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Avanti West Coast cancellations

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Huntergreed

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So my booked service (the 16:56) was cancelled.

I’m now on the 16:23 voyager via Birmingham. Not ideal, but it’s quiet and I have a table so can’t complain too much (although my connection to Dumfries is much tighter than ideal!)
 
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sonic2009

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So my booked service (the 16:56) was cancelled.

I’m now on the 16:23 voyager via Birmingham. Not ideal, but it’s quiet and I have a table so can’t complain too much (although my connection to Dumfries is much tighter than ideal!)

1709 would of been ideal for you instead - arrives into Carlisle at 2048, agree with you on the tight connection at Carlisle on your service!
 

Huntergreed

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1709 would of been ideal for you instead - arrives into Carlisle at 2048, agree with you on the tight connection at Carlisle on your service!
My logic was 1709 is 10 mins faster but likely rammed, this one is quiet and we have a table to ourselves to can’t complain too much!!
 

sonic2009

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My logic was 1709 is 10 mins faster but likely rammed, this one is quiet and we have a table to ourselves to can’t complain too much!!

I do prefer the Voyager's with the tables. I see that if you miss the connection, it's a 2 hour wait for the next one!
 

greeny11

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The 17:09 is now also making extra stops in Tamworth and Lichfield, so likely to arrive a fair bit later than 20:48.
 

Huntergreed

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I do prefer the Voyager's with the tables. I see that if you miss the connection, it's a 2 hour wait for the next one!
Indeed - but as it’s what I was told to do by Avanti staff, that will be a rather nice 2 hour delay repay claim :D

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The 17:09 is now also making extra stops in Tamworth and Lichfield, so likely to arrive a fair bit later than 20:48.
How much time will that likely cost? Quite a bit I’m guessing now it will have to cross over, make both stops, and use the slow line between the two!
 

Peter0124

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According to RTT, the 18.30 from Euston to Glasgow has a 9 car unit allocated but comes off 9M55 from Edinburgh at 18.41?!?

Also for the 19.30 it's allocated to come off 1A56 from Manchester at 19.20, which will likely be a late start leaving Mcr.

Any reason why the units that are being allocated will likely arrive into Euston later than departure time? Why can't they use units that are atleast about 20-25 minutes before departure.

If RTT allocations are correct and they use those units then the 18.30 and 19.30 will likely be late starts.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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So to Brum today - family business so short term plan.

At Euston - 1010 Glasgow left full and standing , and folk left behind asked to go to the concourse.

My plan was for the 1023 which to my horror was a slow Edinburgh via the West Midlands - luckily it was a 11 car 390 ,reversed - which left with the standard very , very busy and almost full in "proper" 1st - a tedious journey calling Watford , MK and Rugby etc - getting fuller , and glad to get off at New St. Felt really sorry for the USA groups on there facing that trek to see "Nessie" (yes - that is what some of them were planning on !) Good luck.

So business done and went for the 1410 off Brum (fearing the worst) - yes - cancelled - so a normal 6 trains in 2 hours reduced to 1. Heaven knows what the 1510 would have been like. Options were for a via Northampton journey but chose the scenic 1404 XC to Reading which was a busy 8 car - change at Reading (some late running on the GW but plenty of trains) and via Crossrail to find some late running on TLK but settled for a semi/fast and home.

OK for me with savvy and free travel , but just a bit challenging for the many people out there travelling.
 

greeny11

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Looking at the Avanti alerts, it says the 1830 is delayed due to an earlier train fault. I'm guessing the 18.30 was originally due to be worked by the incoming 1A46 from Manchester, due to arrive at 1723, which got cancelled at Stafford due to a fault with the train.

Perhaps what's now working the 1830 train was due to be working the 1930 Glasgow train, and they've had to switch things around depending on what units need to be where this evening.
 

Huntergreed

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I’m still on the 16:23 via Birmingham service. It’s been declassified as it’s so busy (the 15:23 was terminated short at Wolverhampton due to no driver) and I feel I’m just waiting on the “we’re terminating short at Preston” announcement coming.

Young lady next to me has phoned her parents and said “next time I’ll use the coach”. This is an extremely serious situation for not only Avanti, but cross-border (and intercity) rail in general, and it very much angers me it’s not being treated as such.
 
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1S68 arrived 28 late into GLC due to a medical issue at Oxenholme, but smart work by the on board crew turned the unit round in 14 mins means that my daughter’s train, 1M18 left only 2 mins late at 1842. Plenty of goodwill there!
 

flixtonman

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How does the Avanti pay structure operate? If Avanti reduce the frequency of their services (e.g. from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, and in the reverse direction) from three trains per hour to one train per hour, do the train staff suffer a reduction in salary?
 

Triumph

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According to RTT, the 18.30 from Euston to Glasgow has a 9 car unit allocated but comes off 9M55 from Edinburgh at 18.41?!?

Also for the 19.30 it's allocated to come off 1A56 from Manchester at 19.20, which will likely be a late start leaving Mcr.

Any reason why the units that are being allocated will likely arrive into Euston later than departure time? Why can't they use units that are atleast about 20-25 minutes before departure.

If RTT allocations are correct and they use those units then the 18.30 and 19.30 will likely be late starts.
Stepping up at Euston as 4 sets short, due to no drivers to bring the sets back in from Wembley. 7 sets not used during the day can't all stay in Euston even with a reduced service.
 

Andy Pacer

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How does the Avanti pay structure operate? If Avanti reduce the frequency of their services (e.g. from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, and in the reverse direction) from three trains per hour to one train per hour, do the train staff suffer a reduction in salary?
I wouldn't have thought so, they would just need less staff.
 

AndrewE

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How does the Avanti pay structure operate? If Avanti reduce the frequency of their services (e.g. from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, and in the reverse direction) from three trains per hour to one train per hour, do the train staff suffer a reduction in salary?
Why on earth should they? They will work their shifts but will suffer the public contact and grief from people who have been let down.

Much more to the point, will the management (and directors and shareholders - and civil servants driving this chaos) suffer at all, or just continue to get their bonuses and gongs "for public service in difficult circumstances?"
 

43066

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1S68 arrived 28 late into GLC due to a medical issue at Oxenholme, but smart work by the on board crew turned the unit round in 14 mins means that my daughter’s train, 1M18 left only 2 mins late at 1842. Plenty of goodwill there!

Good for them! It’s amazing how quickly trains can be “spun”. The staff will no doubt be having a terrible time of it with all the disruption and will want to get through their working day as quickly and easily as possible.

How does the Avanti pay structure operate? If Avanti reduce the frequency of their services (e.g. from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston, and in the reverse direction) from three trains per hour to one train per hour, do the train staff suffer a reduction in salary?

Operational staff aren’t self employed, or employed on zero hours contracts, so no. They will be paid for the time they spend at work, just the same as most salaried employees.

A reduced timetable might well mean less overtime being available, of course.
 

modernrail

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Just booked a last minute trip London to York with LNER. A website that works and more importantly a product to offer.

Good availability of standard throughout the day. Like a different planet to every single Avanti experience I have had for the last couple of months. They even seem to be pricing early trains as off-peak (8am departure from KX) which is a bit confusing but very welcome.

As LNER is run under direct contract I assume DfT is happy with what is going on and not interfering with what it doesn’t understand as it is with Avanti and others in its current ridiculous fashion. The absence of worst group also seems to be beneficial.

Bearing in mind the similarity of the operation, the ability to help each other with disruptions, and the urgent need to sort this nonsense out, there seems to be a rather obvious way forward.

Perhaps LNER management would be able to have rather more sensible discussions with the powers that be.
 

Agent_Squash

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According to RTT, the 18.30 from Euston to Glasgow has a 9 car unit allocated but comes off 9M55 from Edinburgh at 18.41?!?

Also for the 19.30 it's allocated to come off 1A56 from Manchester at 19.20, which will likely be a late start leaving Mcr.

Any reason why the units that are being allocated will likely arrive into Euston later than departure time? Why can't they use units that are atleast about 20-25 minutes before departure.

If RTT allocations are correct and they use those units then the 18.30 and 19.30 will likely be late starts.

On the 1930 mentioned here - was quite (pleasantly) surprised that the 9 car turned into a 11 coach refurb!

Only a TM and driver - no catering at all. Departure was 30L from Euston, and to be honest there might as well not be a timetable with the state of Euston this evening.

TM doing a great job, SP surprisingly empty but Standard looked packed. Lets hope this isn't the new normal.
 

Peter0124

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On the 1930 mentioned here - was quite (pleasantly) surprised that the 9 car turned into a 11 coach refurb!

Only a TM and driver - no catering at all. Departure was 30L from Euston, and to be honest there might as well not be a timetable with the state of Euston this evening.

TM doing a great job, SP surprisingly empty but Standard looked packed. Lets hope this isn't the new normal.
The 1930 was booked an 11 car from the beginning haha! Though I suppose a late service with delay repay is miles better than a cancellation.

@Huntergreed hope they hold the Dumfries train for you!!
 

Agent_Squash

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The 1930 was booked an 11 car from the beginning haha! Though I suppose a late service with delay repay is miles better than a cancellation.

@Huntergreed hope they hold the Dumfries train for you!!

Was showing as 390013 this morning! Was very fortunate the service was delayed - the signal failure on the SWML would've meant I'd have missed it otherwise.
 

greeny11

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1S68 arrived 28 late into GLC due to a medical issue at Oxenholme, but smart work by the on board crew turned the unit round in 14 mins means that my daughter’s train, 1M18 left only 2 mins late at 1842. Plenty of goodwill there!

Avanti crew, in my experience, are excellent and will do anything to reduce delays where they can. Another instance I've spotted this evening at Lime Street - 1F23 arrived 40 minutes late, then left as 1A73 after a 6 minute turnaround! It will have been helped that passengers can get straight on at Lime Street as no ticket checks, and I'm guessing a fairly quiet train, but still impressive to be ready for departure just 6 minutes after arrival.
 

Andy Pacer

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Potentially more fun and games with the ECML being closed this evening after a fatality at Sandy, and Avanti is one of the options for displaced passengers...
 

Clarence Yard

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As LNER is run under direct contract I assume DfT is happy with what is going on and not interfering with what it doesn’t understand as it is with Avanti and others in its current ridiculous fashion. The absence of worst group also seems to be beneficial.

Bearing in mind the similarity of the operation, the ability to help each other with disruptions, and the urgent need to sort this nonsense out, there seems to be a rather obvious way forward.

Perhaps LNER management would be able to have rather more sensible discussions with the powers that be.

It has nothing to do with it being an OLR or not. It’s all to do with the resource levels that existed in March 2020 and what has happened to them since, coupled with the cost controls that now apply to all DfT TOCs.

If you had enough drivers and conductors and still do, like LNER or GWR, you are in a good place. If you haven’t, you are in trouble because getting the money required to fix it (and in good time) is an issue.
 

modernrail

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It has nothing to do with it being an OLR or not. It’s all to do with the resource levels that existed in March 2020 and what has happened to them since, coupled with the cost controls that now apply to all DfT TOCs.

If you had enough drivers and conductors and still do, like LNER or GWR, you are in a good place. If you haven’t, you are in trouble because getting the money required to fix it (and in good time) is an issue.
I massively bow to your knowledge on this stuff Clarence Yard but a bit of friendly challenge on that one.

I think this is to do with LNER being an OLR for 2 reasons:

1. An accident of timing - because it means LNER avoided the switchover of contracting at a critical moment which included that classic problem with the whole contracting method where Virgin were not heavily penalised for not having enough drivers when their time came to an end/Avanti were not put under enough scrutiny in terms of how many drivers they took on.

2. Because LNER has been left to its own devices more because it is being viewed as a more competent management team.

However, if you are right, this really is damning for the DfT and Treasury. There is no way the finances at Avanti are looking better than those at LNER, and the contradiction in their public carping about wanting modernised working practices mixed with their actually contracting the opposite is too much to stomach.

I really hope people who voted for this Government think their blessed Brexit has been worth it, they really are seriously incompetent and just not serious people, at a very serious time.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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If you had enough drivers and conductors and still do, like LNER or GWR, you are in a good place. If you haven’t, you are in trouble because getting the money required to fix it (and in good time) is an issue.
And wasn't LNER staffed up for extra services that have yet to materialize (with the delay in the new ECML timetable)?
Avanti also face the need for extra training for 805/7 trains coming soon.
 
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