Buying on app. on train

[scrapy]

Northerns Zebra machines if programmed correctly will know the train the guard/rpi is working on and will have real time updates as to the progress of the train. If a train was scheduled to leave Manchester at 10.00 and actually left at 10.10 the machine knows.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Can you clarify what you mean by come from elsewhere? What was your full journey by rail and if you came from elsewhere by rail, did you have any other tickets and what facilities were available from your origin station? What time did any other train arrive at Piccadilly?

Had ticket for inbound journey not for onward so tried to buy on app

I guess an additional question is whether there was a guard selling tickets on the inbound journey (if inbound means into Manchester)

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

apologies not to have replied; not been getting the alerts to say there had been other posts

i'd come in on XC with 5 mins to spare just had ticket to pic. at time of boarding was meant to be getting lift for last part of journey

train sched at 2232; departed on time was getting the wheel of fortune on boarding (ticket was anytime single) presume the purchase after departure warning comes up as the purchase time is after the scheduled train time ?

 

[Watershed]

apologies not to have replied; not been getting the alerts to say there had been other posts

i'd come in on XC with 5 mins to spare just had ticket to pic. at time of boarding was meant to be getting lift for last part of journey

train sched at 2232; departed on time was getting the wheel of fortune on boarding (ticket was anytime single) presume the purchase after departure warning comes up as the purchase time is after the scheduled train time ?

What station did you start your journey at, and at what time? Did a member of staff come through on the XC service selling/checking tickets?

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

No xc ticket check in coaches i was in

 

[Watershed]

No xc ticket check in coaches i was in

Ok. What about the first question? Without telling us the answer to this it will be difficult to accurately assist you.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

No xc ticket check in coaches i was in

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2022 ==

? Why is relevant !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2022 ==

While I take the OP at face value, "I couldn't buy a ticket because of bad 4G" isn't a brilliant excuse when there are plentiful TVMs and a ticket office available at your starting station

Ticket office shut and yes tvm but the one on overbridge doesnt take cash .so used app as stated.
This seems to have started a whole discussion which wasn't intended
Will update when i hear anything

 

[Watershed]

Why is relevant !

Because it may be the difference between you being in the right, and thus not having to pay any settlement - and potentially being liable for a conviction, fine and a criminal record.

I also note that the connection from the XC service onto the 22:32 was only 9 minutes, so not an 'official' one. That doesn't inherently mean you're liable to prosecution etc. but it may be an argument the TOC may raise.

Ticket office shut and yes tvm but the one on overbridge doesnt take cash .so used app as stated.

Presumably you were going to pay on the app using a card. Did you have this (or any other) card on you? If so, and if you could have used this card, the availability of cash facilities on the TVM is irrelevant unfortunately.

This seems to have started a whole discussion which wasn't intended

You can't really start a thread like this and expect people to advise without the full circumstances!

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

You don't need card if using app as card stored on app which I'm sure you are aware of ?..just need your cvc number which is stored in my head!
Surely if one has cash and it can't be used for payment that isn't my issue?
I had means to pay but not the opportunity/availability to do so
Hence my using app etc

Yes of course I realise disclosure necessary!

 

[Watershed]

You don't need card if using app as card stored on app which I'm sure you are aware of ?..just need your cvc number which is stored in my head!

Indeed which is why I asked whether you had the card on you.

Surely if one has cash and it can't be used for payment that isn't my issue?

The TOC may ask whether you also had a card on you. Are you going to lie if they ask you?

I had means to pay but not the opportunity/availability to do so
Hence my using app etc

That's of course legitimate if there wasn't any opportunity. But the laws assume that you know what journey you'll be doing when you set out. So the facilities at your origin station are the primary consideration. Without knowing that we are guessing in the dark really!

 

[Cantab26]

Because unlike the railway Tesco can't prosecute privately, they have to go through the police and Crown Prosecution Service (who haven't got the resources to prosecute somebody stealing a loaf of bread).

This is off-topic, but I think it is important to clarify (given the legal nature of the matter and the potentially serious consequences) that Tesco may bring a private prosecution for the same reasons that the railway can i.e. anyone may do so on behalf of the Crown in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

There is no need for any private prosecutor to go through the police or the Crown Prosecution Service first.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

No not gonna lie
As I've mentioned already it was all last minute for the onward journey
Will defo carry one card going forward...cash is sadly going out of fashion as this experience has shown

 

[Wallsendmag]

No not gonna lie
As I've mentioned already it was all last minute for the onward journey
Will defo carry one card going forward...cash is sadly going out of fashion as this experience has shown

Just add it to your phone wallet

 

[AlterEgo]

If it gets to court and you use the “didn’t have a card” defence the magistrates will of course be invited to consider whether it is likely you make journeys without any bank cards in your person. I am not sure I would like to leave that up to a magistrate.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Fair comment but that's what happened..
I've actually got cards in virtual wallet..
Can you use at a TvM ? If you can then i didn't know...(and before Judge Judy comments I know ignorance is no defence)

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Apparently there is a "Cash and Card Kiosk" on the overbridge

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/653469/response/1552121/attach/2/012%20Ticket%20Vending%20Machine%20List.pdf

Manchester Piccadilly Live Kiosk 2562 Plat 13/14 Overbridge

 

[skyhigh]

I've actually got cards in virtual wallet..
Can you use at a TvM

Assuming you can use them as contactless, then you can, yes.

 

[Benjwri]

Assuming you can use them as contactless, then you can, yes.

This isn’t strictly true. A lot of, at least older, GWR TVMs don’t accept Apple and Google pay, and I’ve found some TFL ones that won’t either. It isn’t that much of a stretch to assume that extends to the rest of the country

 

[Bletchleyite]

This isn’t strictly true. A lot of, at least older, GWR TVMs don’t accept Apple and Google pay, and I’ve found some TFL ones that won’t either. It isn’t that much of a stretch to assume that extends to the rest of the country

I've twice now discovered faulty contactless pads on Chiltern TVMs so I had to use my actual card with chip and PIN. I don't know if this is just coincidence or to do with the fraud issue discussed in a thread on the bus forum. But at present I still think it unwise not to carry either a physical card or sufficient cash as a backup to a phone.

 

[Benjwri]

I've twice now discovered faulty contactless pads on Chiltern TVMs so I had to use my actual card with chip and PIN. I don't know if this is just coincidence or to do with the fraud issue discussed in a thread on the bus forum. But at present I still think it unwise not to carry either a physical card or sufficient cash as a backup to a phone.

I think it might just be that they aren’t programmed to allow Apple and Google Pay. They work with contactless physical cards. A lot of parking machines around me have the same issue. The GWR ones have never allowed Apple or Google pay, since well before this fraud issue started.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it might just be that they aren’t programmed to allow Apple and Google Pay. They work with contactless physical cards. A lot of parking machines around me have the same issue.

They didn't work with the physical card both times. The green lights were off, and the terminal said "insert card".

I think the one at Bletchley on the right was broken last week too, thinking on. I do wonder if the bus fraud is related and they are actually switched off.

 

[Benjwri]

I've twice now discovered faulty contactless pads on Chiltern TVMs so I had to use my actual card with chip and PIN. I don't know if this is just coincidence or to do with the fraud issue discussed in a thread on the bus forum. But at present I still think it unwise not to carry either a physical card or sufficient cash as a backup to a phone.

It isn’t to do with the bus ban. That’s because the Ticketer system used on buses doesn’t take the full payment immediately, and therefore if the card is unregistered from Apple Pay before it takes payment the full payment will not be able to be taken, but they will already be long gone from the bus. TVMs take full payment immediately, as in any store, so not sure why they have it disabled

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Apparently there is a "Cash and Card Kiosk" on the overbridge

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/653469/response/1552121/attach/2/012%20Ticket%20Vending%20Machine%20List.pdf

Manchester Piccadilly Live Kiosk 2562 Plat 13/14 Overbridge

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2022 ==

Card only!

 

[Dai Corner]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2022 ==

Card only!

Including contactless (assuming that wasn't broken/disabled).

 

[Wallsendmag]

Fair comment but that's what happened..
I've actually got cards in virtual wallet..
Can you use at a TvM ? If you can then i didn't know...(and before Judge Judy comments I know ignorance is no defence)

Our Flowbird TVMs take apple and Google pay and they're running the same software as Northern and Chiltern.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Please see post 46

 

[Dai Corner]

Please see post 46

Which says

Northern Trains Limited - Ticket Vending Machine List
Information correct as at 13/03/2020

things may have changed since.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

And would appear they have !
Was merely saying cash not an option..would never rely on website

 

[185]

The link bridge lounge can be accessed via a direct lift from Fairfield St. It's many years since I encountered a ticket check at the overbridge end of the station.

Northern revenue are frequently seen either infront of the lift (before) and occasionally outside (after) the lift exit on Fairfield Street in ticketless & short-fare ops.

They do seem to get a few, and BTP have joined them on occasion - the lift is a favourite exit for fare evaders.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It isn’t to do with the bus ban. That’s because the Ticketer system used on buses doesn’t take the full payment immediately, and therefore if the card is unregistered from Apple Pay before it takes payment the full payment will not be able to be taken, but they will already be long gone from the bus. TVMs take full payment immediately, as in any store, so not sure why they have it disabled

Thanks for explaining the entirety of that problem! You may want to also post it on that thread where nobody has quite said what it was.