St Pancras to Waterloo via London Bridge

[Norfolk25]

Some advice please.
My wife is not well and has limited mobility as well as balance problems.
We travel from Kings Lynn to SW destinations via Waterloo when we can.

We found that the Victoria line/change at Oxford Circus was too difficult due to the long walk at Kings Cross and deep tube escalators or waits for lifts. There is also obviously nowhere to sit and rest in the long passageway.
We then started to catch Thameslink to Blackfriars and have a leisurely walk along the South Bank. That worked fine for a few years but she would rather not walk that distance now.
It seems easier and more practical now to go from St Pancras to London Bridge, and then catch a train to Waterloo East.

Please advise if this is possible

We either buy: an off peak return Kings Lynn to Bournemouth/Weymouth/wherever, or an off peak return to Zone one plus a ticket from Waterloo. We are not bothered if there is an extra cost for this route, we just wondered if we could use the tickets we normally buy.

Sadly it's only when you get ill you realise how difficult simple trips can become

Thank you

 

[miklcct]

It's totally valid and possible, but it "officially" takes longer than the alternative options which may affect your Delay Repay entitlements when the trains are delayed.

Sadly it's only when you get ill you realise how difficult simple trips can become

Sadly our Underground system is too old that it may not be possible to retrofit accessibility into the Victorian-era system.

Can anyone advise if the change at Tottenham Court Road from Elizabeth line to Northern is disability-friendly?

 

[swt_passenger]

Some advice please.
My wife is not well and has limited mobility as well as balance problems.
We travel from Kings Lynn to SW destinations via Waterloo when we can.

We found that the Victoria line/change at Oxford Circus was too difficult due to the long walk at Kings Cross and deep tube escalators or waits for lifts. There is also obviously nowhere to sit and rest in the long passageway.
We then started to catch Thameslink to Blackfriars and have a leisurely walk along the South Bank. That worked fine for a few years but she would rather not walk that distance now.
It seems easier and more practical now to go from St Pancras to London Bridge, and then catch a train to Waterloo East.

Please advise if this is possible

We either buy: an off peak return Kings Lynn to Bournemouth/Weymouth/wherever, or an off peak return to Zone one plus a ticket from Waterloo. We are not bothered if there is an extra cost for this route, we just wondered if we could use the tickets we normally buy.

Sadly it's only when you get ill you realise how difficult simple trips can become

Thank you

I believe as long as your through ticket has either cross London eligibility, or you’re using a combination of a Kings Lynn travelcard and an onward ticket from Waterloo, then travelling via London Bridge and Waterloo East is fine.

I‘m pretty sure though, that a Kings Lynn to London Zone U1 ticket only gets you as far as Blackfriars or London Bridge due to dual availability on the Thameslink section, but not to Waterloo East. Hopefully someone else can confirm that.

However please bear in mind Waterloo East does also have fairly steep ramps, and quite a long covered passageway to Waterloo Main. Might be worth a trial run on your own because you’re best placed to know how your wife would cope.

 

[miklcct]

I‘m pretty sure though, that a Kings Lynn to London Zone U1 ticket only gets you as far as Blackfriars or London Bridge due to dual availability on the Thameslink section, but not to Waterloo East. Hopefully someone else can confirm that.

If the ticket to Bournemouth is issued from "London Terminals", it is valid from London Bridge, which joins up nicely with the U1 ticket.

Moreover, you can buy your ticket from Kings Lynn to Queenstown Road, which will be cheaper than buying a ticket to U1 and also valid to cross London.

 

[Watershed]

It's a valid route provided you have a cross-London ticket. Your cross-London transfer is St Pancras to City Thameslink and then City Thameslink is a London Terminal for the purposes of travel to/from the south. And City Thameslink-London Bridge-Waterloo East-Waterloo is a valid route to/from Bournemouth/Weymouth etc.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Some advice please.
My wife is not well and has limited mobility as well as balance problems.
We travel from Kings Lynn to SW destinations via Waterloo when we can.

We found that the Victoria line/change at Oxford Circus was too difficult due to the long walk at Kings Cross and deep tube escalators or waits for lifts. There is also obviously nowhere to sit and rest in the long passageway.
We then started to catch Thameslink to Blackfriars and have a leisurely walk along the South Bank. That worked fine for a few years but she would rather not walk that distance now.
It seems easier and more practical now to go from St Pancras to London Bridge, and then catch a train to Waterloo East.

Please advise if this is possible

We either buy: an off peak return Kings Lynn to Bournemouth/Weymouth/wherever, or an off peak return to Zone one plus a ticket from Waterloo. We are not bothered if there is an extra cost for this route, we just wondered if we could use the tickets we normally buy.

Sadly it's only when you get ill you realise how difficult simple trips can become

Thank you

Have you considered getting the Victoria Line direct from King's Cross to Vauxhall, then either doubling back to Waterloo or going onto Clapham? I'd say the former though because at Waterloo you'd have first dibs of seats.

Alternatively, you could take the circa- 10 minute walk from Kings Cross to Euston and jump on the 59 or 68 bus to Waterloo, which drop off immediately outside the main entrance by the McDonald's in the station (therefore quicker access to the mainline platforms). Annoyingly the 59 used to start from Kings Cross, but was cut back to Euston in 2019!

 

[Haywain]

A ticket from Kings Lynn to London Thameslink and London Terminals to Bournemouth (or wherever) will cover you requirements. You do not need a ticket to Zone U1 if you are not using London Underground services. I am aware of a ticket that could save you about three pounds from that, but I don’t think it is appropriate to state what that is on a public forum. @Norfolk25: send me a DM if you would like that information.

 

[paul1609]

You

Some advice please.
My wife is not well and has limited mobility as well as balance problems.
We travel from Kings Lynn to SW destinations via Waterloo when we can.

We found that the Victoria line/change at Oxford Circus was too difficult due to the long walk at Kings Cross and deep tube escalators or waits for lifts. There is also obviously nowhere to sit and rest in the long passageway.
We then started to catch Thameslink to Blackfriars and have a leisurely walk along the South Bank. That worked fine for a few years but she would rather not walk that distance now.
It seems easier and more practical now to go from St Pancras to London Bridge, and then catch a train to Waterloo East.

Please advise if this is possible

We either buy: an off peak return Kings Lynn to Bournemouth/Weymouth/wherever, or an off peak return to Zone one plus a ticket from Waterloo. We are not bothered if there is an extra cost for this route, we just wondered if we could use the tickets we normally buy.

Sadly it's only when you get ill you realise how difficult simple trips can become

Thank you

As others have said its a valid route but at London Bridge involves down to the concourse by lift/ escalator then back up again on another platform, then at Waterloo East a walk to the front of the train, a steep ramp and a walkway accross to the main station followed by a lift/ escalator down to the concourse. Personally Im guessing the easiest way is a cab from King's Cross to Waterloo £16 to £ 20 ish each way.
Im not experienced in North of London changes but if you get the Brighton train from Cambridge it's possible with a same/platform change at East Croydon to get to Southampton where its a simple over the bridge change for the Dorset Coast but its a very slow journey so I wouldn't use it myself.

 

[duncanp]

Another possibility is taking the Thameslink from St Pancras to City Thameslink, leaving the station by the Ludgate Circus exit (towards the front of the train when arriving from St Pancras) and then taking bus no 26 or 76 from the stop right outside the station to Waterloo.

A taxi from City Thameslink to Waterloo would not be too expensive either.

 

[ValleyLines142]

You

As others have said its a valid route but at London Bridge involves down to the concourse by lift/ escalator then back up again on another platform, then at Waterloo East a walk to the front of the train, a steep ramp and a walkway accross to the main station followed by a lift/ escalator down to the concourse. Personally Im guessing the easiest way is a cab from King's Cross to Waterloo £16 to £ 20 ish each way.
Im not experienced in North of London changes but if you get the Brighton train from Cambridge it's possible with a same/platform change at East Croydon to get to Southampton where its a simple over the bridge change for the Dorset Coast but its a very slow journey so I wouldn't use it myself.

The Victoria to Southampton service is very slow, combined with the Cambridge to Brighton service. Unless the OP isn't too bothered about extended journey times, I wouldn't advise this.

 

[freddie1729]

Have you considered getting the Victoria Line direct from King's Cross to Vauxhall, then either doubling back to Waterloo or going onto Clapham? I'd say the former though because at Waterloo you'd have first dibs of seats.

If you do take the Victoria line from King's Cross, use the Euston Road entrance to the tube. (Arriving on platforms 0-8 go straight ahead across the square). It's much less walking than the long corridor with no benches!

 

[APT618S]

Depending where in SW land is the final destination a slow option could be to use Thameslink between Kings Cross/St Pancras and Wimbledon (direct train but takes ~40mins) then on to the destination, places like Southampton or Portsmouth etc. would require a further change at Woking. Changing platforms at Wimbledon and Woking will not be too far to walk.

 

[Hadders]

It might be worth booking assistance at Kings Cross to assist you in exiting the station. One problem with the Kings Cross Underground station is the mis-leading signs to the Victoria Line. They deliberately send you the long way round via the new Northern Ticket Hall, it's a far shorter walk if you ignore the signs and go via the old tube ticket hall at the front of the station.

Another way which would involve less walking would be to catch a Thameslink train to Finsbury Park. This should give cross platform interchange to a Moorgate train.
Alight from the Moorgate train at Highbury & Islington where it's a cross platform interchange to the southbound Victoria Line
At Oxford Circus change to the Bakerloo Line which is another corss platform interchange
That just leaves exiting Waterloo to negotiate.

Alternatively you could stay on the Victoria Line to Vauxhall where there are lifts to from platform level, ultimately to the National Rail platforms (although it would onvolve 3 lifts in total). From there you could travel back to Waterloo.

 

[FenMan]

If you do take the Victoria line from King's Cross, use the Euston Road entrance to the tube. (Arriving on platforms 0-8 go straight ahead across the square). It's much less walking than the long corridor with no benches!

This is good advice. I learnt long ago that following TfL's preferred route results in an unnecessarily long walk. When travelling back to Lynn, join the back of the Victoria Line train and at King's Cross look backwards and take that exit (ignore the signs that push you in the other direction). Hop onto the adjacent escalator which will take you to the old King's Cross Underground ticket hall, then it's easy from there, either by going up some steps or using the underground passage that links King's Cross to St. Pancras (I do the former, but both options are quicker and easier than TfL's route).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Can anyone advise if the change at Tottenham Court Road from Elizabeth line to Northern is disability-friendly?

Sort of. There's a step-free route but, as with most of the interchanges to/from Crossrail, it's a significant distance due to the difficulty of fitting 250m long platforms in around existing infrastructure.

 

[tomuk]

Sort of. There's a step-free route but, as with most of the interchanges to/from Crossrail, it's a significant distance due to the difficulty of fitting 250m long platforms in around existing infrastructure.

No the Northern Line link at TCR is one of the shortest. The Eastern end of the Elizabeth Line platforms are right next to the Northern line platforms.

 

[davews]

If that dreaded long tunnel at KX is the main issue see:

King's Cross to Victoria Line - any way to avoid the long walk ?!

Hi there. Last time I tried to go from Kings Cross to the Victoria Line I remember it being a very long walk. Is there a quicker way to get to the Victoria Line at all and if so where is the best place to start at King's Cross ? Many thanks Claire

www.railforums.co.uk

and the very tongue in cheek article at:

Here’s How To Win At King’s Cross Station And Not Be Taken For A Fool

Since the redesign at King’s Cross, I’ve managed to waste countless days of my life wandering around long sections of the station’s corridors completely needlessly. However, I feel I have now cracked the system, and here’s how it works.

www.buzzfeed.com

quoted there.
Despite knowing the right way I often find myself in it 'accidentally'.

 

[Snow1964]

Going via London Bridge and Waterloo East will both require long walks at those stations.

The trick at Kings Cross - St Pancras is to know they have built additional ticket halls, and to fit these in there are long passageways to them. Basically if you ignore the signs to the Underground and keep heading towards the front of Kings Cross you find the original 1960s (fairly small) ticket hall with escalator straight down to Victoria line. Then use the Cross platform interchange at Oxford Circus to Bakerloo to take you onto Waterloo

I don’t know if your train calls at Finsbury Park, (or if your ticket allows you to do it), but joining the Victoria line there is a shorter walk than changing at Kings Cross (I haven’t done it for years, it used to be stairs, so unless they have added lifts might not be practical).

A variation (slightly more changes, but easy cross platform changes) is to get a Moorgate train at Finsbury Park, cross platform onto Victoria line at Highbury & Islington, cross platform at Oxford Circus onto Bakerloo to Waterloo. Might even be faster than going via London Bridge and is best for anyone who cannot walk far.

 

[Haywain]

Lots of people suggesting a shortcut at Kings Cross, but if you arriving at St Pancras Thameslink platforms, even the shortcut is a long walk.

 

[jon81uk]

Lots of people suggesting a shortcut at Kings Cross, but if you arriving at St Pancras Thameslink platforms, even the shortcut is a long walk.

But might give the OPs wife the option to sit on a bench at the Euston road end of St Pancras before entering the Underground. Whereas with the new entrance once you are walking the long corridors there are no benches until you get to the platform.

 

[miklcct]

No the Northern Line link at TCR is one of the shortest.

The change at Farringdon is known to be very disability-friendly with one lift going all the way from the Thameslink to Elizabeth line.

In such case will using Farringdon, Tottenham Court Road and Waterloo be a good option?

 

[Hadders]

The way that involves least walking is Finsbury Park, Highbury & Islington, Oxford Circus to Waterloo.

All cross platform interchanges with the exception of exiting at Waterloo.

 

[plugwash]

Lots of people suggesting a shortcut at Kings Cross, but if you arriving at St Pancras Thameslink platforms, even the shortcut is a long walk.

I don’t know if your train calls at Finsbury Park,

The OP said they were coming from Kings Lyn. IIRC the kings Lyn trains generally run a stopping service from Kings Lyn to Cambridge, then go no-stop to King's Cross, though a few trains towards London stop at Letchworth in the morning and a few trains away from london stop at Letchworth in the Evening rush hour.

The Semi-fast and Stopper trains from London to Cambridge terminate at Cambridge.

 

[Hadders]

The OP said they were coming from Kings Lyn. IIRC the kings Lyn trains generally run a stopping service from Kings Lyn to Cambridge, then go no-stop to King's Cross, though a few trains towards London stop at Letchworth in the morning and a few trains away from london stop at Letchworth in the Evening rush hour.

The Semi-fast and Stopper trains from London to Cambridge terminate at Cambridge.

The Kings Lynn trains don’t normally call at Finsbury Park but the OP did mention that they have travelled on Thameslink trains to get to Blackfriars, and these trains would call at Finsbury Park.

 

[plugwash]

The impressoin I got from the OP's post was that they were changing from GN to T:L at kings cross/st pancras. I guess one could also change at Cambridge, but idepending on what platforms you end up with and where you are on the train interchanges at Cambridge can involve annoyingly long walks nowadays due to the poor location of the footbridge.

 

[mmh]

It's totally valid and possible, but it "officially" takes longer than the alternative options which may affect your Delay Repay entitlements when the trains are delayed.

This isn't correct. There is no requirement to take the fastest train, or to use the fastest route. In many cases people will not even be aware they could change or use a different route to arrive earlier. A delayed service is a delayed service, and delay repay applies. What makes you say officially, and what makes you put it in quotation marks?

And then there's break of journey...

 

[miklcct]

This isn't correct. There is no requirement to take the fastest train, or to use the fastest route. In many cases people will not even be aware they could change or use a different route to arrive earlier. A delayed service is a delayed service, and delay repay applies. What makes you say officially, and what makes you put it in quotation marks?

And then there's break of journey...

I put the quotes around the word because it's normally irrelevant to passengers travelling on flexible tickets.

An example of using a route which will affect Delay Repay entitlement will be (using the timetable on 2022-08-19):

Great Northern 10:44 Kings Lynn - 12:32 London Kings Cross
Tube 12:47 London Kings Cross - 13:10 London Waterloo
South Western Railway 13:35 London Waterloo - 15:20 Bournemouth

v.s.

Great Northern 10:44 Kings Lynn - 12:32 London Kings Cross
Walk 12:42 London Kings Cross - 12:43 London St Pancras
Thameslink 12:54 London St Pancras - 13:08 London Bridge
Southeastern 13:25 London Bridge - 13:29 London Waterloo East
Walk 13:33 London Waterloo East - 13:34 London Waterloo
South Western Railway 14:05 London Waterloo - 16:00 Bournemouth

As you can see above, by using the route via London Bridge, the connection to the 13:35 train to Weymouth is fouled, although it is in practice achievable. That means, if there is a delay on the Great Northern train, but you miss the 13:35 train from Waterloo after going via London Bridge, you won't be entitled to Delay Repay. However, if you go by tube instead and miss the 13:35 train, you can claim Delay Repay for the whole journey.

More importantly, if you are using a through Advance ticket with reservations made on both 10:44 Kings Lynn - 12:32 London Kings Cross, and 13:35 London Waterloo - 15:20 Bournemouth services, if you go via London Bridge and there is a delay on the Thameslink, you will lose the right to take the next valid connection because you have fouled the official connection time by "deliberately delaying yourself while crossing London".

 

[Watershed]

I put the quotes around the word because it's normally irrelevant to passengers travelling on flexible tickets.

An example of using a route which will affect Delay Repay entitlement will be (using the timetable on 2022-08-19):

Great Northern 10:44 Kings Lynn - 12:32 London Kings Cross
Tube 12:47 London Kings Cross - 13:10 London Waterloo
South Western Railway 13:35 London Waterloo - 15:20 Bournemouth

v.s.

Great Northern 10:44 Kings Lynn - 12:32 London Kings Cross
Walk 12:42 London Kings Cross - 12:43 London St Pancras
Thameslink 12:54 London St Pancras - 13:08 London Bridge
Southeastern 13:25 London Bridge - 13:29 London Waterloo East
Walk 13:33 London Waterloo East - 13:34 London Waterloo
South Western Railway 14:05 London Waterloo - 16:00 Bournemouth

As you can see above, by using the route via London Bridge, the connection to the 13:35 train to Weymouth is fouled, although it is in practice achievable. That means, if there is a delay on the Great Northern train, but you miss the 13:35 train from Waterloo after going via London Bridge, you won't be entitled to Delay Repay. However, if you go by tube instead and miss the 13:35 train, you can claim Delay Repay for the whole journey.

More importantly, if you are using a through Advance ticket with reservations made on both 10:44 Kings Lynn - 12:32 London Kings Cross, and 13:35 London Waterloo - 15:20 Bournemouth services, if you go via London Bridge and there is a delay on the Thameslink, you will lose the right to take the next valid connection because you have fouled the official connection time by "deliberately delaying yourself while crossing London".

That's different though - you are talking about practically achievable but invalid itineraries.

 

[miklcct]

That's different though - you are talking about practically achievable but invalid itineraries.

I'm talking about a connection which is valid if the cross-London transfer is made by Tube but invalid if made by Thameslink and Southeastern.

 

[philthetube]

Some advice please.
My wife is not well and has limited mobility as well as balance problems.
We travel from Kings Lynn to SW destinations via Waterloo when we can.

We found that the Victoria line/change at Oxford Circus was too difficult due to the long walk at Kings Cross and deep tube escalators or waits for lifts. There is also obviously nowhere to sit and rest in the long passageway.
We then started to catch Thameslink to Blackfriars and have a leisurely walk along the South Bank. That worked fine for a few years but she would rather not walk that distance now.
It seems easier and more practical now to go from St Pancras to London Bridge, and then catch a train to Waterloo East.

Please advise if this is possible

We either buy: an off peak return Kings Lynn to Bournemouth/Weymouth/wherever, or an off peak return to Zone one plus a ticket from Waterloo. We are not bothered if there is an extra cost for this route, we just wondered if we could use the tickets we normally buy.

Sadly it's only when you get ill you realise how difficult simple trips can become

Thank you

Please don't bite my head off but.

Have you considered using a wheelchair, if you are able to push it.

I had experience with my mother who is able to walk around 400 yards without sitting down, when she injured her foot she had to use one for a while, after her foot recovered she continued to use it and we have been able to do many more things that we could otherwise have done, including things like walks round a local lake.

Prior to her injury she would not have been seen dead in one.