Avanti West Coast cancellations

[Wyrleybart]

It is not a strike, other than on the actual strike days obviously.

That is not correct though. Because crew and stock may well be out of balance at the start of the next.
If you have two units short at XX and two units over at YY then two trains from XX will be either cancelled or shortformed. Similar applies to crew.

This is why there have been problems with RMT strikes involving signalling staff. If signalling is covered by management on an 0700-1900 basis then there are no signallers booking on until 0500 or 0600 the next morning. Therefore the first trains off your depots will be after the signalling centres have opened on the early turn after strike day. That may be 0630 or 0700ish - means morning peak is damaged etc etc

 

[Sheridan]

Just to be clear, are we talking about more than one reservation having been issued for the same seat for the same train AND between the same two stations?

In my (admittedly limited) experience, folk attempting to (incorrectly) claim/occupy a reserved seat have either been on the wrong train, (in your example have boarded the 1022 from Warrington to Euston but actually had a reservation for the 1120) or are on the right train but in the wrong carriage.

Yep, it was widespread throughout the carriage and we all compared tickets/reservations. The reservations had definitely been issued twice for the same seats.

 

[Falcon1200]

We paid £58 for 3 one-way tickets (our return flight is back into London), with 2x 16-25 railcards and 1 child fare; this train was supposed to be direct into Glasgow, leaving shortly before midday, and take just over 4 hours.

Glad you managed to get your journey sorted out, and hope it goes well, but I don't know what train Avanti can have booked you on; The Euston-Glasgow direct trains do not call at Milton Keynes, and the Euston-Glasgow via Birmingham service has not run since Covid ?

 

[43066]

Declassifying first class is a sure way to lose passengers IMHO. I often choose train because the first class compartments are normally quiet enough to work and have enough table and power sockets for that purpose. In my experience of declassifying, it turns the same compartments into loud and uncomfortable travel. If travelling between London and Scotland, what possible value does the train offer if they insist on declassifying?

If it’s so busy that it makes the difference between people being left behind (and possibly stranded) or being able to travel it’s the least worst option. First class passengers can get a refund of the first class portion of their fare as I understand it??

There's a multitude of elements, but blame certain lies more with the DfT who seem to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Understanding only the short-term costs and not the medium/long-term benefit of resolving the staffing issues. There have also been some unavoidable delays such as driver training and recruitment bottlenecks.

For the 1000th time, ASLEF are more than happy to have Sundays within the working week, but if it becomes officially part of the roster, than means an increase in driver establishement and probably a pay increase as well. Therefore more costs, but the DfT want to have their cake and eat it. So yes, it is a contradiction.

You have a vast majority of drivers refusing to do RDW which may or may not be co-ordinated and, although it might be somewhat underhand, as far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong/illegal with saying you're not available to come in on your day off. Most TOCs and rostering / resourcing staff have a general idea of what % of their staff will always do overtime and what % might do it at a push. Suffice to say those %s have probably gone to near zero at Avanti.

Well said.

Not sure why the second two paragraphs in particular are so difficult for certain people on here to accept!

 

[TheEdge]

Not sure why the second two paragraphs in particular are so difficult for certain people on here to accept!

Because unions and those greedy lazy union members are the source of all evil and always in the wrong...

 

[JamieL]

If it’s so busy that it makes the difference between people being left behind (and possibly stranded) or being able to travel it’s the least worst option. First class passengers can get a refund of the first class portion of their fare as I understand it??

I don't disagree with the first point you make but think they need to be clearer. I challenge you to go to the Avanti West Coast First Class webpage and find any mention of declassification or any mention that all the services they state may be arbitrarily be withdrawn as frequently as 10% of the time:

First Class | Avanti West Coast

Book First Class and you'll get to enjoy our First Class station lounges, complimentary food and drinks service, and seating upgrades.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

On your second point, normally Avanti runs so late most journeys end up being partially or wholly refunded via delay repay. Both declassified journeys suffered by myself were free. But that really isn't the point - it was the loss of work time that, had it been known before I boarded, would have prompted me to use alternative transport or delay travel.

Anyway, my separate post to discuss the pros and cons was deleted so I am guessing it is outwith the forum rules to discuss this topic.

 

[43066]

I don't disagree with the first point you make but think they need to be clearer. I challenge you to go to the Avanti West Coast First Class webpage and find any mention of declassification or any mention that all the services they state may be arbitrarily be withdrawn as frequently as 10% of the time:

It’s contemplated by the NRCoC, para 15.6 of which provides:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National%20Rail%20Conditions%20of%20Travel.pdf

If you hold a first class Ticket and the first class accommodation on your train service has been declassified or you are unable to sit in it for all or part of your journey because it is full, you will be entitled to a refund as set out in Condition 31.

It probably could be made clearer to be fair. I suppose the possibility of that happening isn’t something they want to highlight too much!

On your second point, normally Avanti runs so late most journeys end up being partially or wholly refunded via delay repay. Both declassified journeys suffered by myself were free. But that really isn't the point - it was the loss of work time that, had it been known before I boarded, would have prompted me to use alternative transport or delay travel.

Anyway, my separate post to discuss the pros and cons was deleted so I am guessing it is outwith the forum rules to discuss this topic.

Yes indeed. The hope is that the TOC gets back to some level of normality soon. That will require the DfT to change their approach somewhat.

 

[mmh]

I do too - there doesn't seem to have been any reduction to trains worked by Preston crews.

I would also remove the Edinburghs north of Wolverhampton. Edinburgh can be reached via Glasgow, and those wanting to go from Brum to Preston in the empty hour can take the Liverpool or the Crewe and change there onto the Glasgow.

That sounds remarkably entitled. "Somebody else can go a different way." Are any of these going to stop at Milton Keynes?

 

[gazzaa2]

I don't disagree with the first point you make but think they need to be clearer. I challenge you to go to the Avanti West Coast First Class webpage and find any mention of declassification or any mention that all the services they state may be arbitrarily be withdrawn as frequently as 10% of the time:

First Class | Avanti West Coast

Book First Class and you'll get to enjoy our First Class station lounges, complimentary food and drinks service, and seating upgrades.

www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk

On your second point, normally Avanti runs so late most journeys end up being partially or wholly refunded via delay repay. Both declassified journeys suffered by myself were free. But that really isn't the point - it was the loss of work time that, had it been known before I boarded, would have prompted me to use alternative transport or delay travel.

Anyway, my separate post to discuss the pros and cons was deleted so I am guessing it is outwith the forum rules to discuss this topic.

If cancellations/reduced service etc cause a very busy train (i.e. standing in carriages and vestibules with no available seats) they should declassify standard premium. Declassifying first class should then be a last resort if the train is completely crush loaded.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That sounds remarkably entitled. "Somebody else can go a different way."

Entitled? It's just about viability.

Are any of these going to stop at Milton Keynes?

The Brum and the Manc I think.

 

[Huntergreed]

It looks like even this emergency timetable is too much for Avanti!

16 cancellations listed today so far, and 2 starting/finishing short at Preston.

 

[32475]

Help! I have an Advance Single for the 12.30 from London Euston to Glasgow Central this coming Wednesday 17th August. I have now read that this train has been removed from the timetable but have no advice on whether I can use the same ticket on any earlier or later train.
Can anyone advise?

 

[Huntergreed]

Help! I have an Advance Single for the 12.30 from London Euston to Glasgow Central this coming Wednesday 17th August. I have now read that this train has been removed from the timetable but have no advice on whether I can use the same ticket on any earlier or later train.
Can anyone advise?

It’s been retimed to 12:10 (I imagine your reservation will have carried over).

If you are unable to catch this, you can also get the 13:10.

 

[32475]

It’s been retimed to 12:10 (I imagine your reservation will have carried over).

If you are unable to catch this, you can also get the 13:10.

Many thanks for your very prompt advice. If only the Trainline or Avanti information was that helpful!

 

[FManc]

It looks like even this emergency timetable is too much for Avanti!

16 cancellations listed today so far, and 2 starting/finishing short at Preston.

Seems mostly to be on the Liverpool/Anglo-Scot route which have seen the least impact in terms of frequency reduction.

 

[Falcon1200]

At Glasgow Central today, the only cancellation so far is 1M05 0533. However some other services do not have a set allocated, which going on past experience may well indicate further cancellations. And, of course, there are quite a few 9-cars shown on those trains which do have sets allocated !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems mostly to be on the Liverpool/Anglo-Scot route which have seen the least impact in terms of frequency reduction.

Well, there's the surprise, and it backs up what I said above. They can't even organise cuts properly. Shocking.

 

[Peter0124]

Could they perhaps 1tp2h the Liverpool/Glasgow routes if the current timetable is still leading to Cancellations due to staffing?

 

[Huntergreed]

Could they perhaps 1tp2h the Liverpool/Glasgow routes if the current timetable is still leading to Cancellations due to staffing?

A sad but probably sensible idea for the time being.

I would accept it on the caveat that all services on these routes were 11 car pendolinos, which wouldn’t happen of course.

 

[station_road]

Many thanks for your very prompt advice. If only the Trainline or Avanti information was that helpful!

The advice on the Avanti website seems clear
https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/travel-information/plan-your-journey/timetables

If you’ve already booked to travel with us from 14 August onwards and your train is cancelled, your ticket will be accepted on the Avanti West Coast service before or after your original booked train. Alternatively, you can claim a full, fee-free refund from your point of purchase if you no longer wish to travel due to the amended timetable.

 

[Peter0124]

-

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could they perhaps 1tp2h the Liverpool/Glasgow routes if the current timetable is still leading to Cancellations due to staffing?

I don't know if Liverpool is fully interworked with Manchester? If it is or it can be then there is probably no need.

For Scotland they need to terminate the Edinburghs at Wolverhampton, so 0.5tph Brum to Preston then only the Euston-Glasgow north of that, calling at all stations.

 

[Peter0124]

I don't know if Liverpool is fully interworked with Manchester? If it is or it can be then there is probably no need.

For Scotland they need to terminate the Edinburghs at Wolverhampton, so 0.5tph Brum to Preston then only the Euston-Glasgow north of that, calling at all stations.

I suppose they could do that, and try sending the 9 car units on the Birmingham route as I presume it would be the least busy of the 4 due to having Chiltern and LNWR?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose they could do that, and try sending the 9 car units on the Birmingham route as I presume it would be the least busy of the 4 due to having Chiltern and LNWR?

And due to not going north of Preston. I suspect so yes.

 

[Falcon1200]

Could they perhaps 1tp2h the Liverpool/Glasgow routes if the current timetable is still leading to Cancellations due to staffing?

Given that Glasgow has already lost nearly all its XC services, its two-hourly Euston via Birmingham service, many of its TPE (on an unplanned but daily basis) services, and has precisely one LNER service per day..... Absolutely not ! Unless the railway really wants to destroy cross-Border traffic from Glasgow completely.

 

[Watershed]

I don't know if Liverpool is fully interworked with Manchester? If it is or it can be then there is probably no need.

For Scotland they need to terminate the Edinburghs at Wolverhampton, so 0.5tph Brum to Preston then only the Euston-Glasgow north of that, calling at all stations.

The platforming at Euston essentially allows sets to interwork on an 'as required' basis.

At least some Edinburgh services would have to remain to retain route knowledge. It's difficult to see how it could sensibly be reduced much further.

I think realistically speaking, removing a few Glasgow and Liverpool services - in such a way to maximise crew savings - is really what's needed. Of course it would be very difficult politically, since it didn't happen even during the deepest depths of lockdown.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

All routes seem to be affected today, Birmingham the least. The limited North Wales Voyager shuttle even has cancellations.
Edinburgh, by the way, is more important than Glasgow these days, especially in August.
What you can't see on the Avanti site of course, is how the parallel TPE services are running north of Preston.

 

[Watershed]

Given that Glasgow has already lost nearly all its XC services, its two-hourly Euston via Birmingham service, many of its TPE (on an unplanned but daily basis) services, and has precisely one LNER service per day..... Absolutely not ! Unless the railway really wants to destroy cross-Border traffic from Glasgow completely.

The railway has already done plenty to destroy cross border traffic. Reducing the timetable to reflect what can actually be resourced is an unfortunate but necessary step.

 

[Peter0124]

It is really sad, and I still don't understand what's happening with Avanti staffing. Maybe LNER could temporarily extend some of the fast services to Glasgow if the timetable does end up getting reduced further?

 

[duncanp]

The railway has already done plenty to destroy cross border traffic. Reducing the timetable to reflect what can actually be resourced is an unfortunate but necessary step.

Yes, starting the 06:15 from Birmingham New Street to Edinburgh at Wolverhampton and terminating it at, er, Preston, doesn't excatly help people trying to get to Edinburgh at one of the busiest times of year.

The Cross Country service from Birmingham to Edinburgh via the East Coast main line takes more than an hour longer than the Avanti service, but at the moment if I was travelling from Birmingham to Edinburgh I would use Cross Country.