East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[Bald Rick]

There was talk some years back of a new town or at least a very large house building program at Tempsford, looks like that may have been dusted off and moved somewhat North. Either way currently there is no exit on the current A428 from Black Cat near where this or any potential interchange station between East West and ECML may be.

there is an ‘unused’ exit off the east side of the Black Cat….

 

[snowball]

there is an ‘unused’ exit off the east side of the Black Cat….

Not if/when Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet goes ahead.

A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet Road Improvement scheme - Project information

infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk

 

[Dunnyrail]

Not if/when Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet goes ahead.

A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet Road Improvement scheme - Project information

infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk

Bit of thread drift but it is or at least should be tied up with whatever happens with East West Railway and the A428. The current plans for the dueling of the A428 show a complete rebuild of Black Cat Roundabout again. I think that spare exit was another bit of wasted money.

A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet improvements

Creating a reliable, high quality route from Black Cat junction to Caxton Gibbet junction that will meet the future traffic needs of the region.

nationalhighways.co.uk

 

[richieb1971]

I don't think there any concrete plans that show how the A428 duel carriageway and EWR marry up together if at all. When is the next big EWR announcement from the EWR group?

 

[jfowkes]

Interesting update: the IPA have said EWR stages 2 and 3 as unachievable in the current timescale and budget.

East West Rail branded 'unachievable' by IPA | New Civil Engineer

The Infrastructure and Projects Authority (IPA) gave a red rating to stages two and three of the ambitious scheme to connect Oxford and Cambridge. A

www.newcivilengineer.com

The Cambridge section always seemed ambitious to me, not that I don't support it.

Mods: I know this is the consultation thread and this is therefore a bit off-topic. I couldn't find a generic EWR thread to put it in. Please move if desired.

 

[richieb1971]

Well I for one believe its not value for money going east of Bedford the way its presented. The consultation process is flawed in that billions need to be spent on a railway that may as well be isolated from the network.

 

[jfowkes]

Well I for one believe its not value for money going east of Bedford the way its presented. The consultation process is flawed in that billions need to be spent on a railway that may as well be isolated from the network.

Can you expand on that? It's not planned to have a connection to the ECML as I understand it, but it will have connections to the WCML, CML, MML and GAML at least to some extent.
How would it be more integrated, in your opinion?

 

[fgwrich]

So is Bletchley to Bedford upgrades considered phase 2? In which case, are we facing the ridiculous situation of Oxford > Bicester > Bletchey being a 100mph railway, connecting into a 50mph trundle to Bedford?

 

[swt_passenger]

So is Bletchley to Bedford upgrades considered phase 2? In which case, are we facing the ridiculous situation of Oxford > Bicester > Bletchey being a 100mph railway, connecting into a 50mph trundle to Bedford?

Yes, but it’s been known for quite a while that there were no line speed improvements between Bletchley and Bedford in this stage of the project. It was stated in the TWA inspectors report, and was discussed at length early last year, and probably even earlier.

 

[The Planner]

So is Bletchley to Bedford upgrades considered phase 2? In which case, are we facing the ridiculous situation of Oxford > Bicester > Bletchey being a 100mph railway, connecting into a 50mph trundle to Bedford?

2B, Bicester Bletchley is 2A.

 

[daodao]

Interesting update: the IPA have said EWR stages 2 and 3 as unachievable in the current timescale and budget.

East West Rail branded 'unachievable' by IPA | New Civil Engineer

The Infrastructure and Projects Authority (IPA) gave a red rating to stages two and three of the ambitious scheme to connect Oxford and Cambridge. A

www.newcivilengineer.com

The Cambridge section always seemed ambitious to me, not that I don't support it.

Mods: I know this is the consultation thread and this is therefore a bit off-topic. I couldn't find a generic EWR thread to put it in. Please move if desired.

Work is already underway on phase 2 (Bicester-Bedford), but not the Aylesbury link. Surely it is just stage 3 that is at serious risk of being shelved?

 

[The Planner]

Work is already underway on phase 2 (Bicester-Bedford), but not the Aylesbury link. Surely it is just stage 3 that is at serious risk of being shelved?

Nothing is being done on Bletchley Bedford currently?

 

[richieb1971]

Nothing is being done on Bletchley Bedford currently?

No evidence of it being touched thus far. The problem is, if they touch it, its a commitment to the rest of it.

 

[zwk500]

No evidence of it being touched thus far. The problem is, if they touch it, its a commitment to the rest of it.

Only a commitment as far as Bedford. And it will be upgraded, the question we are still waiting on is exactly which options they decided upon.

 

[Cantab26]

Upgrade works to deliver one additional train per hour between Bletchley and Bedford have already been consented (through the TWAO) and some of them have already been implemented.

This is separate to any other works that might be needed to deliver other service enhancements, such as new Bletchley to Cambridge trains, but that’s still being examined.

 

[The Planner]

Upgrade works to deliver one additional train per hour between Bletchley and Bedford have already been consented (through the TWAO) and some of them have already been implemented.

This is separate to any other works that might be needed to deliver other service enhancements, such as new Bletchley to Cambridge trains, but that’s still being examined.

Id argue you don't necessarily need to do anything unless the level crossing risk or similar has risen dramatically. If someone was to spot bid a few extra freight trains down there a day, no one would bat an eyelid.

 

[edwin_m]

Id argue you don't necessarily need to do anything unless the level crossing risk or similar has risen dramatically. If someone was to spot bid a few extra freight trains down then a day, no one would bat an eyelid.

If you're adding 1TPH to Bedford, let alone anything continuing to Cambridge, then the law of Sod states that said increase in crossing risk is likely to arise at least once.

 

[Falcon1200]

DfT Press release today (22 June)
Oxford station phase 2 works Transport & Works Act order

Report in the Oxford Mail that next summer, the Botley Road underbridge will be closed, to both rail and road, for approximately three months ! This cannot be correct surely; The railway is a vital route between the Cotswolds, the South Midlands and Oxford itself to Reading, Paddington and the South Coast, for both passenger and freight traffic, while Botley Road is the main, if not only, route between the western suburbs (and further afield) and the city centre.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/20582090.botley-road-oxford-train-station-set-close-next-summer/

 

[swt_passenger]

Report in the Oxford Mail that next summer, the Botley Road underbridge will be closed, to both rail and road, for approximately three months ! This cannot be correct surely; The railway is a vital route between the Cotswolds, the South Midlands and Oxford itself to Reading, Paddington and the South Coast, for both passenger and freight traffic, while Botley Road is the main, if not only, route between the western suburbs (and further afield) and the city centre.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/20582090.botley-road-oxford-train-station-set-close-next-summer/

Typical exaggeration by local rag. Copied from the link:

“This will mean the road and station will need to be completely closed. This is due to take place at the end of July or start of August.
“Ahead of that we will need to do preparation work, including the diversion of utility services. We are currently discussing all this with Oxfordshire County Council to establish best way of doing this.”

It should probably be read as “the work will take place over 3 months - with some overnight or weekend closures”...

 

[Falcon1200]

It should probably be read as “the work will take place over 3 months - with some overnight or weekend closures”...

I would think (and certainly hope !) that that is the case.

 

[The Planner]

I would think (and certainly hope !) that that is the case.

There will be a decent sized block though for this railway wise. It will coincide with whenever BMW at Cowley has its shut down.

 

[cle]

There will be a decent sized block though for this railway wise. It will coincide with whenever BMW at Cowley has its shut down.

on that note, and on topic, as relates to talk of through EWR trains (to Marylebone at least) - is there any news on Cowley itself? Surely would make sense to do the mainline improvement works required during the same station works blocks?

 

[JamesT]

on that note, and on topic, as relates to talk of through EWR trains (to Marylebone at least) - is there any news on Cowley itself? Surely would make sense to do the mainline improvement works required during the same station works blocks?

As the local MP is still campaigning for the Cowley Branch reopening, it would seem a little premature to be doing work on a project that hasn’t been approved yet. The news reports suggest NR haven’t submitted a business case yet. Could it go from that state to boots on the ground in a year? https://www.anneliesedodds.org.uk/n...es-campaign-to-reopen-the-cowley-branch-line/

 

[swt_passenger]

on that note, and on topic, as relates to talk of through EWR trains (to Marylebone at least) - is there any news on Cowley itself? Surely would make sense to do the mainline improvement works required during the same station works blocks?

I suggest there shouldn’t really be any talk of EWR to Marylebone, DfT cancelled that possibility well before the TWA application was made, IIRC to remove the need for any infrastructure work between Aylesbury and Princes Risbrough.

 

[cle]

I suggest there shouldn’t really be any talk of EWR to Marylebone, DfT cancelled that possibility well before the TWA application was made, IIRC to remove the need for any infrastructure work between Aylesbury and Princes Risbrough.

Sorry I'll clarify - I meant that it's become common chat (true or not) on the topic, that any passenger trains to Cowley/Science Park would be extensions of Chiltern's Marylebone-Oxford services (which run on EWR for a stretch!)

Which in turn free up the bays for EWR, I guess, is another benefit. Platforming the ex-Cowley Marylebone bound will be curious. Likely the current Up after the works are done.

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry I'll clarify - I meant that it's become common chat (true or not) on the topic, that any passenger trains to Cowley/Science Park would be extensions of Chiltern's Marylebone-Oxford services (which run on EWR for a stretch!)

Which in turn free up the bays for EWR, I guess, is another benefit. Platforming the ex-Cowley Marylebone bound will be curious. Likely the current Up after the works are done.

Ok then, I see what you mean now, but I’d still consider that extending that service to Cowley is not really a key part of the EWR project.

 

[zwk500]

Ok then, I see what you mean now, but I’d still consider that extending that service to Cowley is not really a key part of the EWR project.

It's not any part of the EWR project. there was some initial noise about EWR running to Didcot or Reading for connectivity reasons, but it was fairly quickly dropped given the extra movements across Oxford North Jn, extra crew and extra units (not to mention precious platform capacity) that would be required.

 

[The Planner]

on that note, and on topic, as relates to talk of through EWR trains (to Marylebone at least) - is there any news on Cowley itself? Surely would make sense to do the mainline improvement works required during the same station works blocks?

Seeing as Cowley is still a wishlist item, you won't see anything for that for years yet. No one is going to do anything for a non committed or funded project.

 

[Falcon1200]

It's not any part of the EWR project. there was some initial noise about EWR running to Didcot or Reading for connectivity reasons, but it was fairly quickly dropped given the extra movements across Oxford North Jn, extra crew and extra units (not to mention precious platform capacity) that would be required.

Although until (if ?) Didcot/Oxford is electrified, that would actually make sense, as most of the current diesel shuttles terminate at Oxford and shunt via the carriage sidings anyway !

 

[zwk500]

Although until (if ?) Didcot/Oxford is electrified, that would actually make sense, as most of the current diesel shuttles terminate at Oxford and shunt via the carriage sidings anyway !

AIUI Didcot to Oxford electrification will happen once the Oxford remodelling is complete. It wouldn't make sense to tie WCML traffic at MK into potential disruption between Oxford and Didcot.