Avanti in crisis talks to consider OLR

[Mcr Warrior]

In Regards to the Grant Shapps BBC interview, I think it's very scary that the transport minister doesn't even know what a direct train is? I think he believes it is a Train that stops nowhere between say Manchester Piccadilly and Euston? Thats a non-stop train?

Direct, Please correct me if I have got this simple definition wrong. Is a Train that gets you from A-C without getting off the train at B and then getting on another one to get to C? I think I am wrong

Your summary is correct.

@WizCastro197 1 Grant Shapps 0.

 

[py_megapixel]

Gobsmacked, just gobsmacked. Our Minister for Transport says there are "four trains per hour between Manchester and London" on Breakfast TV today.

There's one. One.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1560534136129212416

This level of incompetance has reached yet a new low and that's considering how low the Tories have left the bar.

Have there ever been four?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Have there ever been four?

Not all day, no. There may have been a peak extra (1755?) at some point that caused one hour in a whole (Fri)day to manage four, but I don't think the Friday peak extra ever did Manchester, it was mostly a Preston semifast but I think at one point went to Crewe via Brum or something like that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have there ever been four?

Possibly briefly between 2003 and 2004 when there was an hourly "Project Rio" service from Manchester Piccadilly to London St. Pancras as well as the (three per hour?) WCML services from Manchester Piccadilly which sometimes ran through to London Euston. (Not all did, some terminated at Milton Keynes Central, hence the need for the additional Midland Mainline service).

 

[bramling]

Have there ever been four?

Perhaps he was getting mixed up with his four identities?

 

[jfollows]

Have there ever been four?

Pre-Covid up morning departures from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston at:
06:27 (9R23)
06:35 (1R15)
06:43 (1R17)
07:00 (1R18)
07:15 (1R22)

 

[pdeaves]

Our Minister for Transport says there are "four trains per hour between Manchester and London" on Breakfast TV today.

I picked 1300-1400 at Euston on a random weekday when I think there are no strike effects (or at least not loaded into the system yet). It looks like there are four 'VT' (West Coast) arrivals and four 'VT' departures in that hour. In total; not to/from Manchester alone! I wonder if that fact may have become misunderstood/corrupted in passing through various advisors before being vocalised by Mr Shapps. Doesn't excuse the silly error, of course.

 

[RailWonderer]

Avanti is a terrible ToC. Their first class offering is worse than ever, buffet selection is uninspired (no more pastries) and the prices were hiked, their branding is rubbish, staff shortages have dragged on for too long, standard premium is liked by a few but seen by many and me as pointless and services have been cut.
I doubt OLR will fix most of this.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My stamens needed a slight bit of tweaking....

Are you half-man/half-flower...

 

[WizCastro197]

Are you half-man/half-flower...

Hmmm. When did I ever say I was a man? I am though I’m just purely expressing that we don’t know what gender people are unless they say!

This is quite funny though!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hmmm. When did I ever say I was a man? I am though I’m just purely expressing that we don’t know what gender people are unless they say!

This is quite funny though!

It was your mention of your stamens that caught my eye,,,,

 

[WizCastro197]

It was your mention of your stamens that caught my eye,,,,

God. I didn’t take biology
I forgot stamens is only male!!

And thanks for the follow

 

[cslusarc]

Pre-Covid up morning departures from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston at:
06:27 (9R23)
06:35 (1R15)
06:43 (1R17)
07:00 (1R18)
07:15 (1R22)

And 9R23 is the indirect one via BHM.

 

[Chiltern006]

ever since virgin took over, i haven’t found any good value fares. for example with Virgin I managed to get a £4.50 single to Brum and £13 in first, got crewe for £16return standard. it’s such a shame these cheap fares don’t exist anymore

 

[philosopher]

ever since virgin took over, i haven’t found any good value fares. for example with Virgin I managed to get a £4.50 single to Brum and £13 in first, got crewe for £16return standard. it’s such a shame these cheap fares don’t exist anymore

There are still fares for £13 from London to Brum, however when I looked, the only trains with these fares were the trains after 22:00, which I imagine for most people is too late.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

ever since virgin took over, i haven’t found any good value fares. for example with Virgin I managed to get a £4.50 single to Brum and £13 in first, got crewe for £16return standard. it’s such a shame these cheap fares don’t exist anymore

With increased operating costs the days of loss making train and plane fares are in the past. Michael O’Leary of Ryanair has said several times the days of the £10 plane ticket is over, and rail is no different.

£13 in First Class would have barely covered the cost of food and drink you’d have been supplied with so really doesn’t make financial sense for the railway.

 

[Vespa]

If LMS comes back, then we have all 4 back, right?

LNER
GWR
LMS
Southern

LNER - Last Nearest Exit Route
GWR- Great Way Round
LMS- Last Man Standing

 

[317 forever]

Would it not be an idea if Avanti folds and it goes to OLR to rebrand as LMS? It would be an accurate description of the route and as we already have GWR and LNER we could gradually drift back to the Big Four.

They could tell Brummies that M stands for Midlands, Mancunians that M stands for Manchester, and Scousers that M stands for Merseyside.

 

[tomuk]

They could tell Brummies that M stands for Midlands, Mancunians that M stands for Manchester, and Scousers that M stands for Merseyside.

No to please them it would need to be Liverpool Merseyside & Scouse Railways.

 

[Whistler40145]

It's not the first time that First Group have made a complete mess up

IMHO they shouldn't have any involvement with Rail

 

[HamworthyGoods]

A

It's not the first time that First Group have made a complete mess up

IMHO they shouldn't have any involvement with Rail

And which owning groups haven’t made slip ups along the way?

Remember Stagecoach and the early disaster days of SWT when they had a similar emergency timetable situation after they allowed way too many drivers to take redundancy?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No to please them it would need to be Liverpool Merseyside & Scouse Railways.

Petiton to rename Merseyrail!

 

[py_megapixel]

It's not the first time that First Group have made a complete mess up

IMHO they shouldn't have any involvement with Rail

I really don't see how having the same s**t-show with a different set of shareholders would have made any difference to anything.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I really don't see how having the same s**t-show with a different set of shareholders would have made any difference to anything.

If they had managed not to hack off their staff so they'd all refuse to work overtime or leave entirely they might have had to reduce the service a bit but not have suffered a near total collapse.

It is clear, given that it's the same people it was under Virgin, that the poisonous culture, or the acceptance of it, comes from above.

 

[tomuk]

I really don't see how having the same s**t-show with a different set of shareholders would have made any difference to anything.

Well none of First's rail operations are doing well, apart from GWR, and their bus forays into the states have been ill judged.

 

[WizCastro197]

It's not the first time that First Group have made a complete mess up

IMHO they shouldn't have any involvement with Rail

Stick to buses.

 

[Whistler40145]

Stick to buses.

Good idea

 

[WizCastro197]

Back On Topic. Does the OP have any more information regarding if Avanti are actually in these so called talks or not?

 

[nlogax]

Back On Topic. Does the OP have any more information regarding if Avanti are actually in these so called talks or not?

I'd like to know this as well. Right now the only relevant Google result for Avanti + OLR leads right back to this thread.

 

[jfollows]

Back On Topic. Does the OP have any more information regarding if Avanti are actually in these so called talks or not?

Post #163 above summarises:

Yes, talks are taking place regarding the next phase of West Coast contract. No, talks are not taking place specificallyto start the process of moving to OLR.

Some people appear to be over-interpreting what's going on, and a number of other people have posted informative posts above to give the background to what's actually happening now.
I have no knowledge on the subject other than what I've read in this thread, and I think it's reasonably clear as long as you can read through the conjecture to see the facts.