Are Class 700’s really that bad?

[Goldfish62]

I think so, yes. The aisles look a bit narrower than the Thameslink ones, but I think the Aventras (Aventrae?) have a narrower body overall than the Desiro Cities. The seats are the same "ironing boards", produced by Compin-Fainsa, but it looks like they have considerably more padding than the Thameslink ones.

(All based off photos - I've not actually been on one, obviously!)

Yes, they've been quoted as being slightly wider and with thicker padding.

Will any of us ever actually get a chance to sample them, though?!

 

[Intro298]

Yes, they've been quoted as being slightly wider and with thicker padding.

Will any of us ever actually get a chance to sample them, though?!

I went on a Class 720 yesterday, the padding is better than the class 700’s but the seats are very narrow, and the aisle is also very narrow.

 

[ert47]

Despite the lack of padding in the seats, I had witnessed a person throw his bag on one of the facing seats on a 700. I’m just thankful to have had a mask with me that day!

 

[Hadders]

700s have fewer seats per carriage than the ones they replaced but as the trains are longer there are more seats overall.

The seating principle was very much fewer seats so more people can stand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I went on a Class 720 yesterday, the padding is better than the class 700’s but the seats are very narrow, and the aisle is also very narrow.

I rode one to Hertford E then walked to N and took a 717 back. The 717 seat was to me far better. The 720 base was particularly hard.

 

[Mikey C]

What's the situation with seat back tables and WiFi? I had assumed that all the 12 car trains would be or had been upgraded, but on 2 journeys today neither had tables or WiFi.

 

[jon0844]

What's the situation with seat back tables and WiFi? I had assumed that all the 12 car trains would be or had been upgraded, but on 2 journeys today neither had tables or WiFi.

The DfT didn't agree to fund any retrofitting so it is what it is.

 

[AM9]

What's the situation with seat back tables and WiFi? I had assumed that all the 12 car trains would be or had been upgraded, but on 2 journeys today neither had tables or WiFi.

There was a token fitting of a few 12-car trains in a later batch, which got the complainers off their back.They were then all in service and neither money nor availability to faff around retrofitting. The next opportunity will be in their mid-life refit so come back around 2030-35.

 

[RichJF]

The actual "train", ie the Desiro City that the 700 is part of, is a pretty solid & reliable family of trains and quite well suited to the needs of the typical SE railway.

I think most peoples' gripe is with the awful, clinical interior spec that the DFT mandated. It's fine for a journey between Croydon - Farringdon for example, but the interior is unsuitable for a long distance commute from say Brighton - London or Cambridge - London.

 

[Mikey C]

There was a token fitting of a few 12-car trains in a later batch, which got the complainers off their back.They were then all in service and neither money nor availability to faff around retrofitting. The next opportunity will be in their mid-life refit so come back around 2030-35.

Isn't WiFi on trains something which the government pledged a few years ago? Hence all sorts of older trains had it retrofitted, indeed I imagine the whole of the Southeastern and Southern fleet has WiFi.

 

[Bald Rick]

but the interior is unsuitable for a long distance commute from say Brighton - London or Cambridge - London.

In your opinion.

I find them perfectly ok for St Albans to Brighton, a journey I do regularly. (Including in Standard class before anyone asks!)

 

[Mzzzs]

I find the interior fine for any kind of long distance trip. The only problem I have with them is the seats and that people never seems to move along the train just crowd around one area.
Also the information screens are some of the best and should be standard moving forward.

 

[AM9]

Isn't WiFi on trains something which the government pledged a few years ago? Hence all sorts of older trains had it retrofitted, indeed I imagine the whole of the Southeastern and Southern fleet has WiFi.

I believe that the 700s were fully wired* for wi-fi when built, although I think that most passengers use 4/5G for their browsing. The last time I used wi-fi on them, it stopped working as we descended the incline from Dock Junction. Unless the urban railways address the problems of reception in tunnels and subterranean stations, wi-fi on those trains is of limited value to many. Maybe a better long term solution is for mobile providers to club together with Network rail and run leaky feeders along tunnels so that users stay on their network connection.
* I know that sounds like an oxymoron

 

[43096]

I believe that the 700s were fully wired* for wi-fi when built

They weren’t. Siemens repeatedly asked DfT if they wanted wifi wiring added during the build as it was much cheaper to install during build. DfT decided not, then came back part way through the build asking for wifi to be included.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Isn't WiFi on trains something which the government pledged a few years ago? Hence all sorts of older trains had it retrofitted, indeed I imagine the whole of the Southeastern and Southern fleet has WiFi.

Cellnex have a contract to deliver continuous 5G coverage along the entirety of the Brighton Mainline, so I do wonder if on-train wifi will continue to have the same value in the future.

 

[AM9]

Cellnex have a contract to deliver continuous 5G coverage along the entirety of the Brighton Mainline, so I do wonder if on-train wifi will continue to have the same value in the future.

Given the financial pressure that the railway is under, when adequate bandwidth is available from mobile networks, wasting TOC/NR budget of a wi-fi provision that is fed from those same mobile networks is laughable.

 

[Wolfie]

Given the financial pressure that the railway is under, when adequate bandwidth is available from mobile networks, wasting TOC/NR budget of a wi-fi provision that is fed from those same mobile networks is laughable.

When even basic new buses now offer WiFi the railway not doing so makes its product less competitive.

 

[43066]

When even basic new buses now offer WiFi the railway not doing so makes its product less competitive.

WiFi is increasingly old hat though, nowadays. If you have a 4G or 5G phone it’s generally better just to use that.

 

[bramling]

WiFi is increasingly old hat though, nowadays. If you have a 4G or 5G phone it’s generally better just to use that.

It’s more useful for stuff like laptops, though to be fair I don’t think I’ve ever used a laptop on a train.

Must admit since we got wi-fi in my office at work, my laptop has spent rather more time there than hitherto!

 

[350401]

I've got quite mixed feelings about these trains, having used them regularly from Bromley South to Blackfriars. The upsides are that the air conditioning is effective, and that the walk through design seems to ensure loads are relatively well spread. However, the seats are very narrow, and on the odd occasion that the trains are fully loaded, it's very uncomfortable being sat next to someone. Additionally, Thameslink's cleaning regime leaves a lot to be desired. The trains are often graffitied internally, with etched and tagged windows. The toilets are an absolute disaster - at least one is usually out of service, and they are covered in graffiti internally, with pretty much no effort being made to clean it off. I much prefer travelling via Southeastern if possible - whilst the stoppers lack air conditioning, the trains have a much more comfortable interior.

 

[AM9]

I've got quite mixed feelings about these trains, having used them regularly from Bromley South to Blackfriars. The upsides are that the air conditioning is effective, and that the walk through design seems to ensure loads are relatively well spread. However, the seats are very narrow, and on the odd occasion that the trains are fully loaded, it's very uncomfortable being sat next to someone. Additionally, Thameslink's cleaning regime leaves a lot to be desired. The trains are often graffitied internally, with etched and tagged windows. The toilets are an absolute disaster - at least one is usually out of service, and they are covered in graffiti internally, with pretty much no effort being made to clean it off. I much prefer travelling via Southeastern if possible - whilst the stoppers lack air conditioning, the trains have a much more comfortable interior.

I don't see how graffiti can be blamed on the TOC.

 

[PlatformEdgeVT]

I find the 700s to be quite good, the Passenger Information Screens were incredible, and the interiors were clean. I can understand the seat complaints, and most of the units I'd travelled on recently rarely had seat-back tables, which can be a problem if you have food or a laptop. The WiFi also limits data usage, which is a problem on longer journeys, where mobile connections can be quite bad.

 

[Fuzzytop]

I don't see how graffiti can be blamed on the TOC.

Internal graffiti that's never cleaned off? I don't see how it can be blamed on the train, but the TOC is surely to blame for letting trains continue in service like that. The cleanliness on many a 700 I've travelled on lately has been truly disgraceful.

I'm not keen on the seats, but that aside, I don't mind the 700s. They do their job very well.

 

[Bald Rick]

I must say that in my opinion from daily usage, the cleanliness / graffiti situation on the 700s is unchanged since they were introduced. I mostly use them on the MML though, perhaps they go through an interior clean when crossing the border at Farringdon.

 

[Hadders]

As a train the 700s are pretty effective at doing what they are designed to do which is to move lots of people about.

My gripe with them is the standard class ironing board seats, specifically the lack of space between the seat and the side wall of the train and the lack of a small gap between the two seats in a pair. I'm tall and I do find sitting in the window seat uncoomfortable, in part because of large heating udct at floor level.

As for graffitti or toilet cleanliness I don't see any major issues and I use these trains on an almost daily basis.

 

[jon0844]

I find the 700s to be quite good, the Passenger Information Screens were incredible, and the interiors were clean. I can understand the seat complaints, and most of the units I'd travelled on recently rarely had seat-back tables, which can be a problem if you have food or a laptop. The WiFi also limits data usage, which is a problem on longer journeys, where mobile connections can be quite bad.

The WiFi doesn't stop working when you hit the relatively low limit, it is just throttled a bit more. It does block lots of things tough, meaning you'll need a VPN to bypass those restrictions.

 

[Mzzzs]

The graffiti problem goes much more deep than not being cleaned off when they do cleaned it off especially the toilets it reappears within days better action is needed to stop it.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must say that in my opinion from daily usage, the cleanliness / graffiti situation on the 700s is unchanged since they were introduced. I mostly use them on the MML though, perhaps they go through an interior clean when crossing the border at Farringdon.

Are you on the 8 cars or the 12 cars. I find the 8 cars worse, particularly the ones on the WGC - Sevenoaks services. The coaches themselves are ok but the toilets are heavily covered.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are you on the 8 cars or the 12 cars. I find the 8 cars worse, particularly the ones on the WGC - Sevenoaks services. The coaches themselves are ok but the toilets are heavily covered.

both.

although I rarely use the toilets. On any train.

 

[Failed Unit]

both.

although I rarely use the toilets. On any train.

I blame the graffiti on some of the places they visit south or the river.