Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[Andy Pacer]

It is listed, as was the Arriva depot in Southgates in Leicester

Walkergate is off Shields Road past Byker.

The listed bit of Southgates still remains.

 

[Mal]

Reported on BBC News today that Arriva North West drivers have voted against the latest offer, so the strike continues!

 

[childwallblues]

Reported on BBC News today that Arriva North West drivers have voted against the latest offer, so the strike continues!

The offer that was turned down was reported to be good hence the union putting it to the drivers. It would not surprise me if Arriva did not increase the offer. If the company is losing a lot of money as is reported would they be saving money by not paying drivers wages and keeping the buses in the depots?

 

[SSmith2009]

The listed bit of Southgates still remains.

the side entrance was the only remaining part and was restored - shame about the awful looking buildings to replace the depot.

Frontage to the former Midlands Bus Depost Peacock Lane 2017 004

This is a picture of the entrance to a former Arriva Midlands bus site. This frontage is now listed. Looks pretty grand in this picture. The site was opened by Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited on Thursday 21st July 1927. In 2009 the site was on the market for £1.5m, and...

www.flickr.com

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The listed bit of Southgates still remains.

Indeed but only that limited bit of the frontage remains (same as with part of the old Salford/GMPTE depot at Frederick Road).

Quite something in that Arriva have closed NINE depots in the North East (excluding ones like Durham that had a like for like replacement) and Jesmond will be the tenth.

 

[Andy Pacer]

the side entrance was the only remaining part and was restored - shame about the awful looking buildings to replace the depot.

Frontage to the former Midlands Bus Depost Peacock Lane 2017 004

This is a picture of the entrance to a former Arriva Midlands bus site. This frontage is now listed. Looks pretty grand in this picture. The site was opened by Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited on Thursday 21st July 1927. In 2009 the site was on the market for £1.5m, and...

www.flickr.com

Indeed but only that limited bit of the frontage remains (same as with part of the old Salford/GMPTE depot at Frederick Road).

Big shame. I enjoyed working there.

 

[jammy36]

The listed bit of Southgates still remains.

The surviving frontage of Southgates is not listed (indeed... I'm not sure any of the garage was ever listed?).

 

[Andy Pacer]

The surviving frontage of Southgates is not listed (indeed... I'm not sure any of the garage was ever listed?).

No idea then. There must have been some reason it was left intact.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The surviving frontage of Southgates is not listed (indeed... I'm not sure any of the garage was ever listed?).

I thought it was but stand corrected

 

[jammy36]

No idea then. There must have been some reason it was left intact.

I believe the original architect's intention was that the retained entrance would have opened onto a garden courtyard for a mixed use scheme including a hotel. I think there was even the idea for a vintage bus to be positioned in the courtyard and used as a cafe. Thus the entrance was retained when the site was cleared. I'm guessing economic issues said otherwise and the revised plans were somewhat less ambitious and the retained entrance left with no purpose - other than token facadism.

 

[Mal]

The offer that was turned down was reported to be good hence the union putting it to the drivers. It would not surprise me if Arriva did not increase the offer. If the company is losing a lot of money as is reported would they be saving money by not paying drivers wages and keeping the buses in the depots?

If Arriva is losing money, would it not be easier to sell or close down as DB (the owners) have been trying to sell Arriva for ages?

 

[childwallblues]

If Arriva is losing money, would it not be easier to sell or close down as DB (the owners) have been trying to sell Arriva for ages?

Or give the drivers the ultimatum to accept what is a very good offer or it will be withdrawn by a certain date?

 

[A0]

If Arriva is losing money, would it not be easier to sell or close down as DB (the owners) have been trying to sell Arriva for ages?

The reality is probably a little more complex than saying "it's losing money" - there are probably elements which are profitable and elements which aren't - even within "divisions".

It's unlikely Arriva will find a buyer for the whole thing (unless it was an investment / Venture Capitalist type arrangement) because its competitors would have to run the gauntlet of the Competition and Markets Authority with every chance they'd be told to divest certain parts as a condition of buying or similar.

Most of Arriva's competitors will be aware of what operations are likely to be profitable and loss making - and Arriva will be more interested in divesting the loss making ones whereas outsiders will be interested in the profitable ones.

Closing it down won't happen - Arriva would then be on the hook for redundancy payments which would probably be significant.

I suspect Arriva will continue to sell things piecemeal depending on who offers them what until what's left is sufficiently small / insignificant that it can be closed or disposed of for a peppercorn amount.

 

[daodao]

Closing it down won't happen - Arriva would then be on the hook for redundancy payments which would probably be significant.

I suspect Arriva will continue to sell things piecemeal depending on who offers them what until what's left is sufficiently small / insignificant that it can be closed or disposed of for a peppercorn amount.

What Arriva seem to do is retrench gradually from areas where they operate, by:

• withdrawal of specific routes
• reducing frequencies on routes they keep
• cutting evening/weekend services on routes they still run Mon-Fri daytime
• consolidation of depots and downgrading some depots to outstations

Occasionally they do sell-off small local area networks, as in Cannock.

The prolonged strikes in some areas will not be helping the long-term viability of bus services in these areas.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Or give the drivers the ultimatum to accept what is a very good offer or it will be withdrawn by a certain date?

Clearly it's not that good an offer if 79% of drivers turned it down on an 84% turnout.

The Echo report it to be 9.4%, which is quite a way below the 11% that Stagecoach Merseyside awarded to their drivers.

 

[A0]

What Arriva seem to do is retrench gradually from areas where they operate, by:

• withdrawal of specific routes
• reducing frequencies on routes they keep
• cutting evening/weekend services on routes they still run Mon-Fri daytime
• consolidation of depots and downgrading some depots to outstations

Occasionally they do sell-off small local area networks, as in Cannock.

The prolonged strikes in some areas will not be helping the long-term viability of bus services in these areas.

To be fair - all operators do those steps you've outlined, it's not unique to Arriva.

But there's a logical commercial process behind that -

- withdrawing specific routes will be where the route overall is profitable
- reducing frequencies will be where a route is marginal and it is felt that reducing the cost of operating the route will not reduce the usage by the same level - in other words if a route which is every 30 minutes still gets 75% of its custom when run hourly then it makes commercial sense to do that
- evening and weekend services are more lightly used and in the case of evening services it may mean they can reduce the number of shifts needed to cover the service
- consolidation of depots - partly because modern vehicles are more reliable, but there has long been a move by all the operators to reduce the number of depots they operate - to give a different example Southern Vectis on the Isle of Wight used to have depots scattered across the island at Ryde, Shanklin, Ventnor as well as Newport - now they just have Newport.

 

[Mal]

Just been reported on BBC News that agreement may have been reached and that Arriva buses should be operaring tomorrow. Confirmation later.

 

[sonic2009]

Confirmed on Unite Website and Arriva statement - strike suspended in the North West as of 3am tomorrow Thursday 18th.

Arriva North West strike suspended after 11.1% pay offer

Strikes at Arriva North West have been called off after the company put forward an improved pay offer, Unite, the UK’s leading union, said today (Wednesday 17 August).

www.unitetheunion.org

Strikes at Arriva North West have been called off after the company put forward an improved pay offer, Unite, the UK’s leading union, said today (Wednesday 17 August).

Around 1,800 workers who have been on strike since 20 July will return to work from tomorrow and be balloted on the offer.

The ballot will be conducted over the next two days with the result declared on Friday afternoon.

The one year 11.1 per cent offer, which will be backdated to April, applies to more than 2,000 Unite members.

Unite regional officer Dave Roberts said: “Following our members’ very strong rejection of the company’s offer yesterday evening, Arriva have seen sense and met the demands of our members by tabling an 11.1 per cent pay deal. Unite’s negotiating team is recommending the offer be accepted and it is being put to members in a vote.

“The strike is suspended pending the outcome of the ballot and drivers are to return to work tomorrow to serve the needs of the community and public. The determination and resolve of our members has been solid throughout the industrial action and we thank those who have provided support and assistance to secure the offer from the company.”

Latest News - Arriva UK Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

Arriva North West is today able to confirm that following ongoing discussions in recent weeks, all parties have come to an agreement on an unprecedented pay deal for Arriva North West drivers.

Following a meeting today, in which the agreement was reached, Unions will now take this recommended offer to our colleagues.

Furthermore, it has also been agreed that industrial action across Cheshire, Lancashire, Manchester and Merseyside will be suspended from 3am on Thursday 18th August and all parties will now work together to progress the pay offer.

Arriva would like to thank our customers across the North West region, for your continued patience in recent weeks, during the extremely challenging Strike period. Timetable and Journey information, for Arriva North West services returning on Thursday 18th August can be found online at arrivabus.co.uk and via the Arriva journey planning.

 

[317 forever]

The Jesmond site is prime real estate, I'm amazed it's lasted as long as it has. But I'm not buying the "cost of land" excuse, east Newcastle is full of unused industrial land.

Most of the stuff can be run from Blyth without too much dead running for the buses, Arriva have very little "local" stuff in Newcastle these days. A dead run from Whitley Bay or Cramlington back to Jesmond isn't much different to a dead run to Blyth. Even the 50s finish the day in Killingworth or Shiremoor and from there it's a short blast up the A19.

Swapping drivers through the day, that'll be more interesting.

As others have said, the 685 is the big one and, to be quite honest, leaving that to Stagecoach Cumberland would be no bad thing these days

Maybe the Arriva journeys from Jesmond could transfer to Stagecoach and run from one of their Newcastle depots?

 

[Geordie driver]

Maybe the Arriva journeys from Jesmond could transfer to Stagecoach and run from one of their Newcastle depots?

Not sure why Arriva would choose to give up profitable routes to a competitor? I think the 685 will have to go elsewhere just for the logistics of it. Arriva/Northumbria were always the small fry operator in Newcastle and there seemed to be a gentlemen's agreement ( for the most part) not to step on each other's toes regarding route competition, Stagecoach would have hammered Arriva in such a scenario.

Jesmond appears to be in free fall, I went out for a 43 in the evening last week and according to bustimes.org there were no vehicles at all running on that service, which has been cut in half to improve " reliability". There were loads waiting for it too, I ended up getting a taxi. They seem to think this level of service is reasonable.

Apparently and service supervisor ended up doing the last run on the 43!

I am loathe to buy a day ticket which I might be unable to use all day because the company can't be bothered.

If you want to guarantee getting somewhere on time taxis are the only option in my area now.

Those who wish to remain driving buses and don't want to transfer to Ashington or Blyth are going to Stagecoach for the most part as they are seen as the best option, so poor are the conditions at Arriva.

 

[Simon75]

Jesmond, I believe is listed, so not sure what sure they can do with the site, would another operator buy it (I'm sure there is at least one, so Arriva North East garage, now owned by another operator

 

[A0]

Jesmond, I believe is listed, so not sure what sure they can do with the site, would another operator buy it (I'm sure there is at least one, so Arriva North East garage, now owned by another operator

Often it's not the whole building which is listed - instead it can be elements of it or a frontage. Looking at it on Streetview, I suspect the frontage is listed, but the bits behind it aren't.

So it could easily be converted to housing or a supermarket providing the frontage is retained.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Jesmond, I believe is listed, so not sure what sure they can do with the site, would another operator buy it (I'm sure there is at least one, so Arriva North East garage, now owned by another operator

The building is grade 2 listed. The details can be found here:

United Automobile Services Ltd Bus Depot, Non Civil Parish - 1024795 | Historic England

List entry 1024795. Grade II Listed Building: United Automobile Services Ltd Bus Depot. May include summary, reasons for designation and history.

historicengland.org.uk

However, that doesn't mean that it cannot be developed or changed. Suffice to say, it won't be sold to another bus operator!

 

[Statto]

Not sure why Arriva would choose to give up profitable routes to a competitor? I think the 685 will have to go elsewhere just for the logistics of it. Arriva/Northumbria were always the small fry operator in Newcastle and there seemed to be a gentlemen's agreement ( for the most part) not to step on each other's toes regarding route competition, Stagecoach would have hammered Arriva in such a scenario.

Jesmond appears to be in free fall, I went out for a 43 in the evening last week and according to bustimes.org there were no vehicles at all running on that service, which has been cut in half to improve " reliability". There were loads waiting for it too, I ended up getting a taxi. They seem to think this level of service is reasonable.

Apparently and service supervisor ended up doing the last run on the 43!

I am loathe to buy a day ticket which I might be unable to use all day because the company can't be bothered.

If you want to guarantee getting somewhere on time taxis are the only option in my area now.

Those who wish to remain driving buses and don't want to transfer to Ashington or Blyth are going to Stagecoach for the most part as they are seen as the best option, so poor are the conditions at Arriva.

Because of the logistics, Arriva could well decide to interwork the 685 but even that could be rather tricky given drivers hours, as round trip on the 685 are timed to take just under 5 hours

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Because of the logistics, Arriva could well decide to interwork the 685 but even that could be rather tricky given drivers hours, as round trip on the 685 are timed to take just under 5 hours

Interworking from Blyth would be fraught with problems with a long service, as you describe. There are other options available though...

• They could have some form of route swap with Stagecoach (Busways not North West) though what they might be willing to exchange those for, I don't know
• They could look to have a deal with Go North East and effect some sort of swap with GNE operating the Arriva boards from Hexham
• Or they could cut their involvement... operate only between Newcastle and Hexham (2 vehicles that could be interworked from Blyth) and let Stagecoach operate the Hexham to Carlisle section. They lose a board to Stagecoach but it's not the end of the world.

Given they've announced the decision not to proceed with a Newcastle depot, you would assume that the decision about the 685 has already been worked through. To be honest, the 685 since they sold Hexham depot has been poorly served by Arriva with the Primas being replaced by hammered Omnicities and now increasingly tatty Pulsars.

 

[Statto]

I'm thinking not necessary operating the 685 from Blyth, or even Ashington, but Arriva could operate the 685 from Durham, & maybe interwork the 685 with the X12, Durham isn't ideal, but seems much easier to get into Newcastle, than either Blyth or Ashington does.

Definably agree on the vehicle allocation, Stagecoach are allocating E400MMC deckers to the 685 whilst Arriva allocate Pulsars

 

[Kuyoyo]

I'm thinking not necessary operating the 685 from Blyth, or even Ashington, but Arriva could operate the 685 from Durham, & maybe interwork the 685 with the X12, Durham isn't ideal, but seems much easier to get into Newcastle, than either Blyth or Ashington does.

Definably agree on the vehicle allocation, Stagecoach are allocating E400MMC deckers to the 685 whilst Arriva allocate Pulsars

Can't interwork the 685 and X12 - the majority of the X12 is presently operated by Stockton depot which means a Newcastle trips is half a driving shift (Durham depot currently only operate 2 early morning weekday trips - the first journey from Coxhoe to Durham and the first departure from Middlesbrough to Durham, both which wouldn't fit onto the current X12 boards - and a round trip from Durham to Middlesbrough at 1750 and the 1910 return journey on a Saturday, again because they don't fit onto Stockton's X12 workings presently as the weekday versions of that journey have been Stockton operated since April last year).

As for vehicles, Stagecoach's MMCs are capacity-overkill most of the time - indeed, the use of the E300s bought for the route in 2014 while they were away match capacity, and those have the same engine etc underneath as the Pulsars Arriva use. Arriva only allocate a decker to one board in school term as it hits the afternoon school finishing time on its way back from Carlisle.

 

[DunsBus]

Interworking from Blyth would be fraught with problems with a long service, as you describe. There are other options available though...

• They could have some form of route swap with Stagecoach (Busways not North West) though what they might be willing to exchange those for, I don't know
• They could look to have a deal with Go North East and effect some sort of swap with GNE operating the Arriva boards from Hexham
• Or they could cut their involvement... operate only between Newcastle and Hexham (2 vehicles that could be interworked from Blyth) and let Stagecoach operate the Hexham to Carlisle section. They lose a board to Stagecoach but it's not the end of the world.

Given they've announced the decision not to proceed with a Newcastle depot, you would assume that the decision about the 685 has already been worked through. To be honest, the 685 since they sold Hexham depot has been poorly served by Arriva with the Primas being replaced by hammered Omnicities and now increasingly tatty Pulsars.

I think splitting the 685 at Hexham is the most likely outcome (the Sunday service is already split IIRC). Other than enthusiasts, there must be very little demand for end to end travel.
In fact, I can see the 685 being curtailed to operate Carlisle - Hexham only with the GNE 10 and the Tyne Valley line picking up the rest of the slack.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm thinking not necessary operating the 685 from Blyth, or even Ashington, but Arriva could operate the 685 from Durham, & maybe interwork the 685 with the X12, Durham isn't ideal, but seems much easier to get into Newcastle, than either Blyth or Ashington does.

Definably agree on the vehicle allocation, Stagecoach are allocating E400MMC deckers to the 685 whilst Arriva allocate Pulsars

As @Kuyoyo says, the X12 is the Newcastle to Middlesbrough route and is mainly Stockton depot. Even if you could do something to transfer boards to Durham, it would be very complex and also, the X12 is no better than interworking with the X10/X11 from Blyth in terms of reliability/time.

Also, deckers aren't needed on there (aside the odd school run - think Haydon Bridge??) and so even whilst the Pulsars aren't bad machines, they are getting on and some newer singles would be needed sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, the newer fleet in Arriva NE happens to be Streetlites!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2022 ==

I think splitting the 685 at Hexham is the most likely outcome (the Sunday service is already split IIRC). Other than enthusiasts, there must be very little demand for end to end travel.
In fact, I can see the 685 being curtailed to operate Carlisle - Hexham only with the GNE 10 and the Tyne Valley line picking up the rest of the slack.

Don't know if I quite agree with all that. Granted, end-to-end travel is minimal - I have done it once as a non-enthusiast as I was in Newcastle and my team was playing Carlisle Utd and it was cheaper to get an Explorer than a train!

However, there is demand from Newcastle to Hexham that the train or the 10 (or the 684) doesn't really cater for. Splitting it at Hexham is perhaps the most logical move I can think of.

 

[DunsBus]

As @Kuyoyo says, the X12 is the Newcastle to Middlesbrough route and is mainly Stockton depot. Even if you could do something to transfer boards to Durham, it would be very complex and also, the X12 is no better than interworking with the X10/X11 from Blyth in terms of reliability/time.

Also, deckers aren't needed on there (aside the odd school run - think Haydon Bridge??) and so even whilst the Pulsars aren't bad machines, they are getting on and some newer singles would be needed sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, the newer fleet in Arriva NE happens to be Streetlites!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Aug 2022 ==


Don't know if I quite agree with all that. Granted, end-to-end travel is minimal - I have done it once as a non-enthusiast as I was in Newcastle and my team was playing Carlisle Utd and it was cheaper to get an Explorer than a train!

However, there is demand from Newcastle to Hexham that the train or the 10 (or the 684) doesn't really cater for. Splitting it at Hexham is perhaps the most logical move I can think of.

I had cause to use the 685 from Haltwhistle to Newcastle early last year, due to a train cancellation. Waiting for the next eastbound train wasn't an option, as there was nowhere to pass the time because of the lockdown and by getting the bus it meant I could get a slightly later train from Newcastle to Berwick and arrive there 20 minutes later than intended, rather than an hour later It was certainly a good run but I noticed how quiet the bus was at Haltwhistle - it was only on the approach to Newcastle that the bus started to get busy.