What’s going on with Thameslink?

[XIX7007177]

Absolute shambles. I think everyone would like to switch back to a reliable Peterborough to Kings Cross service and then walk to St Pancras if necessary.

 

[Failed Unit]

Absolute shambles. I think everyone would like to switch back to a reliable Peterborough to Kings Cross service and then walk to St Pancras if necessary.

Considering that the WGC - Sevenoaks is a new service and people are waiting for it (as it follows a Moorgate) - I think a lot of people appreciate the direct train. I know I do rather than walking across St Pancras or waiting at Finsbury Park (Neither of which are a hardship for an able bodied fit person) - But I do appreciate I am lucky as I have lots of plan B's the good people of Peterborough don't.

I don't for example why Peterborough is binned every Saturday when they don't have an alternative when Cambridge - Brighton stays. Surely the Cambridge on should go as they have both the Cambridge - Kings Cross and Great northern alternatives (although they can be patchy as well)

 

[NorthKent1989]

There's a lot of dissatisfaction in the Medway Towns about regular cancellations on the Thameslink Rainham service and calls for Southeastern, who themselves aren't immune from criticism, to take over the service east of Dartford.

Yep! Having used to live in Rochester I can attest to how unreliable Thameslink have been since they took over the Medway service, I currently live in Blackheath and I regularly hear those coming from the Woolwich line grumbling about how bad the service can be.

Especially since it leaves Higham with large gaps between trains (High Speed trains don’t call there so they’re left with only Thameslink)

Now that CrossRail has opened at Abbey Wood, Medway and Gravesend commuters have been calling for better services to Abbey Wood.

Southeastern aren’t perfect but the old semi fast CX-Gillingham service was 9 times out of ten a very reliable and useful service that is much missed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2022 ==

There have been calls for that to happen for a while, that's not to say it's likely to happen. What benefits does Thameslink bring to the Medway Towns? Southeastern could run exactly the same service as far as Charlton and for St Pancras the high speed service is much quicker.

It doesn’t even benefit any station east of Charlton much, the Elizabeth line is the game changer for this area, faster to Farringdon too, over the last four years whenever I’ve had to use the Rainham service I’ve noticed that not many people use it beyond Blackfriars and that it pretty much empties out at London Bridge as more people either change for Charing Cross trains or they’ve reached the end of their commute to London.

Unfortunately I don’t see any changes to services around the Woolwich line occurring any time soon, even though the novelty of they Thameslink has long since worn off.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2022 ==

Is there? Where are the calls for SE to take over? I’d like to have my say as a regular user of the line!

the Gravesend/Medway end are dissatisfied with Thameslink and they’re right to be, for the first two years it ran an hourly services and it’s usually the first service that gets cancelled whenever there’s disruption.

 

[londonmidland]

Thameslink service has once again gone down the pan due to OLE issues in the Biggleswade area, as well as electrical supply problems at London Blackfriars.

 

[WizCastro197]

Was looking at that myself this morning. Earlswood only has a poor hourly service most Sunday's and is regularly canned - So I'd recommend Redhill to Gatwick. This weekend the Bedford's are supposed to call but correct timetable is not uploaded yet as there are still services earlier than 7:30am which is not possible day after strike.

When connecting at Gatwick - If you go out the north escalator on P2 or 3 at Gatwick whichever you arrive at, it states "No Exit" but actually is the faster route to P7 where Hove trains tend to go from.

Okay Thanks so much for your help! I do wonder why a few years later (after the addition and opening of P7) they have not allowed access to every platform from every platform? Will this be included in the currently under construction Gatwick Upgrade?

RTT does not show Any Portsmouth Trains stopping at Redhill on Sunday. Is this because the line between Three bridges and Horsham will be closed? I only thought this as my onward connection from GTW is a Portsmouth Harbour Train via Hove and Worthing, rather than (as expected) a Littlehampton train (but I don't think Littlehampton gets a London Service on Sunday does it?)

EDIT: I have just checked if my second statement was correct on RTT and it now shows the Bedford trains stopping at Earlswood.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thameslink service has once again gone down the pan due to OLE issues in the Biggleswade area, as well as electrical supply problems at London Blackfriars.

I was wondering why the problems were getting imported to the Cambridge - Brighton & Cambridge to Kings Cross services. Never rains but it pours.

 

[Minstral25]

Okay Thanks so much for your help! I do wonder why a few years later (after the addition and opening of P7) they have not allowed access to every platform from every platform? Will this be included in the currently under construction Gatwick Upgrade?

RTT does not show Any Portsmouth Trains stopping at Redhill on Sunday. Is this because the line between Three bridges and Horsham will be closed? I only thought this as my onward connection from GTW is a Portsmouth Harbour Train via Hove and Worthing, rather than (as expected) a Littlehampton train (but I don't think Littlehampton gets a London Service on Sunday does it?)

EDIT: I have just checked if my second statement was correct on RTT and it now shows the Bedford trains stopping at Earlswood.

No plans to upgrade 1/2 at Gatwick so will remain difficult exit/change for Redhill route customers but extra escalators on 3 & 4 for odd train that arrives on 3.

RTT needs updating for Sunday for reason I mentioned above but that was the plan because Three Bridges to Horsham is closed (see Southern Engineering works page)

 

[WizCastro197]

No plans to upgrade 1/2 at Gatwick so will remain difficult exit/change for Redhill route customers but extra escalators on 3 & 4 for odd train that arrives on 3.

RTT needs updating for Sunday for reason I mentioned above but that was the plan because Three Bridges to Horsham is closed (see Southern Engineering works page)

Southern Engineering is where I Went first. I’ve looked again
Must’ve missed it before!

Disappointing about the first part. On every day except for Sunday,I believe southern services do not run form Victoria to Brighton and I think the majority of Thameslinks to Brighton Operate from P7 ( I may well be wrong as last time I went to Gatwick I think 5&6 were closed so that’s probably why) but other south coast bound trains operate from P7 where many connecting Redhill line passengers would go for other trains to a more diverse array of destinations

Isn't Platform 2 very narrow? Maybe its another one but I can't recall, I think I got a thameslink north bound to Redhill in march from there so its not great that its not going to be widened of at least the brick entity in the middle demolished


Edit: I’ve checked on Southerns Departure boards as I think it is one of the most useful departure tools and Most of the departures to the south are from PLT 7

 

[Minstral25]

Southern Engineering is where I Went first. I’ve looked again
Must’ve missed it before!

Disappointing about the first part. On every day except for Sunday,I believe southern services do not run form Victoria to Brighton and I think the majority of Thameslinks to Brighton Operate from P7 ( I may well be wrong as last time I went to Gatwick I think 5&6 were closed so that’s probably why) but other south coast bound trains operate from P7 where many connecting Redhill line passengers would go for other trains to a more diverse array of destinations

Isn't Platform 2 very narrow? Maybe its another one but I can't recall, I think I got a thameslink north bound to Redhill in march from there so its not great that its not going to be widened of at least the brick entity in the middle demolished


Edit: I’ve checked on Southerns Departure boards as I think it is one of the most useful departure tools and Most of the departures to the south are from PLT 7

Currently platforms 5 & 6 at Gatwick are closed for rebuilding hence everything goes from 7 - that will change when fully rebuilt.

Both platforms 1 and 2 are very narrow in places. Obviously not included in scheme to save money but no help to local Thameslink passengers who mostly use these platforms and are forced to change at Gatwick for South Coast services.

 

[WizCastro197]

The Horsham-Redhill Shuttle has returned. Presumably to help these areas get a few services with Signalling fault on the Mid-Sussex Line and also for the Failure of electricity supply earlier today

 

[Minstral25]

The Horsham-Redhill Shuttle has returned. Presumably to help these areas get a few services with Signalling fault on the Mid-Sussex Line and also for the Failure of electricity supply earlier today

Try getting from say East Croydon on 4/8 and 1 12 car trains carrying all the Purley & Redhill route passengers where they are missing 2 12-car trains per half hour - gonna be cosy

 

[WizCastro197]

Try getting from say East Croydon on 4/8 and 1 12 car trains carrying all the Purley & Redhill route passengers where they are missing 2 12-car trains per half hour - gonna be cosyView attachment 119315View attachment 119315

How are the Reigate/Three Bridges formed of 4 coaches? They don't look too busy but I don't know the accuracy of these capacity indicators as the trains I do travel on don't show it?
Good luck to anyone stuck out there!

 

[Minstral25]

How are the Reigate/Three Bridges formed of 4 coaches?
Good luck to anyone stuck out there!

Guess half the train missing - hopefully an error in reporting to give people more chance of getting on

 

[WizCastro197]

Guess half the train missing - hopefully an error in reporting to give people more chance of getting on

Yeah. I think this happens quite a lot, sometimes it lists Reigate only trains as having 8 coaches despite the platform not having the capacity for it. I always assumed either it was a mistake as you mentioned or it splits at Redhill leaving 4 cars to form a service after making a quick ECS to Reigate. Or Splitting and it goes to some random destination to start a completely different service there

How would one get to Horsham from ECR? I know that there is The Mole Valley line but does southern still extend services from Dorking to Horsham?
Oh I forgot about those Portsmouths/Southamptons But those ones are already busy before reaching ECR.

Almost all Trains at ECR are either Late or Cancelled to "maintain customer connections"

Presumably Passengers that 18:07 with Standing Only room would file onto the 18:26 creating a full service.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Guess half the train missing - hopefully an error in reporting to give people more chance of getting on

They've installed a new computer system that is incapable of keeping track of the train lengths

 

[bramling]

Absolute shambles. I think everyone would like to switch back to a reliable Peterborough to Kings Cross service and then walk to St Pancras if necessary.

Yes the problem, rather predictably, is that Peterborough-Horsham is simply melting away into nothing when there’s problems. The way things have been arranged means this is also then crucifying the Cambridge services in consequence, not that Cambridge-Brighton is particularly reliable either, this disappears at the very faintest whiff of problems.

A member of my household has to travel to a funeral tomorrow. Ordinarily he’d have taken the train, but a discussion earlier this evening was quite clear - don’t do it, the service is too unreliable and even if you manage to get there you probably won’t get home. Car wins out once again, and my Shell shares get propped up.

 

[WizCastro197]

They've installed a new computer system that is incapable of keeping track of the train lengths

Yes But still
How is a train that splits in two only formed of 4 coaches?

EDIT: Extremely sorry I misread this as Capable not incapable!

 

[43066]

LU were doing ticket acceptance in lieu of the TL core earlier, just in case that helps anyone.

 

[XIX7007177]

Yes the problem, rather predictably, is that Peterborough-Horsham is simply melting away into nothing when there’s problems. The way things have been arranged means this is also then crucifying the Cambridge services in consequence, not that Cambridge-Brighton is particularly reliable either, this disappears at the very faintest whiff of problems.

A member of my household has to travel to a funeral tomorrow. Ordinarily he’d have taken the train, but a discussion earlier this evening was quite clear - don’t to it, the service is too unreliable and even if you manage to get there you probably won’t get home. Car wins out once again.

Having an hourly stopper going Peterborough to kings cross would offer some resilience for issues through the core. Drop Horsham to one an hour.

 

[bramling]

Having an hourly stopper going Peterborough to kings cross would offer some resilience for issues through the core. Drop Horsham to one an hour.

I’ve always been of the view that half the Horsham service should go to King’s Cross (and preferably be formed from something other than 700s, but that’s a separate issue). Reduce the chance of disruption through not being affected by any issue between Belle Isle and Horsham), and easier to recover when something does go wrong.

At present this service is simply unusable.

 

[XIX7007177]

I’ve always been of the view that half the Horsham service should go to King’s Cross (and preferably be formed from something other than 700s, but that’s a separate issue). Reduce the chance of disruption through not being affected by any issue between Belle Isle and Horsham), and easier to recover when something does go wrong.

At present this service is simply unusable.

Agreed.

 

[43074]

I’ve always been of the view that half the Horsham service should go to King’s Cross (and preferably be formed from something other than 700s, but that’s a separate issue). Reduce the chance of disruption through not being affected by any issue between Belle Isle and Horsham), and easier to recover when something does go wrong.

At present this service is simply unusable.

There simply isn't the platform capacity at Kings Cross for that. The solution is to have sufficient traincrew with sufficient route knowledge both sides of and through the core to cover the service reliably. But a drive on getting the basics right costs money which no one is prepared to pay for in the current climate. Infrastructure wise I suspect managed decline and cost savings are already biting to be brutally honest.

 

[XIX7007177]

There simply isn't the platform capacity at Kings Cross for that. The solution is to have sufficient traincrew with sufficient route knowledge both sides of and through the core to cover the service reliably. But a drive on getting the basics right costs money which no one is prepared to pay for in the current climate. Infrastructure wise I suspect managed decline and cost savings are already biting to be brutally honest.

One train extra an hour isn’t going to break capacity. Drop a Cambridge stopper or flyer if needs be. Cambrige to London has 8 an hour vs 2 from Peterborough. That 2 rapidly becomes 0 at the slightest bit of trouble through the core.

 

[43074]

One train extra an hour isn’t going to break capacity. Drop a Cambridge stopper or flyer if needs be. Cambrige to London has 8 an hour vs 2 from Peterborough. That 2 rapidly becomes 0 at the slightest bit of trouble through the core.

It would, LNER unit diagramming is less efficient than the pre May 18 situation with more services which can only be run by bi-mode stock and a more diverse mix of 5-, 9- and 10-car stock (bear in mind they have 72 trains in the fleet now to run a timetable run by 45 before the 80x stock was introduced). Throw Lumo into the mix alongside that and the loss of a platform in the suburban side and it would soak up any contingency which may exist in a heartbeat. Sure Control divert trains in there when there's disruption, but even that is not necessarily an option every hour all day.

The fliers are busy and often revenue generative trains in their own right, whilst dropping a stopper is not a long term solution.

 

[bramling]

It would, LNER unit diagramming is less efficient than the pre May 18 situation with more services which can only be run by bi-mode stock and a more diverse mix of 5-, 9- and 10-car stock

Perhaps this is something LNER’s predecessors and the DFT should have considered before they procured such a diverse fleet?

I agree the Cambridge services shouldn’t suffer, but I don’t consider inefficiency in LNER timetabling is a good enough reason to deny Peterborough a reliable GN service.

It seems like numerous poor DFT-led decisions are now coming home to roost, sadly.

 

[mlb54]

Well something needs to happen, this abysmal situation can’t be left to carry on. As others have said, 2 trains an hour (if there are no cancellations) quickly reduces to nothing. Thameslink can generally get you to work in the morning, there’s no guarantee they will get you home.

 

[Twotwo]

There simply isn't the platform capacity at Kings Cross for that. The solution is to have sufficient traincrew with sufficient route knowledge both sides of and through the core to cover the service reliably. But a drive on getting the basics right costs money which no one is prepared to pay for in the current climate. Infrastructure wise I suspect managed decline and cost savings are already biting to be brutally honest.

I agree about providing sufficient route knowledge. Some thameslink drivers don't sign as far as Finsbury and sometimes it takes 3 drivers to work one train because they are diagrrammed to keep changing trains so obv when theres disruption and someone is supposed to relieve you but they cant because they are stuck on a train behind you as your blocking the platform. Whereas elsewhere a driver would stay on a train until its their pnb/break then drive another unit and stay on it until their done.

 

[43074]

Perhaps this is something LNER’s predecessors and the DFT should have considered before they procured such a diverse fleet?

I agree the Cambridge services shouldn’t suffer, but I don’t consider inefficiency in LNER timetabling is a good enough reason to deny Peterborough a reliable GN service.

It seems like numerous poor DFT-led decisions are now coming home to roost, sadly.

Yes that would be fair, and of course a delay through Woolmer Green now affects the Harrogate line etc which is a needless added layer of complexity compared to running more Northern services to connect at Leeds.

The traincrew strategy is largely GTR led, but of course costs money to change which comes from DfT...

 

[Peregrine 4903]

There is simply no spare Platform Capacity at London Kings Cross for any 12 car Class 700's to be diverted into London Kings Cross permanently. And that's not the DfT's fault, there simply are just too many trains and not enough platforms, and it will get even more tight when the ECML timetable change eventually goes ahead.

 

[Watershed]

There is simply no spare Platform Capacity at London Kings Cross for any 12 car Class 700's to be diverted into London Kings Cross permanently. And that's not the DfT's fault, there simply are just too many trains and not enough platforms, and it will get even more tight when the ECML timetable change eventually goes ahead.

I always thought it was crazy to close platform 11 as part of the Kings Cross works. The performance benefits were surely outweighed by the loss of flexibility.