Door Closing chimes on EMR Intercity services

[tsyxa]

EMR is my local operator and I ride the Meridian and Adelante trains quite often. One thing I have noticed is that the trains play a door opening chime when unlocked (not when opened) and seem to lack a chime for the door closing. Isn’t this a PRM requirement? Why is it like this

 

[Bletchleyite]

EMR is my local operator and I ride the Meridian and Adelante trains quite often. One thing I have noticed is that the trains play a door opening chime when unlocked (not when opened) and seem to lack a chime for the door closing. Isn’t this a PRM requirement? Why is it like this

They do have the standard "beepbeepbeepbeep" noise when the doors close. It doesn't sound if the door is already closed.

 

[tsyxa]

They do have the standard "beepbeepbeepbeep" noise when the doors close. It doesn't sound if the door is already closed.

I rode a 222 today and heard many other 222/180s, none of them had a chime when the guard closed the doors

 

[Bletchleyite]

I rode a 222 today and heard many other 222/180s, none of them had a chime when the guard closed the doors

It's fairly quiet against the racket the engines make, but it's definitely there on dispatch. It may be missing if the doors close due to a timer, it is or was on some stock?

 

[tsyxa]

It’s definitely missing on most if not all 222s for closing on a timer (all I saw today didn’t have one). It may have just been too quiet but each time I’ve seen one when they’re dispatched and all doors close at the same time there’s no sound

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s definitely missing on most if not all 222s for closing on a timer (all I saw today didn’t have one). It may have just been too quiet but each time I’ve seen one when they’re dispatched and all doors close at the same time there’s no sound

There definitely is on dispatch if a door is still open. Is your hearing not 100%? I know on Voyagers it's fairly quiet but definitely there.

 

[LowLevel]

It’s definitely missing on most if not all 222s for closing on a timer (all I saw today didn’t have one). It may have just been too quiet but each time I’ve seen one when they’re dispatched and all doors close at the same time there’s no sound

It does sound when they're on a timer, but it's very quiet and easy to miss, particularly from outside over the engines. People being squashed by closing 222 doors is not an unusual sight.

 

[tsyxa]

There definitely is on dispatch if a door is still open. Is your hearing not 100%? I know on Voyagers it's fairly quiet but definitely there.

Haha yes my hearing as 100% (as far as I’m aware ). Ill be riding to London next week so I can check again then and if the door does close then I’ll try to reopen it but yeah I’ve never heard it before

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2022 ==

It does sound when they're on a timer, but it's very quiet and easy to miss, particularly from outside over the engines. People being squashed by closing 222 doors is not an unusual sight.

I was on board the trains and they didn’t sound- it must be missing like Bletchleyite said

 

[liamf656]

It’s definitely there. I travel every day on the Meridians and none of them are silent

 

[43066]

It does sound when they're on a timer, but it's very quiet and easy to miss, particularly from outside over the engines.

This!

 

[tsyxa]

This!

Haha yes my hearing as 100% (as far as I’m aware ). Ill be riding to London next week so I can check again then and if the door does close then I’ll try to reopen it but yeah I’ve never heard it before

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2022 ==



I was on board the trains and they didn’t sound- it must be missing like Bletchleyite said

It was 222 015 in particular

 

[43066]

It was 222 015 in particular

Stand right next to the doors and you’ll hear it, it’s quieter than most modern stock.

 

[The exile]

It does sound when they're on a timer, but it's very quiet and easy to miss, particularly from outside over the engines. People being squashed by closing 222 doors is not an unusual sight.

Not sure audible alarms would make much difference there!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've tended to find it's more the *interior* doors that squash people on 22x, no sensors on them at all so they just push against you then if you stop them you hear the mechanism pulling itself to bits. The ultimate in atrocious design!

 

[Energy]

I've tended to find it's more the *interior* doors that squash people on 22x, no sensors on them at all so they just push against you then if you stop them you hear the mechanism pulling itself to bits. The ultimate in atrocious design!

I'm suprised they don't do the lazy presence test of stop when the amps are too high

 

[LowLevel]

I've tended to find it's more the *interior* doors that squash people on 22x, no sensors on them at all so they just push against you then if you stop them you hear the mechanism pulling itself to bits. The ultimate in atrocious design!

Only on 220/221. 222 do have an obstacle detector on the interior doors, albeit a rather rubbish one.

 

[NoOnesFool]

I've tended to find it's more the *interior* doors that squash people on 22x, no sensors on them at all so they just push against you then if you stop them you hear the mechanism pulling itself to bits. The ultimate in atrocious design!

There is a black foot operated button on the floor that you can press to stop them closing on you and it also opens the doors if you have your hands full.

Hope this helps.

 

[MCR247]

They definitely have one - but I also used to think they didn’t. If you stand right next to a door as it’s closing you’ll hear it. But if you’re seated in the saloon you won’t (although weirdly you can normally hear the opening chime from here. Perhaps as at opening the engines rev down, whilst at closing they’ll be revving up.

If you happen to board a set in energy saving mode at the terminus and you’re in one of the powered down coaches you normally can hear the closing chimes throughout the carriage due to the lack of noise

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why do 22x engines rev up as the doors are closing? Long wondered that.

 

[Domh245]

I think the door closing is incidental - IIRC they rev up when the direction selector is moved away from neutral to forward(/reverse) in the same way that the transformer buzz on modern EMUs will increase when 'in gear' - which is usually done when the doors close!

 

[43066]

Why do 22x engines rev up as the doors are closing? Long wondered that.

I think the door closing is incidental - IIRC they rev up when the direction selector is moved away from neutral to forward(/reverse) in the same way that the transformer buzz on modern EMUs will increase when 'in gear' - which is usually done when the doors close!

That’s exactly what it is, the position of the doors makes no difference.

 

[LowLevel]

That’s exactly what it is, the position of the doors makes no difference.

If they're anything like our 15x drivers, the coincidence is probably reinforced by them generally putting the train into forward when they hear the hustle alarm start to sound.

 

[Efini92]

Why do 22x engines rev up as the doors are closing? Long wondered that.

Probably the driver selecting forward on the master switch.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s exactly what it is, the position of the doors makes no difference.

Cheers all, wondered that for ages!

 

[NoOnesFool]

Why do 22x engines rev up as the doors are closing? Long wondered that.

The 222s are powered by a diesel generator which creates an electric current to the drive chain. Simply put, it is the generator powering up tk create energy to accelerate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 222s are powered by a diesel generator which creates an electric current to the drive chain. Simply put, it is the generator powering up tk create energy to accelerate.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but as they don't have traction batteries that energy is only needed when it actually starts moving.

Others have provided the correct explanation, though I'm not entirely sure why putting it into Forward requires more power (there's nowhere to put it bar burning it off on the roof mounted resistors), it isn't required until the controller is set to power.

 

[Efini92]

Yes, I'm aware of that, but as they don't have traction batteries that energy is only needed when it actually starts moving.

Others have provided the correct explanation, though I'm not entirely sure why putting it into Forward requires more power (there's nowhere to put it bar burning it off on the roof mounted resistors), it isn't required until the controller is set to power.

It’s what the computer has the idles set at. It’s slightly higher revs in forward or reverse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s what the computer has the idles set at. It’s slightly higher revs in forward or reverse.

Is there a clutch disconnecting the generators, or is it just burnt off in the resistor packs or chucked into the coach batteries if the power isn't needed?

 

[Domh245]

Yes, I'm aware of that, but as they don't have traction batteries that energy is only needed when it actually starts moving.

Others have provided the correct explanation, though I'm not entirely sure why putting it into Forward requires more power (there's nowhere to put it bar burning it off on the roof mounted resistors), it isn't required until the controller is set to power.

Potentially when switched away from neutral the traction electronics are switched-in and there's a 'parasitic' draw on these?

The other thing to bear in mind though is that more rpm doesn't necessarily mean more power (it does if torque stays constant, but at idle that's not necessarily a given) - a diesel engine > alternator > traction electronics system has a lot of variables at each stage that doesn't just mean that a faster engine speed is bringing more power out of the generator. It may well just be the case that the engines are run slightly faster so that there's a quicker response once power is actually demanded (turbos a bit more spooled, etc) - but given how quickly the engines rev up from the lower idle speed to the fast idle, I'm not so sure. Or maybe traction electronics that need a higher input frequency than the auxiliary systems do

 

[Efini92]

Is there a clutch disconnecting the generators, or is it just burnt off in the resistor packs or chucked into the coach batteries if the power isn't needed?

Pass that’s beyond my level.
They did give us the the different idle speeds on the course, but they aren’t in the manual.