Future of Class 379

[Fincra5]

Why would the 379s be of any interest for 332 replacement?

The whole exercise is using spare capacity in the existing GWR 387 fleet.

Already kitted out for Airport Services... Compared to 387s! If they were released in time it would have been a good shout. I think 387s to replace 313s on coastway services or other mainline duties (knocking 377s down to the coast and metro) And 379s (with better 1st - like they 442s had) to take over GatEx. Unlikely but a nice idea haha.

 

[Fincra5]

Actually.. Perhaps the 379s can be used to replace the 387s on GN.. so they stop moaning about them

 

[43096]

Already kitted out for Airport Services... Compared to 387s! If they were released in time it would have been a good shout. I think 387s to replace 313s on coastway services or other mainline duties (knocking 377s down to the coast and metro) And 379s (with better 1st - like they 442s had) to take over GatEx. Unlikely but a nice idea haha.

Which bit of “using spare capacity” are you struggling with?

 

[317 forever]

The 379 ROSCO is Macquarie, not Eversholt.

This means you can see Macquarie class 379s at Liverpool Street. This compensates for no longer being able to see Macquarie buses there on route 8 or 47!

 

[D365]

This means you can see Macquarie class 379s at Liverpool Street. This compensates for no longer being able to see Macquarie buses there on route 8 or 47!

Not for much longer don’t forget.

 

[Fincra5]

Which bit of “using spare capacity” are you struggling with?

Relax bud! If the wires on the GWR grow a bit more the 387s can be useful, admittedly that's not on the cards yet.. From seeing how trains fail and the short forms, can't hurt - other than storage space and cost - to have excess units.

 

[43096]

Relax bud! If the wires on the GWR grow a bit more the 387s can be useful, admittedly that's not on the cards yet.. From seeing how trains fail and the short forms, can't hurt - other than storage space and cost - to have excess units.

I am relaxed....

Who’s paying for that then?

 

[Fincra5]

I am relaxed....

Who’s paying for that then?

Are you sure? You seemed a bit aggressive...
Its a mere suggestion, as I said, spare capacity ia useful but does cost. I don't work of either GWRs or DfTs finance departments so can't say who would pay for it. Sorry mate.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the point is that GWR has some spare 387s, presumably as a consequence of electrification being scaled back and/or Crossrail running some services that were originally intended to be GWR. So if they used the 379s instead then an equal number of 387s would be spare and they would also have a more diverse fleet with extra training/maintenance costs (though probably not much extra as the classes are very similar).

But the real killer is that the 387s will have been leased for a certain period and someone will have to go on paying the ROSCO for that period whether they were used or not.

 

[Fincra5]

I think the point is that GWR has some spare 387s, presumably as a consequence of electrification being scaled back and/or Crossrail running some services that were originally intended to be GWR. So if they used the 379s instead then an equal number of 387s would be spare and they would also have a more diverse fleet with extra training/maintenance costs (though probably not much extra as the classes are very similar).

But the real killer is that the 387s will have been leased for a certain period and someone will have to go on paying the ROSCO for that period whether they were used or not.

I didn't realise until I looked on Wiki quite how many GWR actually had.

 

[hwl]

IF they were kept on GatEx instead (cascading the 387s to coastal or mainline SN) then there wouldn't be too much of a need for ASDO.

The easiest solution might be to try to get the 379s to as near the (GatEx) 387/2 spec hardware wise so they could share an identical (or near identical) software build. Working ASDO + CSDE would be politically wise for going to Southern.

 

[D365]

Ah, I did also forget that Crossrail will be displacing a number of the 387s - in addition to what was already planned.

 

[Mikey C]

The orders for GWR (both the 80x and 387s) seemed pretty generous at the time, that they are able to presumably dedicate 12 out of its 45 units exclusively to HEx duties (i.e. it's not a temporary loan due to delayed electrification) does rather emphasise this

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened.

 

[317 forever]

Judging by the thread concerning the withdrawal of Southern's class 455s (and mention of 313s being life-expired), it seems assumed that the 379s are going to Great Northern, with 387s migrating to Southern.

 

[JonathanH]

Judging by the thread concerning the withdrawal of Southern's class 455s (and mention of 313s being life-expired), it seems assumed that the 379s are going to Great Northern, with 387s migrating to Southern.

Still frequently mentioned speculation at this stage though.

 

[Class 466]

Judging by the thread concerning the withdrawal of Southern's class 455s (and mention of 313s being life-expired), it seems assumed that the 379s are going to Great Northern, with 387s migrating to Southern.

455s are being withdrawn without any stock being cascaded to Southern.

I would personally be surprised to see the 379s go to GN now.

 

[jameslm85]

No sign of any 379 units of the WAML for a few weeks now. Are they now off lease?

 

[JonathanH]

With the news that the six 387/3s are going to the GN to form a right-sized fleet of 35 387 units on that route, perhaps that is confirmation that the 379s aren't going to be used.

It looks like the key factor in the future use of 379s will be if the stock changes on the Southern metro network work out or not.

If there is unacceptable overcrowding with the post-May 2022 formations on Southern metro there might be a 379-led cascade but I imagine that GTR / DfT will be hoping that the 379s aren't needed.

I wonder if a reconfiguration of some of the 377s to have a more metro layout (eg 378 / 710 standee formation) might be a more sensible first step than taking on 379s.

 

[Bald Rick]

With the news that the six 387/3s are going to the GN to form a right-sized fleet of 35 387 units on that route, perhaps that is confirmation that the 379s aren't going to be used.

It looks like the key factor in the future use of 379s will be if the stock changes on the Southern metro network work out or not.

If there is unacceptable overcrowding with the post-May 2022 formations on Southern metro there might be a 379-led cascade but I imagine that GTR / DfT will be hoping that the 379s aren't needed.

That’s my assessment of the situation too.

 

[Class 466]

With the news that the six 387/3s are going to the GN to form a right-sized fleet of 35 387 units on that route, perhaps that is confirmation that the 379s aren't going to be used.

is this confirmed news?

 

[JonathanH]

is this confirmed news?

The six 387/3s to GN appears to be. The rest is obviously conjecture.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/c2c-387s.224650/#post-5589787

 

[RichJF]

With the news that the six 387/3s are going to the GN to form a right-sized fleet of 35 387 units on that route, perhaps that is confirmation that the 379s aren't going to be used.

It looks like the key factor in the future use of 379s will be if the stock changes on the Southern metro network work out or not.

If there is unacceptable overcrowding with the post-May 2022 formations on Southern metro there might be a 379-led cascade but I imagine that GTR / DfT will be hoping that the 379s aren't needed.

I wonder if a reconfiguration of some of the 377s to have a more metro layout (eg 378 / 710 standee formation) might be a more sensible first step than taking on 379s.

There's a few posts from some members (who I think may have inside GTR knowledge) in the "Southern 313 withdrawal" thread that the 377/5s are returning to Southern in Dec 2022. Therefore I suspect the 379/387 shuffle may be less imminent than appears as I reckon some reshuffling may take place.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

There has been so much talked about with class 379 and where it is going to end up? I would say GTR Great Northern but that is unlikely, other operators GWR, EMR, or maybe scrapped with would not be good but may be fitted with a shoe to connect to the 3rd rail or do a recycle like what SWR previously South West Trains and porterbrook where they could take 2 off-lease trains and turn into a new fleet of trains?

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Well, I just wonder if there is a surprise concerning 379's?

 

[D365]

Well, I just wonder if there is a surprise concerning 379's?

Not sure what you mean?

 

[swt_passenger]

Not sure what you mean?

I think it means someone’s missed the last 6 months of constant speculation about 379s in threads about other rolling stock, or they think there's someone who knows but isn’t saying…

 

[Purple Train]

I wonder what they could be used for?
Part of me was thinking that Thameslink might find them useful running Luton-Gatwick trains.
Does anyone have any other speculative suggestions?

 

[43102EMR]

They aren’t dual voltage, so that’s out of the question - recent rumours have suggested GWR as part of their 30x 4 car EMU tender.

 

[Purple Train]

They aren’t dual voltage, so that’s out of the question - recent rumours have suggested GWR as part of their 30x 4 car EMU tender.

Oh good - were that to happen it may well start just as I finish the entire set of GWR Electrostars at the rate I'm going...
I'd've thought they might do well replacing the 387s on Heathrow Express services, given their background, though obviously that would require a repaint and a retouch for the Hex units that have been recently done up anyway. But I suppose this is all speculative.