Class 379 Miscellanea

[notadriver]

Just a couple of observations. The class 378s have a detrainment light when the front ladder is used in an emergency egress situation. It's possible this light serves the same purpose.

In terms of installed traction power and therefore performance I am a bit disappointed
Class 360 Desiros (and their Class 350 Cousins) have an installed power of 1550 kW. This according to http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/dewiki/en/TOPS-Klasse_360 gives them an impressive acceleration rate of 0.94 m/s ²

According to http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... 379/class 379 nxea/b consultation notice.pdf

Installed power on a class 379 is 1200 KW giving a 0.65 m/s per second acceleration rate. This differs from other Electrostars as they have 1500 KW installed power. So what's happened? Well the 6 traction motors are the same ones the class 378 uses and are only rated at 200 KW. Class 357/375/377s are rated at 250 KW each. Incidentally the class 378s benefit as they are geared for 75 mph and instead of 6, are fitted with 9 traction motors each of 200 KW giving a theoretical 1800 KW making them the most powerful suburban EMU!

 

[O L Leigh]

Just a couple of observations. The class 378s have a detrainment light when the front ladder is used in an emergency egress situation. It's possible this light serves the same purpose.

Nope. The purpose of this light has already been discussed and confirmed.

In terms of installed traction power and therefore performance I am a bit disappointed.

I'm not, and I will have to drive them. You don't need all the power in a Cl317 to keep time, so you certainly don't need a unit powerful enough to spin the planet backwards to replace them. The Cl378's are designed for a totally different purpose and the only way to accelerate their timings is to work on point-to-point performance.

O L Leigh

 

[87015]

Will they get fed out onto occasional services ahead of the big launch/timetable changes in May?

Yes - from mid to late March they'll be in passenger service by current estimations.
Subject to this that and the other of course.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Yes - from mid to late March they'll be in passenger service by current estimations.
Subject to this that and the other of course.

Does anybody know how many train sets have been delivered (apologies if this is discussed on another thread)?

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

001 and 002 are at Ilford. I've heard 003 is at Litchurch Lane ready to come south, but apparently it won't be leaving just yet. I've heard that there's a fault on 002 that's caused it to fail a few times, and until its worked out what's causing the fault, nothing else will be leaving. That way, Bombardier can rectify further trains before they leave Derby.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

001 and 002 are at Ilford. I've heard 003 is at Litchurch Lane ready to come south, but apparently it won't be leaving just yet. I've heard that there's a fault on 002 that's caused it to fail a few times, and until its worked out what's causing the fault, nothing else will be leaving. That way, Bombardier can rectify further trains before they leave Derby.

So it looks unlikely that "they" will be in passenger service by "mid to late March" then. One might be, but I'm not sure whether it's practical for a TOC to drip feed a new fleet into service, is it?

 

[jopsuk]

if they're not retiring units, and not upgrading the timetable, then as long as some careful diagramming is done to ensure only trained drivers are scheduled for that diagram I don't see why they can't be "drip fed"- it would be a classic "soft launch" before the big publicity launch

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

The West Anglia timetable is being upgraded. There's still a lot of 4 car services in the peak on the inner WA services which are to be strengthened; services to and from Stratford, Chingford, Enfield Town and Cheshunt.
The 'stopper' as we call it, or the slow service from Stratford to Stansted is being scrapped, and being replaced with two trains an hour from Stratford to Bishops Stortford which will be great! There are also plans to run a 'faster' hourly off peak Cambridge service calling at Whittlesford Parkway, Audley End, Bishops Stortford, Tottenham Hale and Liv St using the 379's.
Also, an additional service is planned to run from Stansted Airport to Ely on the opposite half hour from what the CrossCountry service leaves. I assume the same stops (Audley End and Cambridge), also with a 379 I believe.
They also plan to improve the Stansted Express journey time by looping the Hertford East services at Broxbourne which will apparently add 3-4 minutes to the Hertfords journey. I can only see that being beneficial on the up working, because as soon as the down Hertford leaves Broxbourne, it branches off.

No idea whats being implemented in May or December, although I think the Ely and Fast Cambridge services will be December as from May, the 379's are supposed to be primarily for the Stansted Express. But, we'll see how long that lasts!!

 

[jopsuk]

I know about the proposed May changes- but adding lots of extra services at the same time as introducing new stock, stock that's needed for those services, is fraught with danger- which is why it's sensible (if possible) to get the units in traffic before then. Test runs are all very well, but contact with the general public can throw up problems you might not be able to predict...

 

[jon0844]

What's this? A new Bombardier train that has problems that might need to be fixed before more roll out? Surely not!!

 

[DjU]

What's this? A new train that has problems that might need to be fixed before more roll out? Surely not!!

Fixed.

 

[O L Leigh]

I think the reason for not delivering more and more units as they roll of the production line is due to the programme for testing and driver training. 001 and 002 are being used for type-testing and de-bugging while apparently 003 and 004 will go into storage meaning the next unit to arrive at Ilford should be 005.

Then there is the driver training aspect. Drivers are going up to the Academy at Stratford for a 4 day conversion course which includes time on the Cl379 simulator. However, even at the end of that drivers will not "sign" these units until they have completed 3 (?) days of practical handling and orientation on the units themselves. However, the majority are still to go to the Academy and those that were among the first to be trained are likely to need a traction refresher due to the length of time between the classroom course and the practical handling.

My suspicion is that introducing these units into service before May is ambitious. Currently 001 and 002 have reliability issues and are still under the care of Bombardier with DBS drivers until such time as they have completed the testing programme and no more units are being released. Some of our minder drivers have been up to Derby presumably for training ahead of the practical handling stage but they reported that 003 just kept sitting down and refusing to play ball, so clearly there are issues still to be addressed. The driver training programme is therefore currently stalled with no WA drivers who currently officially "sign" these units, and things will remain that way until Bombardier release a unit to us for the practical handling to commence.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

Fixed.

The post below yours seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[317666]

From my experience, the evening 'fast' Cambridge services from Liverpool Street on a Saturday, (especially the 1828 and 1928) ought to be 8 cars instead of 4, as there are normally people standing until Bishops Stortford, so hopefully the upgraded timetable will include this.

 

[delt1c]

Seen the 379's a couple of times on test runs and they do look good. As a commuter on the Lea Valley services I look forward to the strengthening of the services by the cascaded 317's. One point though what services wil the 317/7's be put on, surely these would be wasted on the Hertfords or inner workings , although they have appeared quite regularly lately, would make sense to keep them for the non 379 Cambridge services.
Will we see an end to 315's on the Hertfords and Stratford services?

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

Unfortunately, I think the sub classes of the 317's will make as much difference in the future as they do now, and that's sweet FA. Whilst I'd like to see them on 'nicer' services such as Cambridge where the punters treat the train with a bit more respect, I doubt it'll happen. Ilford and the Unit Controllers see a 317 as a 317, rather than a /5, /6, /7 or /8.

Yes we should in theory see an end to booked 315 workings on the Lea Valley but I'm sure we'll see them every now and again.

 

[87015]

No idea whats being implemented in May or December, although I think the Ely and Fast Cambridge services will be December as from May, the 379's are supposed to be primarily for the Stansted Express. But, we'll see how long that lasts!!

All the West Anglia timetable changes are from December 2011. From May the 379s will begin to drop out onto Stansteds directly replacing the 317/7s and 317/8s on those diagrams, in theory those 317s are then spare until December.

 

[DjU]

The post below yours seems to suggest otherwise.

No, I was saying I 'fixed' what you said in your post.

 

[slick]

Information via NX Train planning, so far there is ONE scheduled 379 service planned into the May timetable/diagram changes in the evening. To say im a bit underwhelmed is an understatement, lets hope between now and May that changes as everywhere else seems to think including me by august there will be a full fleet out. Hopefully as was mentioned above they will drop them out like for like.

Im also in regular contact with my original DI who is currently in Derby with Bombardier and as O L Leigh has pointed out other DI's and a few DM's getting hands on experience with the units. Any other WA drivers on here we can look forward to putting the brakes into step2 and something actually happening for once when it decides to actually move.

 

[notadriver]

I will be very interested to know how the 379s compare with the 360s

 

[Aictos]

Seen the 379's a couple of times on test runs and they do look good. As a commuter on the Lea Valley services I look forward to the strengthening of the services by the cascaded 317's. One point though what services wil the 317/7's be put on, surely these would be wasted on the Hertfords or inner workings , although they have appeared quite regularly lately, would make sense to keep them for the non 379 Cambridge services.
Will we see an end to 315's on the Hertfords and Stratford services?

May 2011/Dec 2011 NXEA Timetable Consultation


extend a number of other peak West Anglia services to 8 carriages (from 4 now) on the lines to Enfield, Chingford, Hertford and Bishop’s Stortford

Would this mean more 317s on the Hertfords?

 

[O L Leigh]

I will be very interested to know how the 379s compare with the 360s

No driver who signs one for mainline passenger use will sign the other, so a meaningful comparison would be impossible.

O L Leigh

 

[captainbigun]

If they spend as much time sat down as the 377s then I don't think comparison will be hard! 378s weren't great either....half of Willesden was full of Bombardier staff on their laptops during introduction! The local staff didn't have many good words to say either!

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

May 2011/Dec 2011 NXEA Timetable Consultation


extend a number of other peak West Anglia services to 8 carriages (from 4 now) on the lines to Enfield, Chingford, Hertford and Bishop’s Stortford

Would this mean more 317s on the Hertfords?

The only extra 317's that would go on Hertfords are the ones from Stratford in the peaks. 4 317's would be required to strengthen those services. The ones from Liverpool Street are already 8 cars.

 

[notadriver]

No driver who signs one for mainline passenger use will sign the other, so a meaningful comparison would be impossible.

O L Leigh

Do you know if the class 321s are used on both West and East Anglia services as I think they are similar to 317s performance wise.

 

[Aictos]

Do you know if the class 321s are used on both West and East Anglia services as I think they are similar to 317s performance wise.

I thought the 321s were only used on the Great Eastern lines and not the West Anglia lines except of course for the former 322s when they were used on the Stansted Express.

 

[87015]

I thought the 321s were only used on the Great Eastern lines and not the West Anglia lines except of course for the former 322s when they were used on the Stansted Express.

321s worked the Cambridge line when new, moved to GE only long ago.

 

[O L Leigh]

The intention was that the Cl321's were for the West Anglia side and were introduced onto these services from new when the WA first started to go over to DOO. However, it was quickly discovered that they were not compatible with "look back" working due to the cab layout and so were transferred to the Great Eastern side and more suitable Cl317's were introduced instead as they were cascaded to Hornsey from the Euston lines.

O L Leigh

 

[Kingfisher200262]

The intention was that the Cl321's were for the West Anglia side and were introduced onto these services from new when the WA first started to go over to DOO. However, it was quickly discovered that they were not compatible with "look back" working due to the cab layout and so were transferred to the Great Eastern side and more suitable Cl317's were introduced instead as they were cascaded to Hornsey from the Euston lines.

O L Leigh

That's very interesting, and something I didn't know. Is that why the Class 322s, which are similar to a 321, and used to work the Stansted Express were taken off and moved to Scotland?

 

[Big Chris]

That's very interesting, and something I didn't know. Is that why the Class 322s, which are similar to a 321, and used to work the Stansted Express were taken off and moved to Scotland?

They were moved off when Stanstead Express become more popular and a capacity increase was needed.