Avanti West Coast cancellations

[CAF397]

Define 'routinely'? Until this latest dispute, when was ASLEF last on strike?

 

[Efini92]

Not really, whilst ASLEF is perfectly happy to routinely almost close the railway even during important events like the Commonwealth Games all those cosy agreements that result in drivers being treated with kid gloves should at the very least be suspended .

It’s no wonder @43066 is always calling you out. You don’t half come out with rubbish. What are these agreements you speak of?

 

[SJN]

Not really, whilst ASLEF is perfectly happy to routinely almost close the railway even during important events like the Commonwealth Games all those cosy agreements that result in drivers being treated with kid gloves should at the very least be suspended .

Drivers are not obliged to work rest days. How is refusing to work on a rest day related to any agreement that supposedly treats them with kid gloves?

 

[Carlisle]

Define 'routinely'? Until this latest dispute, when was ASLEF last on strike?

Indeed, that’s why I was only advocating suspending favourable agreements & concessions & nothing harsher, unofficial action can amount to more that just not working rest days

 

[Bletchleyite]

Blimey, that's a big statement to make.

It is potentially libellous. I wonder will the Unions sue?

But that aside, it is a flimsy excuse. Implement a workable emergency timetable. Stop making excuses.

Is Avanti the worst London based IC TOC ever? (Not serving London XC retain the mediocrity crown).

 

[SJN]

Indeed, that’s why I was only advocating suspending favourable agreements & concessions & nothing harsher, unofficial action can amount to more that just not working rest days

How would suspending any agreements, maybe you could give an example of one, encourage people to work overtime?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Out of interest, did Virgin ever have an industrial dispute of this magnitude when they operated the franchise?

The government’s grip of the TOCs, I feel, genuinely might lead to the collapse of privatised rail under the Williams plan before it even started! You can’t help but think that the operator would’ve thrown a load of money at recruitment (a la GWR previously), and cut the timetable until it was sorted. Simple, workable and equally doesn’t trash your reputation in the first place.

The fact that the PR team thought that was the message to send out is baffling - especially as Avanti’s PR has previously been ‘let’s just do what Virgin did’

 

[D1537]

It is potentially libellous. I wonder will the Unions sue?

ASLEF's Mick Whelan on Twitter

Please remove your lies there is no unofficial strike action taking place, we reserve the right to deal with this legally

 

[Carlisle]

Out of interest, did Virgin ever have an industrial dispute of this magnitude when they operated the franchise?

Yes they had a couple of weeks towards the end of their franchise when ASLEF got upset over a rest day work agreement resulting in a large number of delays & cancellations

 

[Agent_Squash]

Yes they had a couple of weeks towards the end of their franchise when ASLEF got upset over a rest day work agreement resulting in a large number of delays & cancellations

Seriously don’t remember it being this bad… Virgin ended on a high note in terms of staff if I recall? Or was that the glossy PR material!

 

[Carlisle]

Seriously don’t remember it being this bad… Virgin ended on a high note in terms of staff if I recall? Or was that the glossy PR material!

It wasn’t too bad, only a weekend or two got seriously disrupted.

 

[D1537]

The banner notice has disappeared from Avanti's web site. The Tweet is still there at the moment.

Edit: I'm wrong, it's still there. It's moved to a red dropdown at the top of the page, rather than a big yellow box.

 

[43066]

Indeed, that’s why I was only advocating suspending favourable agreements & concessions & nothing harsher, unofficial action can amount to more that just not working rest days

Since you’re apparently quite the expert on the Ts and Cs of train drivers, can you please cite one such “favourable agreement”?

I have a sneaking suspicion that you’re making things up again…

 

[Agent_Squash]

It wasn’t too bad, only a weekend or two got seriously disrupted.

So it wasn’t of the same magnitude at all… and they certainly didn’t try and blame it on the drivers taking unofficial action!

 

[Bertie the bus]

I’m afraid Virgin don’t get off that lightly. It was them who increased their driver’s wages to such an extent that they could have a very comfortable life without working overtime but whilst increasing their pay didn’t bring Sunday inside the working week. How could anybody not see that someone on £65K+ doesn’t need to work overtime? I’m guessing they probably could but didn’t care because they wouldn’t have to deal with the long term fallout.

 

[Sputnik89]

I’m afraid Virgin don’t get off that lightly. It was them who increased their driver’s wages to such an extent that they could have a very comfortable life without working overtime but whilst increasing their pay didn’t bring Sunday inside the working week. How could anybody not see that someone on £65K+ doesn’t need to work overtime? I’m guessing they probably could but didn’t care because they wouldn’t have to deal with the long term fallout.

The idea that overtime SHOULD be necessary to have a comfortable salary is... bizarre.

 

[Pinus contorta]

When did Chris Green leave as boss? He knew how to run a railway. It all started to go downhill after that for Virgin Trains didn't it?

 

[Bertie the bus]

The idea that overtime SHOULD be necessary to have a comfortable salary is... bizarre.

You have deliberately misinterpreted what I wrote. No intelligent person could possibly interpret it that way.

 

[Carlisle]

So it wasn’t of the same magnitude at all… and they certainly didn’t try and blame it on the drivers taking unofficial action!

As I thought I suggested previously, the disruption was of similar magnitude, but only lasted about a fortnight, so Virgin were in able to hush it up, simple as that .

 

[duncanp]

Avanti have just tweeted

Due to unofficial strike action by train drivers, we are expecting multiple short-notice cancellations until further notice. Please check your journey on our website before coming to the station and be prepared for very busy services. Sorry for the inconvenience this will cause.

https://twitter.com/AvantiWestCoast/status/1553658524391161857?t=7nebsGFEZCvhOS_LlzcAoQ&s=19

It seems to me that management and unions at Avanti are fighting amongst themselves and couldn't give a flying **** about their customers, on whom their business and employment ultimately depend.

 

[Retorus]

Not really, whilst ASLEF is perfectly happy to routinely almost close the railway even during important events like the Commonwealth Games all those cosy agreements that result in drivers being treated with kid gloves should at the very least be suspended .

You don't think a potentially libellous statement is a big one to make?

 

[duncanp]

You don't think a potentially libellous statement is a big one to make?

If the dispute is not settled soon, the government should step in and strip Avanti of its franchise and send in an operator of last resort.

Other long distance operators like LNER are not having these problems, so what is the issue with Avanti.

Perhaps a change of management is the only thing that will get the dispute settled now.

 

[Wolfie]

Some terrible feedback from Avanti's perspective on Twitter such as:

"Your disgrace of a company has ruined my entire weekend and will be costing me hundreds of pounds in cancellation costs for restaurants etc everyone in this country should hate and despise Avanti for the crooks that they are"

Frankly the comedians running an utter shower of crap don't give a flying.... Notable how they never have "meet the manager" anymore. They'd be lynched.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2022 ==

He/she sounds a tad grumpy.

Perhaps TOCs should be made liable for consequential losses...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2022 ==

Not sure why the staff would be ashamed of themselves but hey-Ho, he’s really going into raving rant mode.

Who can blame him? Do you think that he would support ANY payrises for rail staff?

 

[Watershed]

You don't think a potentially libellous statement is a big one to make?

I struggle to see how it could be defamatory, given that it doesn't relate to any particular person, and doesn't cause "serious harm" to anyone's reputation. Avanti also aren't suggesting that ASLEF are behind this.

It's certainly a rather 'strong' message - but hardly out of keeping with the barbs the unions have been trading over recent months! Funny how when the boot is on the other foot...

 

[dk1]

Who can blame him? Do you think that he would support ANY payrises for rail staff?

Maybe yes now hes hopefully calmed down bit.

 

[Wolfie]

I don’t think good old Grant cares. Considering what he lets GTR get away with on his own line.

seriously reading this thread is concerning. Planning a trip to Manchester. LNER seems a safe bet. Crossing the pennies could be a challenge. Maybe best drive. no wonder the railways are struggling when you dare not use many TOC. Particularly at weekends when you either have mass cancellations or unable to physically board (or both)

I wonder how much Virgin had to do with this problem. Why recruit when you have lost the franchise. GTR always blamed the last operator(s)

Re your last para, rather like Ministers who have been in power for a decade plus still trying to blame the last Government, just how long can a TOC continue to blame it's predecessor and when should it start to take responsibility. Was it Virgin's choice to accept a massively reduced emergency timetable and then still fail utterly and completely to deliver it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jul 2022 ==

Maybe yes now hes hopefully calmed down bit.

I seriously doubt it. He probably wants you all sacked.

 

[dk1]

I seriously doubt it. He probably wants you all sacked.

That wouldn't be a very nice attitude to have.

 

[Wolfie]

That wouldn't be a very nice attitude to have.

If l was in that situation l would feel that the railway had basically said 'eff you' and would reciprocate in spades.

 

[krus_aragon]

The idea that overtime SHOULD be necessary to have a comfortable salary is... bizarre.

I've known people in other industries to rely on overtime and/or annual bonuses to make ends meet. It's less-than-ideal, but there we go.

 

[dk1]

If l was in that situation l would feel that the railway had basically said 'eff you' and would reciprocate in spades.

Best to just let it go. No point getting all worked up about something that cant be changed now.