Euston to Tyndrum Lower/Upper Tyndrum with a 2 Together Railcard

[Coolzac]

Hi guys,

I'm having a tricky time with national rail website. I have a couple of questions-

Firstly, I have found a fare on BRfares that I am unable to find on the national wesbite. It's an off-peak return for £117 each with a two together railcard. Here it is on BRfares : https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=EUS&dest=TYL&grpo=1072&grpd=0443&rlc=2TR&tkt=SVR

However, I can't seem to produce an itinerary on national rail website that creates this fare? Is it actually a ticket that still exists?

Also, we are getting the 4.30 train from Euston to Glasgow and then staying the night. The journey planner says we should get the 5.20 to Tyndrum Lower. However, as you may imagine this is a bit early for us- could we get the next one at 8.21? Or would that contravene the no outward break of journey rule?

Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[Haywain]

Hi guys,

I'm having a tricky time with national rail website. I have a couple of questions-

Firstly, I have found a fare on BRfares that I am unable to find on the national wesbite. It's an off-peak return for £117 each with a two together railcard. Here it is on BRfares : https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=EUS&dest=TYL&grpo=1072&grpd=0443&rlc=2TR&tkt=SVR

However, I can't seem to produce an itinerary on national rail website that creates this fare? Is it actually a ticket that still exists?

Also, we are getting the 4.30 train from Euston to Glasgow and then staying the night. The journey planner says we should get the 5.20 to Tyndrum Lower. However, as you may imagine this is a bit early for us- could we get the next one at 8.21? Or would that contravene the no outward break of journey rule?

Thanks for your help in advance!

I guess there are two problems here. The first is that you can't specify a long break of that nature in (most or all?) journey planners. The second is that is breaches the restriction on the use of the railcard before 09:30.

 

[Coolzac]

I guess there are two problems here. The first is that you can't specify a long break of that nature in (most or all?) journey planners. The second is that is breaches the restriction on the use of the railcard before 09:30.

That's a good point, as i'm starting my journey after 9.30 I forgot about that rule. Would I be able to complete the journey leaving Queen Street after 9.30?

 

[HughT]

You might want to investigate booking the journey as two quite distinct legs (Euston-Glasgow and Glasgow-Tyndrum). I realise this doesn't begin to answer your original question, merely works around the problem!

I've found fares from "the south" (Cambridge in my case) to the West Highland Line to be quite expensive this summer.

 

[XAM2175]

I guess there are two problems here. The first is that you can't specify a long break of that nature in (most or all?) journey planners. The second is that is breaches the restriction on the use of the railcard before 09:30.

That's a good point, as i'm starting my journey after 9.30 I forgot about that rule. Would I be able to complete the journey leaving Queen Street after 9.30?

I have been able to create a one-way itinerary for such a journey using Trainsplit, by setting the advanced options to require a change at Queen Street with 700 extra minutes - but even then it doesn't offer the £117 SVR fare, I suspect because it's interpreting the prohibition on break of journey on the outbound as ruling out waiting for so long at Queen Street that you end up on the third train of the next day. It does however offer the itinerary for £131.25 over five splits, with a £5.75 share of saving. Setting a return pushes the price up dramatically, but since you haven't given us your return itinerary I don't know what options to explore.

 

[Coolzac]

The outward journey is Thursday 4th, and the return will be on Monday 8th. We are doing the return in one day - probably leaving early afternoon.

The best I can do I think is an open off peak to Glasgow from London then an open return from Glasgow to Tyndrum.

 

[philthetube]

I would email a couple of ticket sellers, and ask for suggestions, could be interesting.

 

[Hadders]

This is probably a case where you need to get the relevant reservations from a ticket office.

 

[XAM2175]

The outward journey is Thursday 4th, and the return will be on Monday 8th. We are doing the return in one day - probably leaving early afternoon.

I've managed to get Trainsplit to produce an itinerary of £221.34 total for that, over six splits and using advance tickets for some of the journey. Without splits it's £234.00. It's pretty marginal, given that this:

The best I can do I think is an open off peak to Glasgow from London then an open return from Glasgow to Tyndrum.

... is certainly going to be the easiest, and comes in at £255.90 total (£127.95 each).

 

[pepperpot80]

Ticket type still exists, and should be perfectly valid for the journey suggested.

While the ticket type mentioned by the OP doesn't allow Break of Journey, the railway's working definition of Break of Journey does not include the situation where customers are unable to continue a journey due to not having any forward connections and an overnight stop is necessary.

From the Internal Knowledgebase's definition of Break of Journey:

Off-Peak Return tickets are valid for outward travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following day.

If you cannot complete your journey on the same day you will be allowed to finish it the following day - see 'Break of journey' below.
Customers are not considered to have broken their journey, for the purposes of charging an Excess fare, if:

• They are using station catering, toilets or similar;
• They are changing between terminals in the same town or city;
• They are unable to continue a journey due to not having any forward connections and an overnight stop is necessary.

For my money, the latter point applies.

Further, from the Off Peak Return ticket type's terms and conditions:

Validity
Off-Peak Return tickets are valid for outward travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following day.

If you cannot complete your journey on the same day you will be allowed to finish it the following day - see 'Break of journey' below.

Break of Journey
...
Overnight break of journey - if the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day. Unless otherwise indicated in the relevant restriction code, time restrictions apply as from the initial origin station on both days. The appropriate restrictions for the actual day on which travel is being undertaken apply (for example, it may be that if day 1 is on Sunday, no restrictions apply, but on day 2, the Monday-Friday restrictions apply). All travel must be completed by 04:29 in the morning after this second day.

Starting your journey to Tyndrum at Euston, during the late afternoon, it would be reasonable to expect to walk up, buy this ticket, commence your journey as far as possible, and take an overnight stay. You are then entitled to continue your journey the next day, at a time when your ticket is valid, i.e. after 09:30. There is no requirement to depart at the first available opportunity.

 

[Coolzac]

Ticket type still exists, and should be perfectly valid for the journey suggested.

While the ticket type mentioned by the OP doesn't allow Break of Journey, the railway's working definition of Break of Journey does not include the situation where customers are unable to continue a journey due to not having any forward connections and an overnight stop is necessary.

From the Internal Knowledgebase's definition of Break of Journey:



For my money, the latter point applies.

Further, from the Off Peak Return ticket type's terms and conditions:




Starting your journey to Tyndrum at Euston, during the late afternoon, it would be reasonable to expect to walk up, buy this ticket, commence your journey as far as possible, and take an overnight stay. You are then entitled to continue your journey the next day, at a time when your ticket is valid, i.e. after 09:30. There is no requirement to depart at the first available opportunity.

Thanks for this. I'll ask at the ticket office!

 

[TUC]

There looks to be a more general problem with fares displayed from London to West Highland destinations on the National Rail site.

For example, BRFares offers an Off-Peak Return from London Terminals to Helensburgh Stations, with a Two Together railcard as above, for £106.30 each. I can get the Avanti site to show this fare, for the same dates as the OP used above (and for a 1030 ex-Euston). However, the cheapest that the National Rail site will offer is £285.50 each (made up of a First Class Advance outwards and a Standard Class Advance for the return). Nevertheless, if I select this fare, National Rail then takes me to the Avanti site where the £106.30 return fare is offered!

 

[Coolzac]

Happy to report -

I bought the £117 ticket and had no issues with anyone on either leg of the journey. This morning the ScotRail staff at Queen Street saw ithr ticket as perfectly valid. The Euston barrier staff yesterday were having a joke as they had never heard of Tyndrum, and one of them was from Glasgow!

 

[Haywain]

Happy to report -

I bought the £117 ticket and had no issues with anyone on either leg of the journey. This morning the ScotRail staff at Queen Street saw ithr ticket as perfectly valid. The Euston barrier staff yesterday were having a joke as they had never heard of Tyndrum, and one of them was from Glasgow!

What train did you take to Tyndrum after your overnight break?

 

[Coolzac]

I'm on the 10.36 to Lower Tyndrum as it was the earliest we could take with the two together railcard restrictions.

 

[XAM2175]

Happy to report -

I bought the £117 ticket and had no issues with anyone on either leg of the journey. This morning the ScotRail staff at Queen Street saw ithr ticket as perfectly valid. The Euston barrier staff yesterday were having a joke as they had never heard of Tyndrum, and one of them was from Glasgow!

Excellent!

 

[Hadders]

Scotrail staff are normally knowledgeable and relaxed about this sort of thing.

I doubt it’s be the same if you were doing the journey the other way round and the 2nd days travel was with Avanti.