2022 Conservative Leadership Election - Liz Truss chosen as party leader (and subsequent reshuffle)

[Western Sunset]

The House of Lords beckons...

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The House of Lords beckons...

Saves Liz having to tell her she hasn't got a job anymore but its a joke how PMs are allowed to reward people like this.

 

[Busaholic]

Saves Liz having to tell her she hasn't got a job anymore but its a joke how PMs are allowed to reward people like this.

It's a lot, lot worse than a joke, and helps make our Parliament the laughing (rather, crying) stock of the Western world.

 

[Gloster]

It's a lot, lot worse than a joke, and helps make our Parliament the laughing (rather, crying) stock of the Western world.

And, as I mentioned in #703, the current lot are looking at creating an unusually large number of lords and getting them to agree to support the government.

 

[Busaholic]

And, as I mentioned in #703, the current lot are looking at creating an unusually large number of lords and getting them to agree to support the government.

And we pontificated about Trump undermining democracy in the U.S.

 

[brad465]

And, as I mentioned in #703, the current lot are looking at creating an unusually large number of lords and getting them to agree to support the government.

I saw an interesting suggestion that Johnson is doing this to try and undermine his successor, because the highly controversial NI Protocol Bill is now at the Lord's stage, and if signed into law it is believed to risk a trade war that would damage the Government's credibility, but the Lord's are likely to block it without 50 new peers bound to back it.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And we pontificated about Trump undermining democracy in the U.S.

Indeed he was just up front about whilst the UK establishment just whirl away in the background silently undermining our democracy

 

[XAM2175]

And, as I mentioned in #703, the current lot are looking at creating an unusually large number of lords and getting them to agree to support the government.

I saw an interesting suggestion that Johnson is doing this to try and undermine his successor, because the highly controversial NI Protocol Bill is now at the Lord's stage, and if signed into law it is believed to risk a trade war that would damage the Government's credibility, but the Lord's are likely to block it without 50 new peers bound to back it.

From the pen of no less than Mr Brown himself:

Boris Johnson is planning to fill the Lords with his cronies and legitimise bribery | Gordon Brown

The honours system is rife with abuse and a paper by Lynton Crosby’s firm suggesting ‘rewards’ for compliant peers proves it, says former prime minister Gordon Brown

www.theguardian.com

 

[Cloud Strife]

And, as I mentioned in #703, the current lot are looking at creating an unusually large number of lords and getting them to agree to support the government.

Doing that would almost certainly mean a broad agreement in the next parliament to abolish the Lords and to replace it with a democratically elected Upper chamber with PR. If the Lords tried to block it, then they would almost certainly simply pack the Lords with their own peers in order to ensure a majority.

It's a good example of how Johnson is simply wrecking the Tories for his own agenda. They will not gain in the medium-long term from packing the Lords in this way, but rather lose very badly.

 

[brad465]

Johnson not impressed with his departure, even at his Wedding reception:

Johnson says his removal was a 'great stitch-up'

The prime minister joked he had received “masses of letters to resign, mostly from my closest family” at the wedding.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Boris Johnson used a party speech celebrating his wedding to bemoan moves against him as prime minister of the United Kingdom.

The PM joked that his removal from No 10 was the “greatest stitch-up since the Bayeux Tapestry” in a speech at a party on Saturday.

Carrie Johnson, his wife, also delivered what was described by one guest as a “touchingly funny speech” that was “full of affection” for the prime minister.

The couple were later joined on the dance floor by Wilf, their two-year-old son, guests told The Times.

 

[Typhoon]

Johnson not impressed with his departure, even at his Wedding reception:

Johnson says his removal was a 'great stitch-up'

The prime minister joked he had received “masses of letters to resign, mostly from my closest family” at the wedding.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

It may have been a stitch up but Johnson provided the needle and the thread.

How many ministers resigned? How many MPs voted against him in the June vote of confidence? He needed to read the runes.

I assume it was celebrating their first year of marriage, for which the traditional gift is paper. If invited, I would have given him a copy of the book 'The Assault on Truth' by Peter Oborne. I am part way through Chapter 2 ('The 2019 Election: One Lie after Another') and I am already at the 'I'd forgotten about that' stage.

For those for whom the author is unknown, he describes himself as a middle-of-the-road Conservative who supported Brexit but resigned from the party in 2019, unable to support them in the 2019 election.

 

[jfollows]

Liz Truss has promised to "liberate" farmers from red tape and all that, I though Boris Johnson promised that already and was supposed to have delivered it? Rishi Sunak promises to fine anyone who doesn't turn up for an NHS appointment, not going to happen, I can't see GPs signing up to it in any way. All fantasy stories which nobody in their right mind would place any faith in ......

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2022 ==

NB Ballot papers being delivered today, so the stuff Truss & Sunak are doing presumably gets less and less important. I'm not one of this electorate, but I know from experience that when I have a postal vote I tend to return it as soon as I can.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2022 ==

I assume it was celebrating their first year of marriage, for which the traditional gift is paper. If invited, I would have given him a copy of the book 'The Assault on Truth' by Peter Oborne. I am part way through Chapter 2 ('The 2019 Election: One Lie after Another') and I am already at the 'I'd forgotten about that' stage.

It was in lieu of a celebration at the time of their marriage in May 2021 which didn't happen because of Covid-19.

 

[TwoYellas]

Let's not forget that Russia put their nuclear deterrent on high alert after Truss's remarks when she was foreign secretary. Whilst primary blame for the conflict is Putin's and his inner circle - I do hope whoever writes LT's scripts is a little more careful and that she just sticks to reading it and spares us her thoughts.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Aug 2022 ==

I assume it was celebrating their first year of marriage, for which the traditional gift is paper. If invited, I would have given him a copy of the book 'The Assault on Truth' by Peter Oborne. I am part way through Chapter 2 ('The 2019 Election: One Lie after Another') and I am already at the 'I'd forgotten about that' stage.

For those for whom the author is unknown, he describes himself as a middle-of-the-road Conservative who supported Brexit but resigned from the party in 2019, unable to support them in the 2019 election.

Now this is a conservative with integrity. Maybe why many haven't heard of him.

 

[MikeWM]

Now this is a conservative with integrity. Maybe why many haven't heard of him.

I agree with that, I've got a lot of respect for Oborne. He and Peter Hitchens were about the only two 'conservative' journalists I followed even back when I was (mostly) a Corbyn-supporting socialist (all of three years ago!).

 

[jfollows]

Sunak is going to "cut income tax by 20%", in other words he's going to reduce the base rate from 20% to 16%, and "cut by 20%" sounds a lot better than "cut by 4%" doesn't it?

 

[TwoYellas]

I agree with that, I've got a lot of respect for Oborne. He and Peter Hitchens were about the only two 'conservative' journalists I followed even back when I was (mostly) a Corbyn-supporting socialist (all of three years ago!).

Nothing wrong with Mr Corbyn (Jeremy that is, not Piers lol). They had a good social democratic program and wanted a nuclear free world. Vilified by the press after gains in 2017 (when they realised he could win) because he was going to get the very rich to pay their fair share of tax and push for a more ethical foreign policy. Saying he was a traitor was rubbish - he realised you've got to talk to resolve conflicts (which everyone does in the end) and others sometimes have valid grievances. If the media really held power to account they'll tell people that Gov'ts speak to and actually support much, much worse.

The criticism of him I'd make is he didn't fight his corner enough in front of the cameras, so perhaps if he was more bullish like union boss Mick Lynch - then he could have addressed the lies. But I'll leave it at that as don't want to go off topic too much.

 

[jfollows]

I'm also amused by how both Truss and Sunak have to be shown as enthusiastic supports of the women's football, simply because I couldn't give a stuff about it but wonder if I'd been in their place whether I'd have been able to say so. They could well be genuinely enthused, I've no problem with that.

 

[MikeWM]

Nothing wrong with Mr Corbyn (Jeremy that is, not Piers lol). They had a good social democratic program and wanted a nuclear free world. Vilified by the press after gains in 2017 (when they realised he could win) because he was going to get the very rich to pay their fair share of tax and push for a more ethical foreign policy. Saying he was a traitor was rubbish - he realised you've got to talk to resolve conflicts (which everyone does in the end) and others sometimes have valid grievances. If the media really held power to account they'll tell people that Gov'ts speak to and actually support much, much worse.

The criticism of him I'd make is he didn't fight his corner enough in front of the cameras, so perhaps if he was more bullish like union boss Mick Lynch - then he could have addressed the lies. But I'll leave it at that as don't want to go off topic too much.

I'd agree with pretty much all of that.

What I think is rather important to realise is that the hatchet job that was done on Corbyn by the media, was more recently echoed very closely in the hatchet job that was done on Johnson by the media. Of course they were very different people with very different ideas and very different personalities, but the one thing they had in common was a desire to go beyond the ever-narrowing boundaries of 'acceptable opinion'. If you're on the left, you may complain about what happened to Corbyn while welcoming the same thing happening to Johnson, and if you're on the right then vice-versa, but actually we should find both deeply problematic. I want to see political debate on policies, but we're very far away from that kind of thing nowadays.

 

[TwoYellas]

I'd agree with pretty much all of that.

What I think is rather important to realise is that the hatchet job that was done on Corbyn by the media, was more recently echoed very closely in the hatchet job that was done on Johnson by the media. Of course they were very different people with very different ideas and very different personalities, but the one thing they had in common was a desire to go beyond the ever-narrowing boundaries of 'acceptable opinion'. If you're on the left, you may complain about what happened to Corbyn while welcoming the same thing happening to Johnson, and if you're on the right then vice-versa, but actually we should find both deeply problematic. I want to see political debate on policies, but we're very far away from that kind of thing nowadays.

A free independent press is required. Not one that is concentrated in the hands of a few billionaires with their own agenda.

It beggars belief how so many are willing to believe the propaganda.

 

[Typhoon]

Now this is a conservative with integrity. Maybe why many haven't heard of him.

Also because he appears to have been frozen out of certain media outlets seemingly because of some of the articles he has written such as:

British journalists have become part of Johnson’s fake news machine. It’s chilling. From the Mail, The Times to the BBC and ITN, everyone is peddling Downing Street’s lies and smears. They’re turning their readers into dupes.

From https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/op...ve-become-part-of-johnsons-fake-news-machine/

I can sort out Oborne's (and similar journalists') slant on matters when they are based on truth, it is when what I am told is fiction, that there is a problem. I had never heard of 'Full fact' until about 18 months ago, now it is a regular port of call.

 

[Gloster]

I had never heard of 'Full fact' until about 18 months ago, now it is a regular port of call.

I frequently look at Full fact (.fullfact.org) as one of the few unbiased sources of information, even though it only covers a limited number of matters.

 

[jfollows]

A free independent press is required. Not one that is concentrated in the hands of a few billionaires with their own agenda.

It beggars belief how so many are willing to believe the propaganda.

Whilst true, and probably demonstrates how many gullible people there are, it's not that hard if you understand where they're coming from - I mean, I tend to read The Guardian but I don't confuse its articles with reality either, in the same way I (don't generally) read The Mail.

 

[Busaholic]

What I think is rather important to realise is that the hatchet job that was done on Corbyn by the media, was more recently echoed very closely in the hatchet job that was done on Johnson by the media. Of course they were very different people with very different ideas and very different personalities, but the one thing they had in common was a desire to go beyond the ever-narrowing boundaries of 'acceptable opinion'. If you're on the left, you may complain about what happened to Corbyn while welcoming the same thing happening to Johnson, and if you're on the right then vice-versa, but actually we should find both deeply problematic. I want to see political debate on policies, but we're very far away from that kind of thing nowadays.

I can't agree with you there. The assault on Corbyn was, in reality, an attempt to make Labour unelectable whomsoever was in control of the party. Corbyn was only ever going to be representative of a narrow section of the Labour Party, and once he'd been held responsible for the terrible 2019 General Election result it was inevitable he'd be sent packing, but most of the media would still claim Starmer, or any other elected leader, was a dangerous 'leftie' who'd drag this country down to its lowest level ever. Instead, they let the Conservatives do that job with little demur on their part, even the BBC being so scared of their financial 'masters' that they regularly ignore or downplay some of the dastardly deeds of Johnson and co. It was only when the right wing, and 'soft' right like the Spectator magazine, could see that Johnson was growing into a huge electoral liability that they started the process of getting rid of him. Unfortunately for them (and disastrously for us!), Johnson, like Trump, was never going to go easily or voluntarily, and will throw every spanner into the works, and damn the country.

 

[MikeWM]

I can't agree with you there. The assault on Corbyn was, in reality, an attempt to make Labour unelectable whomsoever was in control of the party. Corbyn was only ever going to be representative of a narrow section of the Labour Party, and once he'd been held responsible for the terrible 2019 General Election result it was inevitable he'd be sent packing, but most of the media would still claim Starmer, or any other elected leader, was a dangerous 'leftie' who'd drag this country down to its lowest level ever. Instead, they let the Conservatives do that job with little demur on their part, even the BBC being so scared of their financial 'masters' that they regularly ignore or downplay some of the dastardly deeds of Johnson and co. It was only when the right wing, and 'soft' right like the Spectator magazine, could see that Johnson was growing into a huge electoral liability that they started the process of getting rid of him. Unfortunately for them (and disastrously for us!), Johnson, like Trump, was never going to go easily or voluntarily, and will throw every spanner into the works, and damn the country.

There are always some parts of the media that are going to be tribal, indeed. I don't see the Daily Express ever supporting Starmer, nor the Daily Mirror supporting the next Conservative leader.

But I don't think it is just about being 'tribal', it is about fitting in the Overton window too, and that window appears to grow ever narrower.

The key question here is *why* did Johnson suddenly become an electoral liability? He didn't change, his behaviour didn't change, but the way the media reported on him very much did change. We can speculate as to why that was, and the fact that it appeared to start around the time that he refused to lockdown the country again in December 2021, and whether those things are related or not, but the fact is he certainly wasn't an electoral liability as recently as May 2021 when the Tories won Darlington Hartlepool by a massive amount. Things changed very quickly, but one thing that didn't was Johnson or his character.

 

[Gloster]

May 2021 when the Tories won Darlington by a massive amount.

Hartlepool or Darlington?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It beggars belief how so many are willing to believe the propaganda.

And you personally are immune to propaganda, right? There's no danger of you - say - believing any left-wing propaganda?

 

[MikeWM]

Hartlepool or Darlington?

Err, yes, Hartlepool I'll fix that, thanks!

 

[bspahh]

A free independent press is required. Not one that is concentrated in the hands of a few billionaires with their own agenda.

A free press doesn't come cheap. If you want professional journalism, you might need to pay for it.

 

[AlterEgo]

A free independent press is required. Not one that is concentrated in the hands of a few billionaires with their own agenda.

It beggars belief how so many are willing to believe the propaganda.

Sorry I can't take you seriously when you yourself are quite willing to use Putin's own military propaganda to buttress your political position, like this:

Let's not forget that Russia put their nuclear deterrent on high alert after Truss's remarks when she was foreign secretary.

This just renders you credulous at best and bad faith at worst I'm afraid.

 

[gg1]

The key question here is *why* did Johnson suddenly become an electoral liability? He didn't change, his behaviour didn't change, but the way the media reported on him very much did change. We can speculate as to why that was, and the fact that it appeared to start around the time that he refused to lockdown the country again in December 2021, and whether those things are related or not, but the fact is he certainly wasn't an electoral liability as recently as May 2021 when the Tories won Darlington by a massive amount. Things changed very quickly, but one thing that didn't was Johnson or his character.

December 2021 was when partygate broke.

It's true he has a long history of lying and ignoring the rules but this was a step beyond anything he'd done previously, compounded by his gross hypocrisy due to the fact that the rules he was breaking were the very same ones he had repeatedly gone on national TV and told us all we must follow. Crucially he managed to anger people across the political spectrum and irrespective of where they stood on Covid policy.