Senseless attack on 87 year old in Greenford, London

[Loppylugs]

What on earth is going on in this country ? The latest outrage is the stabbing of an 87 year-old man on a mobility scooter in Greenford. No doubt some brainless crud is celebrating a success of their latest "dare" challenge.
So how should we punish these "people" if caught ? Certainly name and shame regardless of age, no anonymity for being "under age". If you are dangerous enough to kill then no hiding place. Also no change of i/d when released, how would any future partner know what type of person they are living with ?

 

[Bertie the bus]

An image of the man they are looking for has been released and he certainly isn't underage so if he is the murderer he will be punished in exactly the same way as any other murderer. Named, tried and sentenced to life imprisonment if found guilty of murder rather than manslaughter due to diminished responsibility.

 

[skyhigh]

No doubt some brainless crud is celebrating a success of their latest "dare" challenge.

May I be the first to suggest I doubt that.

 

[Gloster]

This has been going on for years. It is just that now it, complete with pictures, talking heads, graphs, etc., can be in you living room in minutes.

Although I am on the left and seen as soft on crime, I am quite willing to see cases like this resulting in a life sentence. By ‘life’, I mean a minimum of a substantial number of years and no release until the offender is so old or weak that they are incapable of reoffending. I don’t have an atavistic thirst for revenge or punishment, but I do have a belief that those whose actions are contrary to the common good should face sanctions.

 

[duncanp]

So how should we punish these "people" if caught ? Certainly name and shame regardless of age, no anonymity for being "under age". If you are dangerous enough to kill then no hiding place. Also no change of i/d when released, how would any future partner know what type of person they are living with ?

I agree with this.

If you are old enough to do the crime, you are old enough to suffer the consequences.

The presumption should be that you are named if you are convicted of the crime, but a judge could decide if there are extenuating circumstances which justify anonymity.

By ‘life’, I mean a minimum of a substantial number of years and no release until the offender is so old or weak that they are incapable of reoffending.

I also think this is appropriate.

Perhaps even then they should be sent to an "open" prison, or some kind of accomodation where their life is severely restricted, and they can spend the remainder of their days contemplating the consequences of their actions.

 

[AlterEgo]

The presumption should be that you are named if you are convicted of the crime, but a judge could decide if there are extenuating circumstances which justify anonymity.

That is the current situation with youth offenders in the Crown Court though.

 

[Busaholic]

If we are not to reintroduce the possibility of the death sentence for such murders the much greater use of whole term life sentences is going to have to be the reality. It might see the incidence of these savage attacks decrease, though I doubt it, unfortunately, but at least the public are spared a recurrence by the particular individual. With such a good image on CCTV it shouldn't be too difficult to establish his identity, though locating him might be more difficult. I hope so.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Perhaps even then they should be sent to an "open" prison, or some kind of accomodation where their life is severely restricted, and they can spend the remainder of their days contemplating the consequences of their actions.

That's actually not a bad idea from a left wing perspective too. They do the initial time, but then the rest of their life effectively requires them to return to an open prison every evening, for which they pay the market rate.

You don't deny them a family life or a normal working existence after 15 years inside, but spending from 10pm-6am every night for the rest of their life in an open prison dormitory would certainly send a message. Effectively, the message is clear: every single night for the rest of your life is spent in this miserable grey barrack with no exceptions, unless you're in hospital.

 

[Busaholic]

That's actually not a bad idea from a left wing perspective too. They do the initial time, but then the rest of their life effectively requires them to return to an open prison every evening, for which they pay the market rate.

You don't deny them a family life or a normal working existence after 15 years inside, but spending from 10pm-6am every night for the rest of their life in an open prison dormitory would certainly send a message. Effectively, the message is clear: every single night for the rest of your life is spent in this miserable grey barrack with no exceptions, unless you're in hospital.

Got to say that is entirely unworkable and, in any case, no government would consider it for a second. Dangerous psychopaths are only fascinating to delusional people (mainly women) who think they are the person who could turn the prisoner round to a decent, fulfilled life if only given a chance. The type of crime featured in this thread is not the act of a 'normal' person, whether or not they are found fit to stand trial. Speaking of left wing, both Angela Rayner and Jess Phillips have been scornful of the notion that vicious thugs should be spared long prison sentences. It's the chattering Islington class never personally exposed to the real world of most of us who pontificate about rehabilitation, but wouldn't dream of employing such a person themselves.

 

[Cletus]

https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1559883133360676864

Please share | Do you recognise this man? An 87-year-old grandfather was brutally murdered in Greenford shortly after 4pm yesterday. This man was seen running away from the scene with a knife.

0208 358 0300 and reference 4691/16AUG with any information.

 

[GB]

That's actually not a bad idea from a left wing perspective too. They do the initial time, but then the rest of their life effectively requires them to return to an open prison every evening, for which they pay the market rate.

You don't deny them a family life or a normal working existence after 15 years inside, but spending from 10pm-6am every night for the rest of their life in an open prison dormitory would certainly send a message. Effectively, the message is clear: every single night for the rest of your life is spent in this miserable grey barrack with no exceptions, unless you're in hospital.

That's effectively "out on license". How's that any different? Frankly if you have murdered someone in such fashion you shouldn't see anything other than a cell and courtyard....ever.

 

[Cloud Strife]

That's effectively "out on license". How's that any different? Frankly if you have murdered someone in such fashion you shouldn't see anything other than a cell and courtyard....ever.

The thing is that American-style punishment also doesn't work. All it does is create a lucrative prison industry, nothing more.

There's a huge difference between being out on license and being able to do essentially what you want and a sentence in which you have to spend every night in spartan dormitory-type accommodation too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2022 ==

Got to say that is entirely unworkable and, in any case, no government would consider it for a second. Dangerous psychopaths are only fascinating to delusional people (mainly women) who think they are the person who could turn the prisoner round to a decent, fulfilled life if only given a chance. The type of crime featured in this thread is not the act of a 'normal' person, whether or not they are found fit to stand trial. Speaking of left wing, both Angela Rayner and Jess Phillips have been scornful of the notion that vicious thugs should be spared long prison sentences. It's the chattering Islington class never personally exposed to the real world of most of us who pontificate about rehabilitation, but wouldn't dream of employing such a person themselves.

Why wouldn't it work? We already release people on licence, except in this case, we're actually continuing the punishment by forcing them to return to prison accommodation every night. It's not 15 years and 'effectively free to do what you want as long as you behave', but 15 years and then potentially 50-60 years of sleeping night after night in a lousy dormitory.

 

[Gloster]

Are they dormitories in the British or American sense? In the British sense it means a single large room containing a number of beds. In the American sense it is a building containing separate rooms, which might only house a single person. I believe that in British open prisons the inmates are locked in their small cell overnight, which is a cell block or wing to my mind.

Personally, I think that day release should not come until you are approaching final release. The one problem with very long sentences is the way that some prisoners are going to be more likely to take their anger out on the warders.

 

[johncrossley]

You cannot stop random acts of violence, as long as humans have freewill. Even the most advanced and least violent societies on earth experience outrages every so often.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Are they dormitories in the British or American sense? In the British sense it means a single large room containing a number of beds. In the American sense it is a building containing separate rooms, which might only house a single person. I believe that in British open prisons the inmates are locked in their small cell overnight, which is a cell block or wing to my mind.

British sense. I prefer the idea of dormitories, because it's a horrible punishment: 50 or more years with every night in a large domitory with perhaps 50 other men, with almost no exceptions. After 10-15 years in prison with a life sentence, you're going to know if they're capable of functioning in normal society or not.

Personally, I think that day release should not come until you are approaching final release. The one problem with very long sentences is the way that some prisoners are going to be more likely to take their anger out on the warders.

Yes, the Norwegians in particular understand this. If someone has spent 10 years in prison and watched their life pass by with no meaning or purpose, then they can lash out through sheer frustration.

 

[duncanp]

A 44 year old man has been arrested on suspicion of murder

Greenford mobility scooter killing: Man arrested over stabbing

A man is arrested on suspicion of murder after the stabbing of Thomas O'Halloran in London.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thomas O'Halloran: Man arrested over Greenford mobility scooter killing​

A man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the stabbing of a grandfather on a mobility scooter in west London.
Thomas O'Halloran, 87, died at the scene on Cayton Road, Greenford, after being attacked just after 16:00 BST on Tuesday.
A 44-year-old man was arrested at an address in nearby Southall, police say.
Det Ch Insp Jim Eastwood thanked the public "for their overwhelming support following this horrific incident."

Mr O'Halloran, who was originally from Ennistymon, Co Clare, in the west of Ireland, was attacked while on his way to busk, according to a friend.
The victim's family is being supported by specially trained officers, the Metropolitan Police has said.
It is the sixth murder investigation to be launched in London in the past four days and the 66th this year.