanting to transfer from a train at Snow Hill onto a tram heading for Five Ways, since Broad Street is now virtually traffic free, its actually cheaper and quicker by bus. There are more than 30 buses per hour daytime from across the road from Snow Hill, so there's usually one or more waiting. By the time that the tram has meandered through the City Centre, the bus is already at Five Ways and beyond. Ive timed both. The tram is pitifully slow on that section.

 

[duncanp]

Anyone wanting to transfer from a train at Snow Hill onto a tram heading for Five Ways, since Broad Street is now virtually traffic free, its actually cheaper and quicker by bus. There are more than 30 buses per hour daytime from across the road from Snow Hill, so there's usually one or more waiting. By the time that the tram has meandered through the City Centre, the bus is already at Five Ways and beyond. Ive timed both. The tram is pitifully slow on that section.

The single tram fare for Zone 1 (Jewellery Quarter to Edgbaston Village) is £2.00, which is cheaper than the bus fare of £2.40.

Whether the bus or tram is better for you depends on where you want to go.

The tram would be better for Corporation Street, New Street Station and Victoria Square.

The tram is also better for those who are unfamiliar with the city, or those who have mobility issues or heavy luggage.

But the point remains that there should be a decent interchange between tram and train at Snow Hill station, for those who want to use it.