Is the use of cash dying out?

[PeterC]

I will pay in cash occasionally to make sure that I have a reserve of coins for car parks and public toilets. I do try and carry a emergency reserve of about £30 in notes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2022 ==

Yes apparently so. Sam Smith's pubs are a complete anachronism run by an imbecile. I won't go near them.

Some years ago he took it into his head to ban all live music in his pubs. Fair enough in the bars but I am told that this was a complete ban including private functions

 

[Ediswan]

My mother worked in a staff restaurant which went cash free in 1987. (Girovend system, effectively stored value card charged from your salary).

I recall Girovend. The system we had was loaded using cash. There was even a paper 'debtors' list if your card balance was a bit light one day. Everybody wore company ID, so no great risk.

 

[Non Multi]

No. Next question.

I will say some of the most regular posters on here are anti-cash zealots, and they repeatedly hijack every thread going that goes anywhere vaguely near the subject. It's one of the reasons I've all but abandoned this forum. They're utterly tedious and seemingly permanently divorced from the real world.

 

[Bevan Price]

Our local chip shop changed hands. The new owners only took cash. Within two weeks it was shut due to lack of custom. Someone else took over, accepted card payments, and built the business back up. Cash is dieing and taking down its supporters with it.

That might also have been due to the quality of their food. A chippy near me changed hands several years ago, and they even managed to make the chips taste awful; needless to say, they did not survive for very long.

 

[birchesgreen]

I don't understand how using cash makes budgeting easier, i've found the exact opposite.

 

[AM9]

I don't understand how using cash makes budgeting easier, i've found the exact opposite.

Quite simply because you can't spend cash that you don't have.

 

[birchesgreen]

Quite simply because you can't spend cash that you don't have.

My debit card works the same way. I don't have to worry about accumulating change or buying stuff just to get change.

 

[AlterEgo]

My debit card works the same way. I don't have to worry about accumulating change or buying stuff just to get change.

And if you’re really concerned, get Monzo, which debits immediately.

 

[birchesgreen]

And if you’re really concerned, get Monzo, which debits immediately.

I use Monzo for my transport (leisure) travel as that has an exact budget.

Anyway its what works for me, y'all do what suits you.

 

[Bald Rick]

I recall Girovend. The system we had was loaded using cash. There was even a paper 'debtors' list if your card balance was a bit light one day. Everybody wore company ID, so no great risk.

yep, I 10 years after my mum was managing a cashless system, my work canteen swapped to Girovend and a cash loading system. I was quite surprised to see that element of the system, given that a decade earlier you hadn’t needed to use cash !

 

[Falcon1200]

My debit card works the same way. I don't have to worry about accumulating change or buying stuff just to get change.

Great, as long as there is always enough money in the account to pay for everything bought !

I find the implied superiority of non-cash users over old people who prefer to use cash because they are stupid/lazy/mean disappointing, and untrue; My 92-year old Mum does like cash but is quite prepared to use contactless, as long as she gets a receipt to keep track of her spending. With cash you can only spend what is in your hand, not so with credit cards.

 

[birchesgreen]

Great, as long as there is always enough money in the account to pay for everything bought!

Well yes, same as cash surely?

Anyway i don't care if people prefer cash or whatever. I was just questioning those folks who said cash made budgeting easier, in my experience its the opposite but everyone is different and needs to find the way that works for them.

 

[Iskra]

 

[Dai Corner]

I'm down to two regular and one occasional use for cash.

The deposit on supermarket trolleys but that's not really spending money.

The jukebox in the pub. There is an app but it charges more per play.

One local taxi firm

I like being able to see exactly where I've spent my money, something cash doesn't offer without keeping receipts (if offered) or detailed records.

 

[Falcon1200]

Well yes, same as cash surely?

Easier to know how much cash is on you than how much is in your account, surely ?!!

 

[Dai Corner]

Easier to know how much cash is on you than how much is in your account, surely ?!!

Emptying your pockets, purse or wallet and counting it vs. a few taps on your smartphone. Probably not much in it but I favour the latter.

 

[DarloRich]

Cash is dying as its supporters do, bluntly. Most cash zealots are older people.

Agree - although while I think the death if cash is a way off yet covid has speeded up that decline. Corner shops were all cash pre pandemic now they tend to welcome card payments

Indeed. And there will be people who don't like this, and people who can't deal with it. The former are larger in number and rather proliferate here. The latter are quite small in number, and may actually well be cheaper to provide for by offering free travel. I don't doubt that the big move to contactless on buses wouldn't have worked anywhere near as well were it not for ENCTS and the other nations' equivalents.

Agree. it was a shock to find buses didn't take cash but it must be so much easier for everyone. In any event I seem to be subsidising the other passengers whenever I travel by bus!

The only issue I have ever had is when my contactless card wouldn't work and a stranger had to pay for me. I reimbursed them with cash!

 

[DelayRepay]

I can assure anyone who has not experienced it, except for the odd few days, that if you have ever been in the situation where you literally have to sit down with a piece of paper and your money in front of you to see what you can afford, that it is a situation you never want to return to. Using cards had the constant fear that a transaction will go awry and be processed twice or come out at a larger figure, or your card will be cancelled, or you will simply forget to make a note of a transaction (or get the sum wrong). With cash you can look at it and say, “I have £x.yz”, and know you are right. When you are living on the absolute edge, a tiny error can be a catastrophe.

I have been there too. I remember literally counting out the odd coins to work out how much food I could afford. You can do this with a bank account but it's much easier with cash. Especially if you can't pay all of your bills on time so need to prioritise certain ones, which is difficult if they're all set up as direct debits. It becomes much more difficult if one of the bills you can't pay is your phone bill, so you lose your internet access. I also remember desperately trying to avoid going overdrawn, even by a few pence, due to the spiral of bank charges this could generate.

The flip side though is that if you're in that situation, a lost wallet can also be catastrophic (yes, I've been there too and was left, literally, without a penny to my name).

I don't think cash is king any more, but it's not going away. It'll be around for a long time yet.

The more likely change in the next few years is withdrawal of 1p and 2p coins.

I am using quite a bit of cash at the moment as my mum owed me £400 which she paid in cash. She tried to do a transfer from her savings account, but had trouble with completing security with the call centre, so she got the cash out of an ATM and handed it to me. Having used my card for virtually everything for the last few years, it feels quite strange handing over cash and getting a handful of coins back as change.

 

[Magdalia]

I still stick to cash and only use card when the retailer demands it, but this is pretty rare as I don’t buy much in the way of consumer goods. With cash I know exactly where I am and don’t need to worry about a card being stopped, as happened once because of a bank error. This is despite the fact that, although my assets are now in seven figures, the bank will only me give a Debit Card with a £50 cash limit.

I keep the total of my money in my three bank accounts (with the same bank) around the FSCS guarantee of £85,000, but when it drops below £80,000 I top it up with £6-8,000 (depending on any expected costs in the near future) from another bank account. However, as my lifestyle is still pretty quiet following a period of ill-health, my outgoings are modest and so top-ups are infrequent.

I have survived all these years without a Credit Card and my life style is hardly one that makes one necessary. Anyway, my experience is that all the banks are as bad as each other and I can do without the problems that can arise when changing banks.

I operate my finances in a similar way. I grew up in the 1970s, and know what it is like to be in a family where every penny counts.

I still use cash a lot. In another discussion I mentioned people I pay to provide domestic services. All but one of these only take cash. I also use various market stalls that only take cash.

The Post Office and ATMs (I've never used one of those) are not the only source of cash. My supermarket still does cashback. But my main source of cash is my local building society branch: I have an instant access account with my local building society and withdraw cash in the branch. It is my little contribution to helping to keep the branch open for the people who need it. The debit card £50 cash limit is probably a "computer says no" thing, because people who don't use credit cards don't have credit history. I think my building society branch cash maximum is £500.

But the thing that surprises me in all of this is how the vast majority of the population are completely oblivious to the lack of resilience in complete reliance on electronic payment systems. In the 1970s energy crisis we had power cuts, if that's repeated in the current energy crisis those electronic payment systems will be stuffed. If the supply of microchips from Taiwan is curtailed, the whole system is vulnerable to collapse. And fraudsters target electronic payment: yes, cash isn't risk free, but I know that it is better to make a small mistake than a big one.

If things really get bad the money that still talks will be folding notes.

 

[ComUtoR]

I like being able to see exactly where I've spent my money, something cash doesn't offer without keeping receipts (if offered) or detailed records.

This one is a little misleading.

If you are concerned about keeping track of spending then receipts are key.

I've tried numerous apps and programs over the years and they all have their own pitfalls. In this "modern" banking era you can track spending directly from your banking app or bank website. However, the information is pretty generic; sometimes very confusing. If I look through my app I see a load of transactions but when you click each on the merchant name and even location often doesn't match where I spent the money.

I went to a pub recently and my app flashed up "Harvester" I was certainly NOT in a Harvester.

I bought some shoes a few years back and the purchase came up in Luxembourg. The bank phoned me with a concern but it was because that's were the shoe shop (retail store) runs their transactions through.

I have two transactions in my statemwnt for this week. One in Eastbourne and the other in Birmingham. I have only been outside the M25 once this week (neither of those) !

 

[DelayRepay]

UK Finance publish an an annual Payments Market Summary. The latest available was published in 2021, covering the period up to 2020. Hopefully the 2022 report will be published soon.

This graph shows that cash use has been in decline for some time, since 2012 in fact. Cards overtook cash as the main form of payment (by volume of payments) in 2017. Card payments declined in 2020, this is attributed to less spending generally due to the Covid lockdowns.



Relevant to this thread:

During 2020, there were 13.7 million consumers who used cash only once a month or not at all, instead relying on cards and other payment methods to manage their spending. This was a significant increase from 7.4 million consumers the previous year, and likely a result of the lower levels of cash use seen during the pandemic. At the same time there were 1.2 million consumers who mainly used cash, choosing this payment method when doing their day-to-day shopping (although the majority still use other payment methods to pay their regular bills). It should be noted that while these people prefer to use cash when paying for things, they are not necessarily unwilling or unable to use other methods of payment. The majority of them have a debit card. Nevertheless, there is great diversity in the way in which different people in the UK prefer to manage their finances and conduct their day-to-day spending.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Imagine being "caught short" at a bus station with a bank card that does not allow you admittance to the toilets when you most need it., as it needs a 20p coin to operate the turnstiles.

Has anyone on the thread other examples of bus station toilets similar to what is described above. Wigan and Bury are two that I can name.

Incidentally, how many coin-accepting machines of all types that are currently in use would need replacing?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Traditionally using cash was easier to budget with. But nowadays that's no longer true. It's much easier to see what you've spent your money on when using a card and you still can't spend what you haven't got. Knowing where you're spending is just as important as how much you're spending. Obviously with cash you can go through all your receipts but with a card the works already been done for you. Modern banks send you a push notification at the time, so you know the name of the retailer. If there's a name I haven't used (Harvester when I've not been in a Harvester) I'd instantly stop the transaction.
I've not used a car park that only accepts cash in a very long time, paying by phone is so much easier & you get a reminder before the time expires and an ability to extend without trudging back to the car! Parking machines that didn't give change were always a bugbear of mine.

Easier to know how much cash is on you than how much is in your account, surely ?!!

No. You've got to sit and count it. One quick glance tells me what I can spend on my card (or what I can't!) Admittedly if a little short I can't go looking down the back of the settee for more like you can with cash!

I find the implied superiority of non-cash users over old people who prefer to use cash because they are stupid/lazy/mean disappointing, and untrue; My 92-year old Mum does like cash but is quite prepared to use contactless, as long as she gets a receipt to keep track of her spending. With cash you can only spend what is in your hand, not so with credit cards.

My mum loved contactless and Internet banking and stopped her lifelong use of cash as she found it harder to deal with in later life. Using her ENCTS card taught her how much easier contactless was.

 

[duncanp]

The lockers at my local swimming pool only take pound coins, so I always keep one separate, and don't spend it on anything else.

I do find it off putting and bordering on the offensive to hear someone who prefers cash described as a "cash zealot", and equally it is derogatory to refer to someone who prefers to use cards as an "anti cash zealot".

People prefer different payment methods for a whole host of different reasons, and I think everyone should have the choice about which payment method to use.

I don't like a business dictating to me what method of payment I should use.

Cash is very useful if you are going to the pub and don't want to drink more than a certain amount. If you know that a pint costs £4 and you want to drink no more than three pints, you can take £12 in cash and no cards or phone, and then it is impossible to have more than three pints.

I was in a coffee shop in Birmingham a few weeks ago and when I offered cash they said it was card only. But I noticed that they had a tip jar on the counter which contained, er, ..cash. So you can accept cash for tips, but not for people who want to pay for a coffee. I find that hypocritical, and needless to say I didn't give them a cash.

Of course one factor in the decline of cash usage is the closure of many bank branches, with their associated cashpoint machines.

When I moved here nearly four years ago, there were two banks, plus a supermarket and a petrol station with a free cashpoint machine. When the first bank closed, they said you could use the cashpoint at the bank on the opposite side of the street or the one in the supermarket. When the second bank closed, they said you could use the one in the supermarket or petrol station. Then the supermarket closed, and the only one we have left is in the petrol station.

I think cash usage will decline, but I don't think it will ever die out completely. We have seen instances of banking apps and Wifi going down, rendering card payment machines inoperable

 

[BoroAndy]

Here in part of North Yorks, many shops, takeaways, especially Indian and Chinese, even bars in a 3 star hotel are cash only. Also saw a recent article saying with the current situation and inflation more people are turning to cash, it is coming back big time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has anyone on the thread other examples of bus station toilets similar to what is described above. Wigan and Bury are two that I can name.

I've been "caught short" in the Lake District due to their old cash-accepting toilet turnstiles that required the precise coin and wouldn't take overpayment (£2 would be good value if the other option is soiled* trousers).

Now they're card it hasn't happened again.

* No, I didn't, but I did, in considerable discomfort, have to go and spend a note in a shop to get the right coinage in change.

 

[Elwyn]

This article confirms the general trend away from cash but also points out that cash has some advantages, and folk at the bottom edge of society need it because they may not have any alternative. For example, it mentions people with mental health problems who struggle with IT.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/03/07/brit...ancial inclusion at cash machine network Link.

There are quite a lot of situations like that. I have a friend who advised on debt in the Citizens Advice Bureau and she mentioned clients whose bank accounts have been frozen or restricted because they have repeatedly reached or exceeded their overdraft limit. All the IT solutions in the world are no use to them and they often have to rely on cash till more money is paid in.

Then we have the tradesmen who offer a lower price if you pay cash. Dishonest, almost certainly, but how many of us have happily gone and got the cash in those circumstances?

My guess is that there will always be a level, say 10%, of society who will use cash either from choice or necessity.

 

[duncanp]

My guess is that there will always be a level, say 10%, of society who will use cash either from choice or necessity.

And those people should not be excluded from purchasing goods and services that the rest of us take for granted, as they are often the poorest and most disadvantaged people in society.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I think cash usage will decline, but I don't think it will ever die out completely. We have seen instances of banking apps and Wifi going down, rendering card payment machines inoperable

I think you're right about cash.
If the Internet goes down you can't use an ATM or get cash out at the bank or Post Office either. So there's no real solution to that.

 

[Magdalia]

If the Internet goes down you can't use an ATM or get cash out at the bank or Post Office either. So there's no real solution to that.

Its called under the mattress! Other hiding places are available.