Energy price rises and price cap discussion.

[yorkie]

Does anyone have any further comments relating specifically to the energy cap?

For discussion of smart meters, please use the following thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/smart-meters-spamming-from-electric-supplier.235916/

For anything else, please create a new thread (if there isn't one already) or use an existing one, if there is.

Many thanks

 

[Cloud Strife]

Does anyone have any further comments relating specifically to the energy cap?

I've just seen that they're now talking about 5,300 GBP. This is absolutely bonkers, especially given that the UK wasn't very reliant on Russian energy.

Who is they? If this is a reference to an external source, can you edit your post to include a quote from, and link to, the source please? Many thanks in advance.

Sure, here you are:

Energy bills forecast to top £5,300 a year in April's price cap

Dr Craig Lowrey, principal consultant at Cornwall Insight, says the price cap is not protecting - nor will it protect - consumers from the high prices.

news.sky.com

Energy bills are expected to top £5,300 annually in April next year, a massive increase from previous predictions.

The dire news comes from energy consultancy Cornwall Insight in its final forecast before Ofgem confirms October's price cap this Friday.

 

[yorkie]

Who is they? If this is a reference to an external source, can you edit your post to include a quote from, and link to, the source please? Many thanks in advance.

 

[Howardh]

£5000 for a winter fuel bill? That would get an OAP couple in a Spanish hotel with breakfast and evening meal, heating included. 4 months @ £40/day (£20 each) but they would both need a visa and health insurance. But very doable if you have family that an check on your UK house + post/bills etc.

I would have insisted my folks did that, but take their caravan!

 

[AM9]

£5000 for a winter fuel bill? That would get an OAP couple in a Spanish hotel with breakfast and evening meal, heating included. 4 months @ £40/day (£20 each) but they would both need a visa and health insurance. But very doable if you have family that an check on your UK house + post/bills etc.

I would have insisted my folks did that, but take their caravan!

The £5300 suggested was for a whole year.

 

[najaB]

The £5300 suggested was for a whole year.

Though, the vast majority of that would be to cover the winter months.

 

[AM9]

Though, the vast majority of that would be to cover the winter months.

Depending on how 'winter' is defined, I think that about 2/3 could be attributed to that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2022 ==

Depending on how 'winter' is defined, I think that up to about 2/3 could be attributed to that.

 

[Lost property]

Thankfully, a Cabinet minister has clearly decided there is no need to be concerned about energy use / rising costs. the two being not entirely unrelated as we plebs know, or power cuts....by virtue of not, it seems, speaking to the people who do know about such matters

Energy crisis: UK expands gas emergency exercise ahead of winter

The annual drill will run for four days this year but the government downplays energy supply fears.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[DelayRepay]

Thankfully, a Cabinet minister has clearly decided there is no need to be concerned about energy use / rising costs. the two being not entirely unrelated as we plebs know, or power cuts....by virtue of not, it seems, speaking to the people who do know about such matters

Energy crisis: UK expands gas emergency exercise ahead of winter

The annual drill will run for four days this year but the government downplays energy supply fears.

www.bbc.co.uk

From the linked news report: 'Downing Street has insisted households and businesses will not face blackouts this winter, telling them not to feel they should cut down on energy use.' This rather reminds me of 'There won't be a lockdown' statements, made shortly before each of the lockdowns!

It hardly fills me with confidence, and in fact everyone should cut down on energy use if possible - not necessarily to prevent blackouts but to save money and reduce carbon emissions. Note I say 'if possible' - I do not believe people should be required to cut down to the extent of making themselves uncomfortable or ill.

Having contingency plans is a good thing, both at a national level and individually. I keep a few torches strategically placed around my house and I'm going to go round checking the batteries. I'll also take more care during the winter to keep devices and power banks charged. I'll make sure I have batteries for my radio, even though it normally runs from the mains. I don't think any of these are extreme measures, just sensible planning. We normally get at least one power outage each winter here anyway, so these precautions are always helpful.

It brings back memories of my childhood when long power cuts were common in the winter. I remember sitting in our living room with the gas fire on and candles lit, listening to the battery powered radio. Our neighbours would sometimes join us because their house was all electric. We had a gas cooker so at least we could still heat food and make hot drinks. As a little kid it was all quite exciting!

 

[yorksrob]

Sounds as though my emergency candle may be finding use again !

 

[brad465]

From the linked news report: 'Downing Street has insisted households and businesses will not face blackouts this winter, telling them not to feel they should cut down on energy use.' This rather reminds me of 'There won't be a lockdown' statements, made shortly before each of the lockdowns!

It hardly fills me with confidence, and in fact everyone should cut down on energy use if possible - not necessarily to prevent blackouts but to save money and reduce carbon emissions. Note I say 'if possible' - I do not believe people should be required to cut down to the extent of making themselves uncomfortable or ill.

Having contingency plans is a good thing, both at a national level and individually. I keep a few torches strategically placed around my house and I'm going to go round checking the batteries. I'll also take more care during the winter to keep devices and power banks charged. I'll make sure I have batteries for my radio, even though it normally runs from the mains. I don't think any of these are extreme measures, just sensible planning. We normally get at least one power outage each winter here anyway, so these precautions are always helpful.

It brings back memories of my childhood when long power cuts were common in the winter. I remember sitting in our living room with the gas fire on and candles lit, listening to the battery powered radio. Our neighbours would sometimes join us because their house was all electric. We had a gas cooker so at least we could still heat food and make hot drinks. As a little kid it was all quite exciting!

Yes I would like to see a public information campaign outlining ways to save energy, and a drive to make certain businesses more energy efficient, such as support for replacing old less efficient appliances. The problem is the Government are too busy choosing a new leader and having Parliament off, and I do wonder if consumption is too ingrained for them to consider calls for reducing demand.

 

[Lost property]

It's funny you should mention that, because, apparently, Leadsom of all people, actually suggested this. However, this suggestion was duly ignored with the Gov't, as always, abrogating their responsibility and placing the responsibility firmly on...yes, the consumer !

 

[Howardh]

The £5300 suggested was for a whole year.

Sure, thinking it could end up more and the bulk will be spent in winter.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2022 ==

Sounds as though my emergency candle may be finding use again !

My parents left me a stock of candles from the 70s, they are in my pantry! How much am I bid??!

 

[ainsworth74]

Sounds as though my emergency candle may be finding use again !

I fear it may need more than one candle...

 

[yorksrob]

I fear it may need more than one candle...

It's a very big candle -but I may get some more just in case !

 

[duncanp]

Sure, thinking it could end up more and the bulk will be spent in winter.

A lot depends on whether the price starts to fall and when

The latest spin of the "energy price cap roulette wheel" has given (according to the papers)

• £3,600 from October 2022
• £4,650 from January 2023
• £5,350 from April 2023
• £5,000 from July 2023

The forecast beyond next summer is a little vague, but most people seem to think that it will start to fall next summer. The question is, to what level will it have fallen to by October 2023 and January 2024, which depends to a certain extent on the outcome of the war in Ukraine.

The rise is January next year will hit people hard, and it remains to be seen what extra support the government will be prepared to give to households and businesses.

But if the peak is in April, this is at the end of the winter, when heating starts to be turned down or off, so the impact won't be quite as much as it would otherwise be.

Nevertheless, the impact will be considerable. I read my meter this morning, and I have used £54.26 of energy over the past month. If the price cap does rise to £5,350 in April, I would be paying nearly £150 to use the same amount of electricity.

 

[Howardh]

According to https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-gas-where-from-how-much-russia-import-britain-supplies-explained-1504257 half our gas comes from the North Sea. It's the same gas as before, extracted the same way, transported the same way, so if the price goes up three/fourfold because of the lack of gas from Russia, those UK companies are raking it in as we've seen looking at their profits.

Therefore the plan to take those profits, which must be way above anything planned, seems logical. It's taking money away from companies that weren't expecting it so it's no loss. That would protect the customers and inflation. So have I misread or missed something?

Russia is Europe’s largest supplier of natural gas, providing around 35 per cent of the gas used across the continent.
The UK’s reliance on Russian gas is far less significant, at just 3 per cent.
About half of the UK’s gas comes from the North Sea, and a third is sourced from Norway.

 

[GS250]

According to https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-gas-where-from-how-much-russia-import-britain-supplies-explained-1504257 half our gas comes from the North Sea. It's the same gas as before, extracted the same way, transported the same way, so if the price goes up three/fourfold because of the lack of gas from Russia, those UK companies are raking it in as we've seen looking at their profits.

Therefore the plan to take those profits, which must be way above anything planned, seems logical. It's taking money away from companies that weren't expecting it so it's no loss. That would protect the customers and inflation. So have I misread or missed something?

Amongst all of the chaos going on in the World, there is some blatant profiteering going on too.

 

[JamesT]

According to https://inews.co.uk/news/uk-gas-where-from-how-much-russia-import-britain-supplies-explained-1504257 half our gas comes from the North Sea. It's the same gas as before, extracted the same way, transported the same way, so if the price goes up three/fourfold because of the lack of gas from Russia, those UK companies are raking it in as we've seen looking at their profits.

Therefore the plan to take those profits, which must be way above anything planned, seems logical. It's taking money away from companies that weren't expecting it so it's no loss. That would protect the customers and inflation. So have I misread or missed something?

Which is essentially what we're doing already. Oil and gas from the North Sea pays 30% Corporation Tax (standard rate is 19%), plus a 10% supplementary tax, plus the 25% Windfall Tax that was announced in the last budget.
You might say these companies weren't expecting it, but oil and gas is a fairly volatile business. It's not even two years since many companies were trying to stem massive losses - https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandgas/north-sea/284554/jake-molloy-covid-19-thousands-job-losses/
If we're trying to encourage investment in the North Sea to secure our energy supplies, saying we'll confiscate any big profits isn't going to help.

 

[najaB]

If we're trying to encourage investment in the North Sea to secure our energy supplies, saying we'll confiscate any big profits isn't going to help.

Which is why I would put high taxes on dividends - which would encourage investment rather than taking the profits out of the business.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Yes I would like to see a public information campaign outlining ways to save energy, and a drive to make certain businesses more energy efficient, such as support for replacing old less efficient appliances. The problem is the Government are too busy choosing a new leader and having Parliament off, and I do wonder if consumption is too ingrained for them to consider calls for reducing demand.

There aren't many ways to save energy. Beyond those already promoted (energy efficiency in its various methods).
The myth of smart meters that 'they can save you money' is based on the same premise - that people waste energy like crazy just because they can.

Some free energy saving tips to start you off:

• Eat a raw egg instead of poaching it - saving 0.02kWh per go, a whopping 0.7p at my rates. Have an egg every morning? you'll save 4.9p per week.
• Turn off your bedside radio and use your phone as an alarm - saving 0.018kWh per day, 0.5p per day or £1.92 per year.
• Use the washing machine less - 2.5 times per eight days instead of 2.5 times per seven - saving £5.15 per year.
• Do all your washing overnight at Economy Seven rates, on the same eight vice seven rota and save £23.50 per year.

As has been said, the majority of use is for water and space heating.

 

[najaB]

As has been said, the majority of use is for water and space heating.

Which is why the mantra "Insulate, insulate, insulate!" keeps getting mentioned again and again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The myth of smart meters that 'they can save you money' is based on the same premise - that people waste energy like crazy just because they can.

I think you're slightly missing the point. People don't "waste energy...because they can", they do it because they don't realise they are doing it, e.g. they don't realise that the standby light on an older telly costs them say £30/year.

As has been said, the majority of use is for water and space heating.

Which is why a major programme of insulating the housing stock (or replacing it if it *really* can't be insulated, but that's hardly any of it) is necessary. Insulate Britain's methods were imbecilic, but they were 100% right in the point they were making (or failing to make).

Just go and walk down a London street and see all the single glazed sash windows. The owner/tenant might as well open it and throw £50 notes out. The mucky white uPVC you get in the terraces elsewhere I'll agree looks terrible, but it doesn't waste even nearly as much heat.

Or the Barbican or the Brunswick - it's great to see Brutalist architecture in its classic form, but the steel/aluminium-framed single glazed windows are an energy pit, so the listed building rules need to be relaxed to allow for at least double secondary glazing so what's there is just cosmetic.

 

[duncanp]

I fear it may need more than one candle...

Dare I say it - go to a hardware shop and ask for fork 'andles/ four candles.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that - I will go out and get a life now.

 

[DelayRepay]

There aren't many ways to save energy. Beyond those already promoted (energy efficiency in its various methods).
The myth of smart meters that 'they can save you money' is based on the same premise - that people waste energy like crazy just because they can.

Some free energy saving tips to start you off:

• Eat a raw egg instead of poaching it - saving 0.02kWh per go, a whopping 0.7p at my rates. Have an egg every morning? you'll save 4.9p per week.
• Turn off your bedside radio and use your phone as an alarm - saving 0.018kWh per day, 0.5p per day or £1.92 per year.
• Use the washing machine less - 2.5 times per eight days instead of 2.5 times per seven - saving £5.15 per year.
• Do all your washing overnight at Economy Seven rates, on the same eight vice seven rota and save £23.50 per year.

As has been said, the majority of use is for water and space heating.

The problem, as discussed up-thread, is that a lot of consumers do not understand how to save energy. There are a lot of myths like it being better to leave the heating on all day, even if you're out, rather than use a timer. Or it being more efficient to use a 'quick wash', when in fact the programme may use more energy than a setting that takes longer. Whilst these will only result in tiny savings to individual households, when multiplied by the 20 million + households in the UK they will make a difference to demand nationally.

There are plenty of energy saving tips that appear in the press on a regular basis, so I don't think the government actually needs to take a leading role in educating people, but they shouldn't be making a statement that effectively says 'fill your boots'!

 

[gg1]

Some free energy saving tips to start you off:

• Eat a raw egg instead of poaching it - saving 0.02kWh per go, a whopping 0.7p at my rates. Have an egg every morning? you'll save 4.9p per week.
• Turn off your bedside radio and use your phone as an alarm - saving 0.018kWh per day, 0.5p per day or £1.92 per year.
• Use the washing machine less - 2.5 times per eight days instead of 2.5 times per seven - saving £5.15 per year.
• Do all your washing overnight at Economy Seven rates, on the same eight vice seven rota and save £23.50 per year.

Don't bother pre-heating an oven, instead put whatever you plan to cook into the oven when cold and add 5 minutes to the cooking time.

IME pre-heating takes 8-10 minutes depending on the required temperature.

 

[duncanp]

Meanwhile here is the latest spin of the energy price cap roulette wheel, according to The Telegraph live feed.

This is getting silly now, and is akin the COVID bedwetting and scaremongering that we have all had to endure over the past two years.

Perhaps SAGE and fake SAGE have got new jobs at these consultancies, now that no-one gives a flying **** about what they think about COVID.

The energy price cap will hit £6,500 a year in April after a fresh surge in gas prices added to the misery for British households, according to new forecasts.

The price cap will be set at £6,552 next April – almost £500 higher than previously feared – consultancy Auxilione said.

It comes after wholesale natural gas prices spiked yesterday as Russia said it would shut down the Nord Stream pipeline for maintenance work for three days next week.

It marks the latest cut to supplies through the key gas link to Germany and fuelled fears that Putin will cut off supplies to the continent completely.

Auxilion said it now expects the price cap to rise to £3,576 from the start of October, hitting £5,066 in January before rising even further to £6,552 from April.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Meanwhile here is the latest spin of the energy price cap roulette wheel, according to The Telegraph live feed.

This is getting silly now, and is akin the COVID bedwetting and scaremongering that we have all had to endure over the past two years.

Perhaps SAGE and fake SAGE have got new jobs at these consultancies, now that no-one gives a flying **** about what they think about COVID.

The energy price cap will hit £6,500 a year in April after a fresh surge in gas prices added to the misery for British households, according to new forecasts.
The price cap will be set at £6,552 next April

That is appalling, not the amount but that they make the statement 'the cap will be set at....' No, it is a forecast. Without knowing who the consultants are it is impossible to know what reliance to place upon it. I've just rolled my (fluffy) dice and Baxenden Bank Consulting says prices MAY reach £10,000 per year from next April! Or they may not. My name and face in the paper please, perhaps a breakfast TV slot!

I think it is attention seeking by the newspaper (click baiting) and the consultants (keen to attract clients).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't bother pre-heating an oven, instead put whatever you plan to cook into the oven when cold and add 5 minutes to the cooking time.

IME pre-heating takes 8-10 minutes depending on the required temperature.

This probably makes more sense in a fan oven than a conventional oven, in the latter it can result in soggy food and a lot of vapour buildup.

 

[duncanp]

That is appalling, not the amount but that they make the statement 'the cap will be set at....' No, it is a forecast. Without knowing who the consultants are it is impossible to know what reliance to place upon it. I've just rolled my (fluffy) dice and Baxenden Bank Consulting says prices MAY reach £10,000 per year from next April! Or they may not. My name and face in the paper please, perhaps a breakfast TV slot!

I think it is attention seeking by the newspaper (click baiting) and the consultants (keen to attract clients).

As I said, it is rather like the screaming headlines such as

COVID CASES WILL HIT 500,000 PER DAY, AND THE NHS WILL COLLAPSE UNLESS THERE ARE COMPULSORY HAZMAT SUITS ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT, WARNS FAKE SAGE SCIENTIST

that the newspapers were trying to scare with at the beginning of 2021