"Smart" meters spamming from electric supplier

[CaptainHaddock]

No way will I ever have a smart meter even though, like the OP, my supplier (Shell Energy) is constantly badgering me to have one. Any smart device can be used to harvest your personal data and spy on you; this topical article explains why and how.

‘Ask all the time: why do I need this?’ How to stop your vacuum from spying on you

Even if you’re not gadget-obsessed, the odds are you’ve got at least one smart device at home. So how do you limit the internet of things from listening in?

www.theguardian.com

But Vaile says of big tech companies: “They’re about collecting data, and the products and services are really just bait to lure and hopefully lock in unsuspecting data subjects. “Their opportunities for manipulating you and exploiting you, once they’ve spied on you, are more or less open-ended and getting broader all the time.”

At its gentlest, data gathered by smart devices can be used by manufacturers to figure out how to more effectively sell you products. At worst, it can mean staff listening to conversations recorded by your smart speakers or sharing your doorbell camera videos with the police. And as with anything internet-connected, there is also a risk of hackers gaining access to your private information.

From a data privacy perspective, the smartest home is a dumb home.

“That’s the real answer: don’t do it,” Vaile says. Failing that, he recommends paring back your system as much as possible. “Just ask all the time: why do I need this?” he says. “Because every one of the fancy new tricks will come with both a privacy and a data security cost.” The simpler the system, “the better off you’ll be”.

 

[Dai Corner]

No way will I ever have a smart meter even though, like the OP, my supplier (Shell Energy) is constantly badgering me to have one. Any smart device can be used to harvest your personal data and spy on you; this topical article explains why and how.

‘Ask all the time: why do I need this?’ How to stop your vacuum from spying on you

Even if you’re not gadget-obsessed, the odds are you’ve got at least one smart device at home. So how do you limit the internet of things from listening in?

www.theguardian.com

You need to stop posting here immediately. What you write is of far more interest to big tech than when you put the immersion heater on or cook your dinner.

 

[AM9]

How do you know when energy supplies are more plentiful, @AM9? I'd prefer to use hungry appliances at times when the energy is less likely to be from burning fossil fuels. Or were you talking about energy you generate through solar panels, which I don't have?

So far in recent times, there have always been adequate energy resources to match demand in the UK, albeit by managing interconnectors and juggling when to use the most environmentally damaging sources. I used Gridwatch occasionally to understand the type of weather, time of day and time of year when the grid supply was at it's least stressed and cleanest sourced. For example, today is showing a similar profile to yesterday and the graph for yesterday shows that solar and wind contributed over nearly 40% of total demand from about 10:00 to 18:00, the summer daily peak period.
At a more personal level, we have a medium sized solar array that for much of that period (actually 10:30 - 15:30) could be expected to give between 1 and 2.5kW of power. If I don't use it it is exported to the grid, but using it at least means that our domestic electricity demand has a minimal effect on the environment. Virtually all of the hot water here is generated from solar power, so even if the washing machine/dishwasher doesn't use domestic hot water, showers and baths here have very little impact on the environment and consequentially UK demand.
Interestingly, the smart meter display's single biggest revelation has been how much higher our background demand rises in warm weather. This is down to the mechanical refigeration in two freezers, one fridge and a wine cooler. That is something that I will attend to asap.
The whole of this paragraph above takes a lot longer to write about than to fully understand. Once I understood:

the patterns of grid resource usage,​

the availability of our solar power and​

the demand that we make of it,​

it became intuitive to optimise our domestic energy usage to the effect of a projected saving or 30-40% of electricity use this year. The solar installation was originally sold with an expected payback period of 12-15 years, however the rampant rise in energy cost has already shortened that to under 10 years. The plan is to supplement the system with a battery to use as much of the power that would be otherwise exported by time shifting it for non-daylight consumption.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

You need to stop posting here immediately. What you write is of far more interest to big tech than when you put the immersion heater on or cook your dinner.

Very droll. The big difference is that I choose what information to reveal on here.

 

[D821]

Very droll. The big difference is that I choose what information to reveal on here.

Scrolling through you post history on here would give a away a lot more about you to an interested party than how much electricity your meter has gone through it at a 30 second interval.
The social engineering aspect of a targeted hacking attempt plays a bigger part than people may think.

 

[DelayRepay]

Interestingly, the smart meter display's single biggest revelation has been how much higher our background demand rises in warm weather. This is down to the mechanical refigeration in two freezers, one fridge and a wine cooler. That is something that I will attend to asap.

I found the same - my investigation was prompted by wondering why the Smart Meter was showing more electricity use than I would have expected while I was away from home during the recent heatwave. The main difference is that I do not have a wine cooler

The whole of this paragraph above takes a lot longer to write about than to fully understand. Once I understood:

the patterns of grid resource usage,​

the availability of our solar power and​

the demand that we make of it,​

it became intuitive to optimise our domestic energy usage to the effect of a projected saving or 30-40% of electricity use this year. The solar installation was originally sold with an expected payback period of 12-15 years, however the rampant rise in energy cost has already shortened that to under 10 years. The plan is to supplement the system with a battery to use as much of the power that would be otherwise exported by time shifting it for non-daylight consumption.

I don't have solar panels, although my roof would be suitable. I've been thinking about it, but I'd probably need to borrow the money which adds another dimension to the payback time, and I don't plan to stay here for ten years. On the other hand, I need to replace my car in the next year or so and the replacement may well be electric, which adds another yet another factor to the calculations.

Thank you for your post above - it was very interesting to read.

 

[AM9]

I found the same - my investigation was prompted by wondering why the Smart Meter was showing more electricity use than I would have expected while I was away from home during the recent heatwave. The main difference is that I do not have a wine cooler

Our wine cooler was put in as part of a kitchen refit in 2008. Unfortunately we don't drink as much wine these days but it is a good place to keep chocolate in!

I don't have solar panels, although my roof would be suitable. I've been thinking about it, but I'd probably need to borrow the money which adds another dimension to the payback time, and I don't plan to stay here for ten years. On the other hand, I need to replace my car in the next year or so and the replacement may well be electric, which adds another yet another factor to the calculations.

Thank you for your post above - it was very interesting to read.

Getting an electric car and fitting a smart charger should allow you to charge the car and use some of it's battery charge to reduce direct electricity demand, - obviously much better if as much of the original charge is from solar. Our intention is to offset the evening and night time power draw. Sizing it is complex - to small will only offset a small amount wheras to large may mean it is rarely full yet it costs more to buy. Having a car as a store for EV energy gives some flexibility at little extra capital cost.

 

[The Planner]

People still come round to read meters? I don't have a smart meter, but I don't think my meters have been read in a decade or more, just put the readings in monthly on my suppliers website.

 

[Dai Corner]

People still come round to read meters? I don't have a smart meter, but I don't think my meters have been read in a decade or more, just put the readings in monthly on my suppliers website.

I think they're supposed to read them at least every two years.

 

[XAM2175]

I did however believe they contained a SIM card which would mean sending via the Internet, even if it is an encrypted VPN.

Yes, they use 3G or 4G data connections. They're network-agnostic though; some suppliers will go as far as issuing installers with SIMs for most or even all major networks and have them decide on the one to use based on signal strength at the meterpoint.

Most newer ones also have some degree of mesh networking functionality, with the intent being that meters that do receive decent signal can help fill in dark spots around them.

 

[birchesgreen]

People still come round to read meters? I don't have a smart meter, but I don't think my meters have been read in a decade or more, just put the readings in monthly on my suppliers website.

My gas meter, which is outside and therefore anyone can access it with one of those yellow keys, had been read within the last few months. My electric? No idea, probably at least 5 years ago. I submit meter readings to my supplier every month via their app.

 

[Ediswan]

I did however believe they contained a SIM card which would mean sending via the Internet, even if it is an encrypted VPN.

It depends which Access Point Name (APN) they connect to. If they use a public ISP's APN, then they are 'on the internet'. If they use one of the private APNs, they are not.

I used to manage a very small scale implementation of 3G routers which used a private APN.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think they're supposed to read them at least every two years.

Indeed, and they'll do it more often if you don't supply them readings.

 

[DelayRepay]

My electric meter (outside behind a locked gate) has been read by a meter reader once since I moved in four years ago.

The gas meter has never been read. It's indoors and he said he wasn't allowed to come in because it was during the Covid times, and he apparently wasn't allowed to go in people's houses.

 

[tomuk]

Yes, they use 3G or 4G data connections. They're network-agnostic though; some suppliers will go as far as issuing installers with SIMs for most or even all major networks and have them decide on the one to use based on signal strength at the meterpoint.

Most newer ones also have some degree of mesh networking functionality, with the intent being that meters that do receive decent signal can help fill in dark spots around them.

You maybe referring to older meters but the current SMETS-2 generally use two providers
In the North and Scotland they piggyback off the Airwave emergency services network in the Centre and South of the country they use 2G/3G O2

 

[HSTEd]

I'm constantly being pestered by contractors for my energy supplier trying to pressure me into getting a smart meter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm constantly being pestered by contractors for my energy supplier trying to pressure me into getting a smart meter.

Why not get one, then?

 

[swt_passenger]

I think they're supposed to read them at least every two years.

AIUI they are supposed to visit the meter location at some frequency even after smart meters are fitted, just to do a visual check of what is their equipment. Both my meters are in boxes outside so I’d never normally know if they actually did that or not.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

No way will I ever have a smart meter even though, like the OP, my supplier (Shell Energy) is constantly badgering me to have one. Any smart device can be used to harvest your personal data and spy on you; this topical article explains why and how.

‘Ask all the time: why do I need this?’ How to stop your vacuum from spying on you

Even if you’re not gadget-obsessed, the odds are you’ve got at least one smart device at home. So how do you limit the internet of things from listening in?

www.theguardian.com

I work for an energy company and this is the biggest load of twaddle I've seen in my 14 years within the energy industry.

Firstly, SMETS1 Enrolled and SMETS2 are all managed by the DCC (Data Communications Company) and I can assure it's they are like Fort Knox when it comes to security. If the DCC goes down then incidents are raised almost immediately.

Secondly, anything can harvest data. Are you telling me you don't own a mobile phone or use emails? I've had smart meters in my house since 2014 as I was part of the initial SMETS1 trial through my employer and do I feel compromised about my data? Absolutely not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Aug 2022 ==

AIUI they are supposed to visit the meter location at some frequency even after smart meters are fitted, just to do a visual check of what is their equipment. Both my meters are in boxes outside so I’d never normally know if they actually did that or not.

Yep OFGEM guidelines are every 2 years, some are more often ie every 6 months but some will stick religiously to every 2 years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

AIUI they are supposed to visit the meter location at some frequency even after smart meters are fitted, just to do a visual check of what is their equipment. Both my meters are in boxes outside so I’d never normally know if they actually did that or not.

I've had it but I think only once since they were fitted (mine are inside), though I guess COVID probably paused it.

 

[bavvo]

...

i am not convinced with the present fashion of having "smart" meters installed (except maybe in new builds) as they do not reduce bills, do not work very well with Economy 7 (which I have), and also as it is a flat I reside in, any mucking around with the wiring (installers have been known to mess up the wiring especially for those who like me have an E7 tariff) could either compromise the fire safety of the flat, or invalidate the insurance (I rent from someone who mainly resides in Turkey, but returns to the UK every summer for 2-3 months, with my landlord's parents vacating to Turkey for 6 months afterwards. Plus anything that is to do with fire safety or insurance has to go through my landlord). The meter is in a box room/broom cupboard that has a fire door, as do all doors in the flat.

I had a smart meter installed 3 years ago. Works perfectly with economy 7. It also saved me money as I had a few appliances running constantly which had a high standby draw I was not aware of, which I now have isolated so they can be turned off properly when not in use, so no complaints here. I really don't see what the fuss is about.

 

[HSTEd]

Why not get one, then?

Because all the benefits accrue to the operator - I gain essentially nothing.
Indeed depending on how cynical you are about the future, I could very well lose from doing so.

 

[AM9]

Because all the benefits accrue to the operator - I gain essentially nothing.
Indeed depending on how cynical you are about the future, I could very well lose from doing so.

So what would you actually lose in this one dimensional view of yours?
I have actually benefitted from the free-issue smart meter I have had for over 7 months and so have others.

 

[Cdd89]

I would really like a smart meter, but the room in which my (dumb) meter lives is surrounded by heavy concrete; and a connection can neither be established to the mobile data network nor to a base station in my flat. I’m not even able to read it myself and have to rely on the landlord to read it!

My supplier has clearly put me on a blacklist as all mention of smart meters has evaporated. Supposedly newer meters might work, but I don’t see how they ever can if the meter is in a concrete bunker with no connectivity out of it…

 

[RuddA]

I never realised that Smart Water meters existed until Anglia Water emailed 3 weeks ago and fitted it some point this week.

 

[AM9]

I would really like a smart meter, but the room in which my (dumb) meter lives is surrounded by heavy concrete; and a connection can neither be established to the mobile data network nor to a base station in my flat. I’m not even able to read it myself and have to rely on the landlord to read it!

My supplier has clearly put me on a blacklist as all mention of smart meters has evaporated. Supposedly newer meters might work, but I don’t see how they ever can if the meter is in a concrete bunker with no connectivity out of it…

For many years, there has been schemes for data communication through the mains supply. The technology has been exploited in the consumer world with 'powerline networking' products that use domestic house wiring to carry data between routers and devices such as computers, printers and even security cameras. That is useful when there is poor wi-fi comms in the house and the local wi-fi spectrum s overloaded but there is no practical way of hard wiring an ethernet connection.
There was originally talk of using the street power cabling to connect houses to the internet using modems located in substations, (which may have internet connections for their own monitoring), but with the advent of cheap ASDL, the idea went away. There is no reason why that capability couldn't be employed to access smart meters in all the 'difficult' places. I could see a situation in the not too distant future when smart meters become a condition of electricity supply so that a 'private' connection such as that would be used to provide a tamper resistant data connection wherever there is a supply provided.

 

[HSTEd]

So what would you actually lose in this one dimensional view of yours?
I have actually benefitted from the free-issue smart meter I have had for over 7 months and so have others.

Well when the Government inevitably reneges on the "promise" that the remote cut off will never be used to punish people for bill arrears or to ensure that brownouts do not impact the "most vulnerable" - which will obviously be selected to include their chosen voter base.
Or the capability to impose 24 hour continuous time of use charging on the peasantry to rescue the Government from the bad publicity of its insane energy policy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2022 ==

For many years, there has been schemes for data communication through the mains supply. The technology has been exploited in the consumer world with 'powerline networking' products that use domestic house wiring to carry data between routers and devices such as computers, printers and even security cameras. That is useful when there is poor wi-fi comms in the house and the local wi-fi spectrum s overloaded but there is no practical way of hard wiring an ethernet connection.
There was originally talk of using the street power cabling to connect houses to the internet using modems located in substations, (which may have internet connections for their own monitoring), but with the advent of cheap ASDL, the idea went away. There is no reason why that capability couldn't be employed to access smart meters in all the 'difficult' places. I could see a situation in the not too distant future when smart meters become a condition of electricity supply so that a 'private' connection such as that would be used to provide a tamper resistant data connection wherever there is a supply provided.

Power Line Signalling is used extensively for this purpose in France - but obviously the Government went with the radio solution because it was the cheapest, even though it can't reach a significant fraction of metering points

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well when the Government inevitably reneges on the "promise" that the remote cut off will never be used to punish people for bill arrears or to ensure that brownouts do not impact the "most vulnerable" - which will obviously be selected to include their chosen voter base.

If you don't have a smart meter they'll send a bloke in a van round instead.

Or the capability to impose 24 hour continuous time of use charging on the peasantry to rescue the Government from the bad publicity of its insane energy policy.

If that does happen, the way it'll work is that the basic rate is whacked up to the maximum charge, and those with smart meters will get a discount at certain times.

Power Line Signalling is used extensively for this purpose in France - but obviously the Government went with the radio solution because it was the cheapest, even though it can't reach a significant fraction of metering points

A sensible plan, as roll out takes time and mobile phone rollout is also progressing. I reckon we'll have close to blanket coverage in 10 years. Maybe not Corrour or Altnabreac, but close enough to cover 99% of properties at least, with a workaround needed for the last few.

 

[Dai Corner]

If you don't have a smart meter they'll send a bloke in a van round [to cut you off] instead.

Or do what they do now; switch you to a prepayment tariff and let you cut yourself off when you don't top up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or do what they do now; switch you to a prepayment tariff and let you cut yourself off when you don't top up.

I suppose without a smart meter you could delay them a bit by refusing access, but eventually they'll show up with a warrant and hefty accompaniment as they do have a right of entry for that purpose, so you'd only gain a few weeks at most. And not even that if your meter box is outside, unless you want to risk Court for threatening behaviour to prevent them access.