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ETCS Roll-Out on ECML South Confirmed

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Signal_Box

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It's typical though..... The London end of the ECML rather than for example, Newcastle to Edinburgh. So much for levelling up or Northern powerhouse rail.

It makes sense to bolt onto a network where it’s operational though (Thamleokk core and Hertford Loop/City lines?) also where trains are pre fitted already or have easy access for fitment. Then work north if the scheme is successful bare in mind this is the U.K. where we by a new tv without plugs then moan it’ll cost £500,000 to buy the plug.
 
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Trestrol

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It's typical though..... The London end of the ECML rather than for example, Newcastle to Edinburgh. So much for levelling up or Northern powerhouse rail.
Bearing in mind that the age of the signalling on the London end is older by twenty years not really. And its totally knackered might have something to do with it as well..
 

43066

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Bearing in mind that the age of the signalling on the London end is older by twenty years not really. And its totally knackered might have something to do with it as well..

And the inconvenient fact that are a just a tad more trains running in and out of London then between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Honestly! Every other post on here at the moment seems to be a provincial moan about London.
 
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zwk500

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The same with GSMR
Fitting a radio aerial (or TPWS receiver) is not quite the same as fitting a brand new Driver Machine Interface which includes a screen that will display the Signalling Authorities and also needs a beacon reader and doppler radar underneath.
 

najaB

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Fitting a radio aerial (or TPWS receiver) is not quite the same as fitting a brand new Driver Machine Interface which includes a screen that will display the Signalling Authorities and also needs a beacon reader and doppler radar underneath.
Agreed, it is not. But it demonstrates that where there is a will (and sufficient money) there is a way.
 

Bald Rick

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Fitting a radio aerial (or TPWS receiver) is not quite the same as fitting a brand new Driver Machine Interface which includes a screen that will display the Signalling Authorities and also needs a beacon reader and doppler radar underneath.

TPWS was rather more than that for cab fitment, although your broader point is valid.
 

zwk500

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They'll have to install the balises at the very least, no?
Balises and Marker boards, not to mention any layout changes, redundant kit removal and signalling disconnections required for any changes to the workstations.
 

D365

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possessions for what then? whole point of ETCS is to drastically reduce the need for lineside kit and thus possessions to install.
See below:
Balises and Marker boards, not to mention any layout changes, redundant kit removal and signalling disconnections required for any changes to the workstations.
Once in place, would I be right in my understand that ETCS track equipment will only need to be modified during track/layout changes.
 

plugwash

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AIUI ETCS level 2 gets rid of the "lights on sticks", but there will still be a need for train detection equipment, and baileses to communicate with the trains.

Level 3 would get rid of much of the lineside kit but I think it's still largely theretical at this point.
 

D365

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AIUI ETCS level 2 gets rid of the "lights on sticks", but there will still be a need for train detection equipment, and baileses to communicate with the trains.

Level 3 would get rid of much of the lineside kit but I think it's still largely theretical at this point.
Yes you're right on both points.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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See below:

Once in place, would I be right in my understand that ETCS track equipment will only need to be modified during track/layout changes.
Balises can be done under line blockages shouldn't need to be taking full possessions for that. Constructing bases for signals, especially as on the four track sections as they would have had to be converted to gantries, is the biggest driver of possessions for resignalling schemes outside of testing activities so as signals are going should be saving considerable access needs. Also given its paired running even cess work should allow teh centre roads to be kept open so only local services need bustitution.

The industry needs to get smarter at what access its taking vs providing viable weekend services where revenue generation opportunities are at their highest.
 

The Planner

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Balises can be done under line blockages shouldn't need to be taking full possessions for that. Constructing bases for signals, especially as on the four track sections as they would have had to be converted to gantries, is the biggest driver of possessions for resignalling schemes outside of testing activities so as signals are going should be saving considerable access needs. Also given its paired running even cess work should allow teh centre roads to be kept open so only local services need bustitution.

The industry needs to get smarter at what access its taking vs providing viable weekend services where revenue generation opportunities are at their highest.
Red zone working and line blockages are effectively banned and you have adjacent line open issues as well. Weekend revenue totals about the same as a Monday into Tuesday morning currently.
 

najaB

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Balises can be done under line blockages shouldn't need to be taking full possessions for that.
They can get more work done in a single possession than they can in a series of blockages. For example, on a four-track section of railway they can work on all four tracks at the same time - one full weekend possession equates to at least six and potentially as many as eight day-long line blockages.
 

Annetts key

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If multiple rail trolleys are being used to move equipment, or any on track plant is being used, you need a T3 possession.

Also, a complete block of all lines is the highest level in the safe working hierarchy, and a T3 possession is preferable to a line block that blocks all lines for a similar amount of time. Especially if some other related or non-related work is also taking place.
 

TSG

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Balises can be done under line blockages shouldn't need to be taking full possessions for that. Constructing bases for signals, especially as on the four track sections as they would have had to be converted to gantries, is the biggest driver of possessions for resignalling schemes outside of testing activities so as signals are going should be saving considerable access needs. Also given its paired running even cess work should allow teh centre roads to be kept open so only local services need bustitution.
Interesting you mention testing activities. I'm not involved with this so this is pure guesswork and could be cobblers, but it if I was involved I'd be looking at getting existing interlocking's interfaces (assuming at least some are to be reused) to the Radio Block Centres cut in and tested on a rolling program to use design/install/test resource efficiently. That way, when they switch over to ETCS, the RBCs have been ready and waiting to give Movement Authorities for months. Possessions would be handy for getting that kind of thing on the go maybe.....
 

HSTEd

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AIUI ETCS level 2 gets rid of the "lights on sticks", but there will still be a need for train detection equipment, and baileses to communicate with the trains.

Level 3 would get rid of much of the lineside kit but I think it's still largely theretical at this point.
ETCS Level 2 and up require on track balises but almost all will be "passive" balises that merely tell the train that it is now passing a certain point.

As for Level 3 being theoretical, sort of, at least as Level 3 was originally conceived.
But something approaching Level 3 appears ready for deployment - if you can have train integrity proving on all your trains. This is "Level 2/3 Hybrid" which has numerous other names.
 
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