How cold should aircon be set on public transport?

[dosxuk]

I suspect the people arguing for ice cold trains are those who primarily use them at peak times and for short journeys, while those arguing for cool-but-not-cold are those using lighter loaded services and for longer journeys.

I can absolutely see getting on a packed peak service for a 20 minute ride being glorious with a properly working aircon keeping it to 15 degrees cooler than outside, but at the same time, that same temperature would be complete misery if you're on a 4 hour journey with a specific seat and dressed for the weather.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, perception can be deceptive especially on a really hot day, however I can't speak for the OP, who I've quoted again here for info, that would need the OP to make further comment. What I would say though, is that I have experienced 18 degrees (as measured), when it's nearer to 30 outside. This really is unreasonably cold to be sitting still for a couple of hours, especially if you happen to be in a seat where you can feel the cold air blowing on to you, and when you don't have anything warmer than a t-shirt and shorts with you.

That's incredibly, incredibly rare and is likely to be a fault. As I said 20 or 21 degrees is the normal setting.

 

[najaB]

Some of us prefer moving air. The fix to that is personal vents as per planes so you can choose, but it's cost and another thing to break.

And not just a small cost - it needs significantly more ductwork. It's a big part of why they've been removed from a lot of planes.

 

[MikeWM]

I can absolutely see getting on a packed peak service for a 20 minute ride being glorious with a properly working aircon keeping it to 15 degrees cooler than outside, but at the same time, that same temperature would be complete misery if you're on a 4 hour journey with a specific seat and dressed for the weather.

But the same applies in winter too - you don't expect to wear the same clothes inside as outside then. If trains were running around at 0C inside when it was below-freezing outside people would, quite reasonably, moan.

If it is significantly colder *or* warmer outside than 'room temperature', you need to be prepared to adjust your clothing when moving between the two if you want to remain comfortable.

 

[westv]

Some of us prefer moving air. The fix to that is personal vents as per planes so you can choose, but it's cost and another thing to break. I've only ever seen them on some Southeastern Networker EMUs.

But normally how long do you spend under a blast of air on a train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But normally how long do you spend under a blast of air on a train?

Er, however long my journey is?

When I fly, I turn the vent on and point it at myself for the duration of the flight.

 

[westv]

Er, however long my journey is?

When I fly, I turn the vent on and point it at myself for the duration of the flight.

I mean have you spent 20 mins uner a blast, 1 hour or the longer times some people have mentioned?
I've no idea if I'm right but I'd imagine a train air con unit blower is more powerful than one on an aeroplane.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I mean have you spent 20 mins uner a blast, 1 hour or the longer times some people have mentioned?

My longest flight is about 12hrs to South East Asia.

I've no idea if I'm right but I'd imagine a train air con unit blower is more powerful than one on an aeroplane.

No, aeroplane aircon is far more powerful, have you seen the size of the fans? (It's engine bleed air on most aircraft, which is why you get a gobful of fumes on engine startup)

 

[westv]

My longest flight is about 12hrs to South East Asia.

I meant train not plane.

 

[najaB]

No, aeroplane aircon is far more powerful, have you seen the size of the fans? (It's engine bleed air on most aircraft, which is why you get a gobful of fumes on engine startup)

If you get any significant amount of fumes then someone is doing something wrong. For one thing the bleed air is usually from the second-stage compressor (which is well before any fuel is injected) and, more importantly, "Bleed off" is part of the engine start checklist.

This is both to prevent smoke/fumes being drawn into the cabin in the event of a hot start and, more importantly, because bleed air represents 'stolen' energy, which is the last thing you want when you're trying to start an engine - it would be like trying to push-start a car while it's towing a trailer!

 

[Shrop]

My observation of numerous disagreements about the optimum temperature in the office over my 20+ years in the workplace is it's size (in terms of width) rather than gender which is the biggest determinate, ie larger people are more inclined to prefer a lower temperature.

This could degenerate into a valid discussion about weight, starting with the fact that you're probably right about larger people preferring a lower temperature. You might also ask why 8 stone people should have to pay as much for flights as 20 stone people, or even for train travel come to that. But however valid this might be, you'd have almost no chance of any useful discussion without upsetting the PC brigade

 

[Bletchleyite]

I meant train not plane.

The mode doesn't matter as a blast of cold air is the same wherever you experience it.

 

[800001]

I remember travelling 1st class from Paddington to Exeter last summer. After the huge disappointment on the catering provision on GWR, my main concern was the freezing temperature in the carriage . I asked for the heat to be increased, but I never noticed any improvement during the trip.

On 80x fleets only people who can alter the temperature is Hitachi.

Even then it has to go through an engineering change request via the relevant TOC, as the train is set to operate between a preset temp range.

 

[dk1]

On 80x fleets only people who can alter the temperature is Hitachi.

Even then it has to go through an engineering change request via the relevant TOC, as the train is set to operate between a preset temp range.

That’s not good. The 745/755 fleet now allows the driver to control the saloon temp.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s not good. The 745/755 fleet now allows the driver to control the saloon temp.

It's alleged that Virgin/Avanti crews used to increase the temperature on late evening services so as to get everyone to fall asleep, as air crews do.

 

[800001]

That’s not good. The 745/755 fleet now allows the driver to control the saloon temp.

Some on board crew say the same, as they get complaints it’s too hot/cold.

But then, if it’s at a pre-set temp range and air on is working correctly, by using the onboard sensory equipment it **should** function correctly.

 

[dk1]

It's alleged that Virgin/Avanti crews used to increase the temperature on late evening services so as to get everyone to fall asleep, as air crews do.

Yes especially on rowdy football trains. Apparently worked wonders lol.

 

[Bantamzen]

I've not long fallen off a 333 headed out of Leeds with the a/c absolutely blasting out cold air. Pure bliss after walking across the city centre under the furnace that is the Yorkshire sun today. Long live the ice cold a/c in this weather!

 

[800001]

Best trains for me with Air Con are the 345 Crossrail units, pure heaven on one at the moment ☀️❄️

 

[johncrossley]

The main issue is that most public transport doesn't even have air conditioning! Almost no UK buses (apart from coaches) use it, meaning that buses are unusable for large parts of this summer.

 

[Domh245]

Really they need to point up rather than down directly at passengers. I've no ides why designers didn't do this.

Because the HVAC equipment is all on the roof, so in order for it to "point up" you'd have to run ductwork down to floor level before then pointing it back up again, loosing precious carriage width - you then also lose the natural phenomenon where cooler air naturally sinks cooling all the air evenly rather than just everyone's feet!

There is probably an argument for improving the distribution and grilles so that you get a better diffused supply rather than a more stratified supply though as established this is a matter of preference, and I can't say I've ever noticed any particular issues with this on trains I've been on!

 

[Shrop]

L

The main issue is that most public transport doesn't even have air conditioning! Almost no UK buses (apart from coaches) use it, meaning that buses are unusable for large parts of this summer

Most bus passengers are only on board for 30 minutes or not much over, and with side windows open it's probably not as bad as you imagine

 

[johncrossley]

Most bus passengers are only on board for 30 minutes or not much over, and with side windows open it's probably not as bad as you imagine

Train journeys can often be as short, yet air conditioning is considered almost essential nowadays. In other countries with a similar climate, buses have been air conditioned for quite a while. I'm not likely to go by bus when I can use my air conditioned car.

 

[Magdalia]

This could degenerate into a valid discussion about weight, starting with the fact that you're probably right about larger people preferring a lower temperature. You might also ask why 8 stone people should have to pay as much for flights as 20 stone people, or even for train travel come to that. But however valid this might be, you'd have almost no chance of any useful discussion without upsetting the PC brigade

There is a significant difference between how men and women experience ambient temperature. Studies, in an office environment, suggest that the optimum ambient temperature for women is significantly higher than for men, by about 3-5C.

The main issue is that most public transport doesn't even have air conditioning! Almost no UK buses (apart from coaches) use it, meaning that buses are unusable for large parts of this summer.

One of the advantages of the Cambridge Guided Busway, with ex Busway vehicles also being cascaded onto other routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a significant difference between how men and women experience ambient temperature. Studies, in an office environment, suggest that the optimum ambient temperature for women is significantly higher than for men, by about 3-5C.

I wonder if that is because women tend to wear thinner, skimpier, less formal clothing in offices than men can get away with. I am sure if they wore a trouser suit, tie, waistcoat/jumper and jacket they'd be just as warm as the men!

 

[Magdalia]

I wonder if that is because women tend to wear thinner, skimpier, less formal clothing in offices than men can get away with. I am sure if they wore a trouser suit, tie, waistcoat/jumper and jacket they'd be just as warm as the men!

There are significant differences in both average size and average metabolic rate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are significant differences in both average size and average metabolic rate.

There are, but in my experience most men wear much more clothing in offices than most women, thus this study was probably not a fair test unless both wore the same e.g. a suit and tie. Even a tie makes a huge difference.

Of course priority should go to the person that is too hot, because the person that is too cold can wear more clothing, whereas I am not permitted to wear a vest top and shorts in the office.

 

[Shrop]

Train journeys can often be as short, yet air conditioning is considered almost essential nowadays. In other countries with a similar climate, buses have been air conditioned for quite a while. I'm not likely to go by bus when I can use my air conditioned car.

Yes train journeys can be short, but even trains that stop frequently, often do so as part of a much longer journey than buses travel. Eg. Cardiff to Penzance, or Manchester to Carmarthen to name but two.

As for comparing our climate to that in other countries, this is quite a premature comment because our present high temperatures are much more rare than in a lot of other countries, which is why buses tend not to have aircon in the UK. It might be worth thinking about providing aircon in our buses though, given the rising temperatures that we're now witnessing. And it might help to encourage people out of their cars too!

 

[johncrossley]

As for comparing our climate to that in other countries, this is quite a premature comment because our present high temperatures are much more rare than in a lot of other countries, which is why buses tend not to have aircon in the UK. It might be worth thinking about providing aircon in our buses though, given the rising temperatures that we're now witnessing. And it might help to encourage people out of their cars too!

The lack of air-conditioning on buses is just cost saving. Buses are run on a shoestring but trains are a premium product and so get all the 'bells and whistles'. Buses in the UK operate in the same climate as trains in the UK (obviously!) Other northern European countries have had air conditioning on buses for several years, including many cities with lower summer temperatures than London. Paris is an anomaly but they finally decided a few years ago to get air conditioning after yet another devastating heatwave. Some French cities north of Paris already had air-conditioned buses.

 

[westv]

Because the HVAC equipment is all on the roof, so in order for it to "point up" you'd have to run ductwork down to floor level before then pointing it back up again, loosing precious carriage width - you then also lose the natural phenomenon where cooler air naturally sinks cooling all the air evenly rather than just everyone's feet!

I don't understand.
Currently the flow of cooler air leaves the unit attached to the underneath of the roof of the carriage at an angle directed to passengers.
Presumably this angle of flow is based on the angle of the vents in the unit.
The correct angle should be to point the cooler air towards the ceiling, reduce its speed and then create a slower flow down.
I think the problem isn't necessarily the temperature per se, it's the speed of the cooling air as it hits you. A bit like if you are outside. It may be, say, 16c but 16c in a gale "feels colder" than 15c in still calm.