Incorrect info from ticket office – What if??

[SirAlf]

Just wondered what might have happened...

Two of us travelled Chesterfield to Dorking on Saturday (referee !!!! but that's another story) and we had tickets from Chesterfield to St Pancras. We couldn't find an Oyster map at StP so we went to the ticket office and asked whether Dorking was in the Oyster zone – Yes, said the lady in the office

We touched in with contactless and then saw a map – Dorking ISN’T in the Oyster zone. What would have happened if there’d been a ticket check or RPI on the way (route was StP to Redhill, change at Redhill for Dorking). Two of us both heard her say that we could use Oyster but would that have been enough, or would we have got into a penalty fare discussion? We asked in good faith but we got duff info, would two of us hearing the same thing convince an RPI?

BTW we did touch back out when we found out the correct info from the map and bought tickets from a different window in the same ticket office. Missed our planned train though...

 

[AlterEgo]

You’d have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution. Another incredible bit of service from the ticket office.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You’d have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution. Another incredible bit of service from the ticket office.

Lazy member of booking office staff (too common!): the above
Professional member of booking office staff (seemingly rare): I think it is, let me get you a map...oh, it's not I'm afraid, see it's outside on this map, you'll need to buy a ticket

It's not about knowing everything, it's about knowing what to check and providing passengers with evidence.

 

[Watershed]

Just wondered what might have happened...

Two of us travelled Chesterfield to Dorking on Saturday (referee !!!! but that's another story) and we had tickets from Chesterfield to St Pancras. We couldn't find an Oyster map at StP so we went to the ticket office and asked whether Dorking was in the Oyster zone – Yes, said the lady in the office

We touched in with contactless and then saw a map – Dorking ISN’T in the Oyster zone. What would have happened if there’d been a ticket check or RPI on the way (route was StP to Redhill, change at Redhill for Dorking). Two of us both heard her say that we could use Oyster but would that have been enough, or would we have got into a penalty fare discussion? We asked in good faith but we got duff info, would two of us hearing the same thing convince an RPI?

BTW we did touch back out when we found out the correct info from the map and bought tickets from a different window in the same ticket office. Missed our planned train though...

Legally speaking you'd be in the right. But that would be little solace as RPIs etc. would, in their usual fashion, probably dismiss any explanation you gave as a "man on the platform said" story.

 

[Haywain]

You’d have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution. Another incredible bit of service from the ticket office.

Might have been Penalty Fared, or reported for prosecution or, more likely, sold a ticket.

 

[miklcct]

Just wondered what might have happened...

Two of us travelled Chesterfield to Dorking on Saturday (referee !!!! but that's another story) and we had tickets from Chesterfield to St Pancras. We couldn't find an Oyster map at StP so we went to the ticket office and asked whether Dorking was in the Oyster zone – Yes, said the lady in the office

We touched in with contactless and then saw a map – Dorking ISN’T in the Oyster zone. What would have happened if there’d been a ticket check or RPI on the way (route was StP to Redhill, change at Redhill for Dorking). Two of us both heard her say that we could use Oyster but would that have been enough, or would we have got into a penalty fare discussion? We asked in good faith but we got duff info, would two of us hearing the same thing convince an RPI?

BTW we did touch back out when we found out the correct info from the map and bought tickets from a different window in the same ticket office. Missed our planned train though...

Why don't you take the train to Redhill and touch out there, after seeing that Redhill is in the map?

 

[FenMan]

The Farnborough ticket office surpassed themselves on Friday. Two friends travelling to the Great British Beer Festival asked for Farnborough - Kensington Olympia tickets (these tickets aren't available on SWR TVMs because ........ London, or something).

They were refused. "There are no trains between Clapham Junction and Kensington Olympia, due to a line-side fire" they were told. The clerk insisted they bought Off Peak Travelcards and they were told to go to Waterloo and catch the District Line (!) back.

Er, yes, there had been a fire near Dalton on Thursday, but TfL were running a 50% Overground service out of Clapham Junction, while the Southern services to Hemel were unaffected. This information was available to anyone with access to National Rail Enquiries or similar (it's what I used).

Fortunately, they were tipped off en route and arrived only a few minutes later than planned.

I've asked them to submit a complaint, and hope they will, as SWR owes a fiver to each of them.

 

[Bill Badger]

The Farnborough ticket office surpassed themselves on Friday. Two friends travelling to the Great British Beer Festival asked for Farnborough - Kensington Olympia tickets (these tickets aren't available on SWR TVMs because ........ London, or something)

Kensington Olympia (not via London) tickets are certain available at the Farnborough TVMs. I purchased such tickets for the self same event last Tuesday.

Doesn't excuse the service received at the booking office mind!

 

[paul1609]

What happens on Southeastern in my experience is that the conductor will charge the person for a new ticket from London Terminals and advise the passenger to take a copy or photo of the ticket and email a request to TfL to cancel ammend the touch in.
It's only the section from Redhill to Dorking that isn't covered by Oyster/Contactless so you could have tapped out at Redhill and bought a Ticket.
The whole route from St Pancras to Dorking is covered by Keygo.

 

[AlterEgo]

Might have been Penalty Fared, or reported for prosecution or, more likely, sold a ticket.

Someone outside the zones on contactless will be at a minimum PF’d every time if they’re caught by an RPI.

 

[FenMan]

Kensington Olympia (not via London) tickets are certain available at the Farnborough TVMs. I purchased such tickets for the self same event last Tuesday.

Doesn't excuse the service received at the booking office mind!

Ah, thanks! I started my journey at Blackwater where the TVMs won't sell tickets for stations in the Zones. I assumed the situation would be the same at Farnborough, but appreciate I'm comparing GWR with SWR.

 

[Doppelganger]

Ah, thanks! I started my journey at Blackwater where the TVMs won't sell tickets for stations in the Zones. I assumed the situation would be the same at Farnborough, but appreciate I'm comparing GWR with SWR.

What sort of useless TVMs are those?

 

[Taunton]

You’d have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution. Another incredible bit of service from the ticket office.

Furthermore, having Oystered in at St Pancras, you couldn't Oyster Out at Dorking, as there isn't a reader, so would have been charged the maximum penalty fare for an incomplete journey, which is possibly more than the fare to Dorking AS WELL as the prosecution.

It really is about time the railway had the ability to glibly prosecute people taken away from them, even to propose it, without initial hard evidence of a criminal intent. The by-law came in at a time when everyone was checked in at the start station with a ticket which printed the destination, and checked out at the end by looking at the ticket. Nowadays, with such arcane issues like this near-boundary one, anything goes. And that's not what prosecutions are about.

 

[SirAlf]

Yes I suppose we could have touched out at Redhill but being from the Midlands and not too familiar with the Southern Home Counties that didnt occur to us. And we didn't want any further delays as we were meeting other football fans to steel ourselves up for the match, if you get my drift...

The train companies involved were Thameslink from StP (I think) and GWR from Redhill. We touched out at StP just 2-3 minutes after touching in and I dont think we've been charged anything for that

 

[paul1609]

Someone outside the zones on contactless will be at a minimum PF’d every time if they’re caught by an RPI.

but on the journey the op was taking Contactless oys

Someone outside the zones on contactless will be at a minimum PF’d every time if they’re caught by an RPI.

but zone 6 to Redhill is contactless/oyster.
Redhill to Dorking is only served by GWR likely to have a guard ticket inspection who will sell you a day return. Chances of an RPI on Redhill Dorking at a weekend slightly less than a flypass of pigs at DEEPDENE.

 

[londonbridge]

On a similar note, ie incorrect info, back before PAYG was accepted on national rail , I distinctly remember one year when the maps were printed incorrectly and Wimbledon was shown as being in zone 4, presumably someone travelling from, say,Kingston to Wimbledon with a zones 4-6 travelcard would have been in trouble if stopped.

 

[Haywain]

Someone outside the zones on contactless will be at a minimum PF’d every time if they’re caught by an RPI.

1. Contactless and Oyster are not the same.
2. Guards are available on many trains.

 

[miklcct]

We touched out at StP just 2-3 minutes after touching in and I dont think we've been charged anything for that

You will be charged a minimum fare if the touch out was after 2 minutes, or a maximum fare before that.

You need to contact the TfL helpline and explain your situation and hope for a refund.

 

[FenMan]

What sort of useless TVMs are those?

Ex-ScotRail.

 

[RJ]

Ah, thanks! I started my journey at Blackwater where the TVMs won't sell tickets for stations in the Zones. I assumed the situation would be the same at Farnborough, but appreciate I'm comparing GWR with SWR.

Is that all National Rail stations in the zones it doesn’t offer tickets for? Or just London Underground stations?

It would be worthy to raise this with the TOC that operates the machine if the former, as that’s somewhat unusual.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2022 ==

You’d have been penalty fared or reported for prosecution. Another incredible bit of service from the ticket office.

Or the other option, that discretion is shown and the right kind of ticket sold. This sort of thing happens but goes unreported.

 

[FenMan]

Is that all National Rail stations in the zones it doesn’t offer tickets for? Or just London Underground stations?

It would be worthy to raise this with the TOC that operates the machine if the former, as that’s somewhat unusual.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2022 ==

I haven't tried all possible stations in London, but of the two I often use to get "competitively" priced tickets to where I actually want to go, one is also a Tube station, while the other most definitely is not, as it is way the wrong side of the river.

 

[MikeWh]

You will be charged a minimum fare if the touch out was after 2 minutes, or a maximum fare before that.

You need to contact the TfL helpline and explain your situation and hope for a refund.

This post, which was deleted earlier, may be relevant. Check your bank account and see if you've been charged. If you have it will be either £6 off-peak max fare or £2.50 minimum fare.


Now for a slightly pedantic note. You can use Oyster on the 465 bus between Kingston - Surbiton - Chessington and Dorking. It takes about an hour from Surbiton.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Redhill to Dorking is only served by GWR likely to have a guard ticket inspection who will sell you a day return. Chances of an RPI on Redhill Dorking at a weekend slightly less than a flypass of pigs at DEEPDENE.

Same chance of being PF'ed at Dorking as Southern Gateline staff don't issue PF, let alone sell tickets, all they could do is warn people and refer them to the ticket office. Southern don't have any RPI's anymore!