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What does the TOC head code mean on Realtime trains

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Carrots

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Not done this before so apologies if this is in the wrong place. Help needed,
I have observed on Realtime trains and also on other sites a TOC Headcode which consists of 4 numbers (1710) in this example- this is not the same as the train Headcode or signalling Id:1V62.
I need to understand what this TOC Headcode actually is and where I might be able to get a lockup of this headcode to UID from.
Some trains have it and some don't, any help would be great.

1659079230242.png1659079922131.png
 
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zwk500

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That 4-digit number is the retail service code, used to allocate things like onboard shop sales to the relevant trains. It's primarily an accounting thing. I think it's also the train identifier that handles reservations if enabled. Some TOCs put different info in the 'Headcode' field though, so beware.
 

swt_passenger

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Welcome,

There was a similar question about retail service identity here back in February. It’s not unique and not always used:
 

pompeyfan

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When looking at Waterloo departures the headcode box appears to relate to the old “SR” route codes on the blinds followed by a further 2 numbers.

81 - Portsmouth Harbour
91 - Weymouth
75 - Guildford via Woking stopper etc etc
 

Surreytraveller

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A headcode is the number displayed on the front of a train, primarily on the old Southern Region.
People commonly, but incorrectly, refer to what is called the Train ID, as the headcode
 

greatkingrat

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A headcode is the number displayed on the front of a train, primarily on the old Southern Region.
People commonly, but incorrectly, refer to what is called the Train ID, as the headcode

The term Headcode is used in the Rule Book, so that is as official as you get.
 

zwk500

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A headcode is the number displayed on the front of a train, primarily on the old Southern Region.
People commonly, but incorrectly, refer to what is called the Train ID, as the headcode
Says a lot about the people who run the railway these days
Whilst you're being rather smug, it's worth pointing out the Southern Region was an outlier in displaying a 2-digit headcode. Most other regions displayed the 4-Character Train Reporting Number (now TID) on the front of the train, as their traffic was much more varied in destination and route. Hence the locos and MUs having big 4-Charater display boxes. I'm not sure if it was ever official or not, but the term 'headcode' had been used for the 4-Lamp train classification codes used on the GWR, LMS and LNER, and for the 6-Disc/Lamp routing codes used by the SR. It's therefore entirely reasonable that the continuity has been preserved that the Information that contains the routing and priority information is still called the headcode.
 

Carrots

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The term Headcode is used in the Rule Book, so that is as official as you get.
A headcode is the number displayed on the front of a train, primarily on the old Southern Region.
People commonly, but incorrectly, refer to what is called the Train ID, as the headcode
Thank you for all this but my original question is actually what Real time trains display and an other 3rd party show in the screen shot I added . I understand the Term Headcode and what it is (as in the train ID be it 2 or 4 characters) but this Headcode (see screenshot) is something different and not always shown, this is refering to something different.
The screen shot quite clearly shows the 1V62 as Identity to many this is what you are referring to as the Headcode (commonly used), but on the screen shot you will see the word Headcode or TOC Headcode further down from the 1V62. On my 1st screen shot it shows as 1710. Some have said this is a retail thing for seat reservations. This is what I'm really trying to find out, where does this come from and how I can find a connection between this number and the Train UID and the signaling id which would be as you have mentioned what we all know as the Headcode 1V62.
 

Watershed

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Thank you for all this but my original question is actually what Real time trains display and an other 3rd party show in the screen shot I added . I understand the Term Headcode and what it is (as in the train ID be it 2 or 4 characters) but this Headcode (see screenshot) is something different and not always shown, this is refering to something different.
The screen shot quite clearly shows the 1V62 as Identity to many this is what you are referring to as the Headcode (commonly used), but on the screen shot you will see the word Headcode or TOC Headcode further down from the 1V62. On my 1st screen shot it shows as 1710. Some have said this is a retail thing for seat reservations. This is what I'm really trying to find out, where does this come from and how I can find a connection between this number and the Train UID and the signaling id which would be as you have mentioned what we all know as the Headcode 1V62.
The four digits you refer to are the Retail Service ID. They are unique on any given day for most TOCs, but some TOCs (e.g. Heathrow Express) do duplicate them. They are the code used to identify trains when making seat reservations and thus controlling the sale and price of Advance tickets.

Whilst there are databases where you can search by UID to find the headcode and RSID and vice versa, there is no direct link between the RSID, UID or headcode.

TOCs do tend to follow a pattern when deciding what RSID to use, for example using a certain 'series' for each line/service group and then using odd increments in one direction and evens in the other direction.

But the same RSID could refer to differently timed trains (and thus headcodes) on different days. SWR use the old 'Southern Region' route codes as the first two digits of their RSIDs.

The UID, meanwhile, is simply an internal identification code allocated by Network Rail. There can only be one schedule with a given UID departing on a given date. It's allocated whenever a train is first bid, based on alphabetic order of the headcodes (including the last two letters that aren't published) if several schedules are bid at once, as happens with each new timetable.

Schedules can be added in at different stages which can lead to consecutive trains having UIDs that are seemingly incongruous. But there's no great significance to it, it's just an internal reference number.
 

miklcct

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When looking at Waterloo departures the headcode box appears to relate to the old “SR” route codes on the blinds followed by a further 2 numbers.

81 - Portsmouth Harbour
91 - Weymouth
75 - Guildford via Woking stopper etc etc
For non-reservable services there are only 2 digits, which is the former SR route code itself and shown on the destination blind on the 455 stock.

The four digits you refer to are the Retail Service ID. They are unique on any given day for most TOCs, but some TOCs (e.g. Heathrow Express) do duplicate them. They are the code used to identify trains when making seat reservations and thus controlling the sale and price of Advance tickets.
From what I observe is that, if there are 4 digits in the field, they are taken in the National Rail system to form part of the Retail Service ID, however, if there are only 2 digits, or none, then the 4-digit RSID is generated sequentially without taking the 2 digits into the account, and it can change between timetable revisions.

In SWR, the initial 2 digits of the RSID corresponds to the route code, which are shown on information boards.
 

30907

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Whilst you're being rather smug, it's worth pointing out the Southern Region was an outlier in displaying a 2-digit headcode. Most other regions displayed the 4-Character Train Reporting Number (now TID) on the front of the train, as their traffic was much more varied in destination and route. Hence the locos and MUs having big 4-Charater display boxes. I'm not sure if it was ever official or not, but the term 'headcode' had been used for the 4-Lamp train classification codes used on the GWR, LMS and LNER, and for the 6-Disc/Lamp routing codes used by the SR.
Quite - ISTR "Headsignals" being the official term but I can't access my documents to confirm. Anyway, "same difference" :)
 
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