Blackpool No.1 bus frequency reductions are causing pressure on Blackpool trams

[davehsug]

I see there's going to be more pressure on the tram service, as Blackpool Transport are cutting the no:1 bus to hourly, due to driver shortges. There are going to be some fed up out of town pensioners having to shell out for tram fares/passes.


https://www.blackpooltransport.com/service-1-frequency-change

We are making the tough decision to reduce the frequency on Service 1 to every 60 minutes from Sunday 31 July.

This change will impact the least amount of customers as possible because there is an almost direct replacement service by using the tram. By making this change, the rest of our bus network will remain unaffected and continue running to our advertised timetables.

 

[mmh]

I see there's going to be more pressure on the tram service, as Blackpool Transport are cutting the no:1 bus to hourly, due to driver shortges. There are going to be some fed up out of town pensioners having to shell out for tram fares/passes.

That's not good, the no 1 is the bus I use most often when in Blackpool. I'm not local, but I'd hazard a guess the number of non-locals who use it to avoid paying for the tram because they've got an out of town bus pass is probably close to zero, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see there's going to be more pressure on the tram service, as Blackpool Transport are cutting the no:1 bus to hourly, due to driver shortges. There are going to be some fed up out of town pensioners having to shell out for tram fares/passes.

I've never entirely seen the point in the number 1 bus. It served a purpose when the tram service had a very limited capacity due to old style conductor operation, the trams often couldn't cope with numbers, particularly in summer and during the Lights, but now it really doesn't, other than so passholders can have a free journey. It's not even another bus company competing with Blackpool Transport, they're competing with themselves!

I'd bin it off entirely. Other routes cover close by the whole tram route if you really want to travel by bus.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've never entirely seen the point in the number 1 bus. It served a purpose when the tram service had a very limited capacity due to old style conductor operation, the trams often couldn't cope with numbers, particularly in summer and during the Lights, but now it really doesn't, other than so passholders can have a free journey. It's not even another bus company competing with Blackpool Transport, they're competing with themselves!

I'd bin it off entirely. Other routes cover close by the whole tram route if you really want to travel by bus.

In ye olde days the bus continued down to Pontins, so again had more of a point & again now it doesn't.

 

[splashoutradio]

I've never entirely seen the point in the number 1 bus. It served a purpose when the tram service had a very limited capacity due to old style conductor operation, the trams often couldn't cope with numbers, particularly in summer and during the Lights, but now it really doesn't, other than so passholders can have a free journey. It's not even another bus company competing with Blackpool Transport, they're competing with themselves!

I'd bin it off entirely. Other routes cover close by the whole tram route if you really want to travel by bus.

I realise I may be playing devil's advocate a little here... But in times of disruption on the tramway, it's not unusual to see social media feeds advising passengers that ticket acceptance has been arranged on the No. 1 bus. This keeps passengers moving, and may become a potential issue should the service be cut back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I realise I may be playing devil's advocate a little here... But in times of disruption on the tramway, it's not unusual to see social media feeds advising passengers that ticket acceptance has been arranged on the No. 1 bus. This keeps passengers moving, and may become a potential issue should the service be cut back.

There are other bus routes - not quite as simple, but together they cover the whole tramway route.

It is more than a bit silly that Blackpool doesn't have a Verbundtarif (i.e. one set of mode-agnostic connectional fares) - it's one company!

 

[splashoutradio]

There are other bus routes - not quite as simple, but together they cover the whole tramway route.

It is more than a bit silly that Blackpool doesn't have a Verbundtarif (i.e. one set of mode-agnostic connectional fares) - it's one company!

Ah, thanks for the info - I shall bow to your superior knowledge. It does seem odd that such duplication exists on a network that is entirely owned by the same operator.

 

[davehsug]

That's not good, the no 1 is the bus I use most often when in Blackpool. I'm not local, but I'd hazard a guess the number of non-locals who use it to avoid paying for the tram because they've got an out of town bus pass is probably close to zero, though.

Really? You've never seen the queues of pensioners at promenade bus stops whilst trams pass by half full?

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I always preferred to travel on the No1 bus, and have an evening out in Fleetwood. After 7pm the timetable changed to reflect less traffic, making journey 5+ minutes quicker than tram. Now no evening service
except a few late buses after tramway shuts down. More comfort, and no annoying long & loud announcements - 'THIS TRAM is....... lol!
I feel Blackpool trams are run more like a tourist railway, and does that job well.
Eg On Sunday the first tram from Fleetwood doesn't start till 8.05. The early No 14 buses are busy!

I imagine everywhere has pensioners queuing for a bus after 9.30 weekdays!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Really? You've never seen the queues of pensioners at promenade bus stops whilst trams pass by half full?

Or how it can get when it's market day in Fleetwood. I've had a case where bus after bus has passed me, full of pensioners leaving the market. Removing the number 1 is a stupid idea, unless you plan on replacing it, which I don't see possible, frankly.

 

[Deafdoggie]

But given they're short-staffed and need to cut buses, surely 1 is the one to cut?

 

[LOL The Irony]

But given they're short-staffed and need to cut buses, surely 1 is the one to cut?

I'm talking in the context of those posters who want it permanently gone. Because again, what will you replace it with? The trams are too busy in peak season for the elderly to use comfortably and the various bus routes that "go in the same general direction" do that in a completely different way, to the point that they couldn't be a direct replacement.

 

[duncombec]

I've never entirely seen the point in the number 1 bus. It served a purpose when the tram service had a very limited capacity due to old style conductor operation, the trams often couldn't cope with numbers, particularly in summer and during the Lights, but now it really doesn't, other than so passholders can have a free journey. It's not even another bus company competing with Blackpool Transport, they're competing with themselves!

I'd bin it off entirely. Other routes cover close by the whole tram route if you really want to travel by bus.

The reason for the number 1 bus was explained very clearly in a(n oral) presentation I attended a few months ago. Simply put, locals overwhelmingly use the bus, tourists overwhelmingly use the tram. The bus is also very much used by those (cash-paying) with a more restricted budget.

Sometimes, and I can be just as guilty, forum members have a habit of looking at things from a purely theoretical view, rather than considering the companies concerned do actually know what they're doing!

 

[LOL The Irony]

The reason for the number 1 bus was explained very clearly in a(n oral) presentation I attended a few months ago. Simply put, locals overwhelmingly use the bus, tourists overwhelmingly use the tram. The bus is also very much used by those (cash-paying) with a more restricted budget.

I know I'm repeating myself here, but it is also useful on Fleetwood market days, as well as at serving the Affinity Outlet (formerly the Freeport), which can be a pain to reach on foot. Sure Fisherman's Walk and Victoria Street tram stops serve both, but not as well and as cheaply as the bus does.

 

[philthetube]

10 journey ticket for bus and tram £20.80. £2.08 per trip. there really is not much difference between bus and tram fares, unless one is free.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The reason for the number 1 bus was explained very clearly in a(n oral) presentation I attended a few months ago. Simply put, locals overwhelmingly use the bus, tourists overwhelmingly use the tram. The bus is also very much used by those (cash-paying) with a more restricted budget.

I think that's slightly missing the point, though. If the bus was withdrawn, some locals would transfer to the other bus services that cover the tram route in sections, and some to the tram. I doubt many wouldn't travel at all.

 

[py_megapixel]

Only in the UK would a company operating two services along the same route deliberately make it more expensive to use the one which has more capacity... it defies all logic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only in the UK would a company operating two services along the same route deliberately make it more expensive to use the one which has more capacity... it defies all logic.

It (and the lack of a fully integrated fares structure across both modes) demonstrates how the UK simply doesn't "get" public transport systems properly, even when operated by one company!

 

[Deafdoggie]

Only in the UK would a company operating two services along the same route deliberately make it more expensive to use the one which has more capacity... it defies all logic.

So the system that costs more to operate should be cheaper? Surely it's sensible for the cheaper system to be cheaper?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So the system that costs more to operate should be cheaper? Surely it's sensible for the cheaper system to be cheaper?

Given that the number of passengers has barely any effect on the costs of operating either, if you have a more expensive system you want to maximise the number of people using it, and not provide a directly competing alternative that simply abstracts from it!

 

[LOL The Irony]

10 journey ticket for bus and tram £20.80. £2.08 per trip. there really is not much difference between bus and tram fares, unless one is free.

Which the tram isn't to bus pass holders.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which the tram isn't to bus pass holders.

It is if you're a Blackpool or Wyre passholder. Passholders from elsewhere aren't their problem, they can use the other bus routes which exist and can be used to make any tram journey with, if necessary, one or two changes.

We seem to have got to the idea of providing a coastal sightseeing bus for non-Blackpool residents on free passes is somehow a sensible use of money rather than using it to reduce tram fares or to increase the frequency on one or two of the other routes.

It's quite possibly the most ridiculous example of pointlessly profligate duplication I have ever seen in my life.

 

[py_megapixel]

So the system that costs more to operate should be cheaper? Surely it's sensible for the cheaper system to be cheaper?

Of course anywhere other than Blackpool, the tramway would have been ripped up long ago, and the route 1 bus would have been gradually upgraded and would now be a much higher frequency corridor - maybe every 10 minutes. But if they aren't going to do that, and it is a given that trams will be running even if they are more expensive to provide, is it not more efficient to have as many people on them as possible so that the per-passenger-journey operating cost is lower?

(Don't forget that even if providing a tram is more expensive than providing a bus, providing both will be more expensive than just the tram)

 

[Bald Rick]

Only in the UK would a company operating two services along the same route deliberately make it more expensive to use the one which has more capacity... it defies all logic.

presumably the tram is quicker? And therefore offers more benefit to passengers who choose to use it?

 

[LOL The Irony]

presumably the tram is quicker? And therefore offers more benefit to passengers who choose to use it?

The tram is quicker, but fills up to crush loadings once you start getting to places like Norbreck Castle heading towards Blackpool.

 

[Bald Rick]

The tram is quicker, but fills up to crush loadings once you start getting to places like Norbreck Castle heading towards Blackpool.

Sounds like the fares need to go up then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds like the fares need to go up then.

Sounds like more capacity is needed, then! Only in the UK would we try to price people off a successful urban transport system into their cars.

They've got the converted Balloons for that purpose - need to get them out of the shed!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Sounds like the fares need to go up then.

The fares are high enough without outsiders with no knowledge of the issues coming up with "clever" ideas, thank you. What actually needs to happen is Blackpool Transport need to remember that they have a B fleet and they should use it more often.

 

[Bald Rick]

The fares are high enough without outsiders with no knowledge of the issues coming up with "clever" ideas, thank you

well, as it happens although I’m not a resident of the Fylde, I do soend a lot of time there, so can claim to have a working knowledge of the system

in my view £2.60 is decent value for a tram journey of anything more than walking distance, and an absolute steal for the longer trips that can be done on the system. And £15.50 for a week of unlimited travel on trams and buses amazing!-

 

[py_megapixel]

Sounds like the fares need to go up then.

No... sounds like they need to add more capacity.

"There can't possibly be actual demand for that - it must be too cheap" is a silly attitude. It's exactly the same thing that plagues CrossCountry: the "solution" to chronic overcrowding is to try to price people off the network with very expensive fares, rather than to fix the actual problem by ordering some decent rolling stock. (I put "solution" in quotes because it doesn't work - the fares are still very high, and the trains are still overcrowded).