Train toilets - why not put them all in the same coach?

[Dougal2345]

Something I was thinking about the other day. I'm sure this will have been discussed before here (most things have) but I couldn't find a thread (there are quite a few about toilets!).

Modern multiple units seem to space toilets fairly evenly along the train.

In a 444 for example, there's one in the 2nd carriage, 1 in the middle, and 2 in the 4th. In a 450 there's one in the 2nd and one in the 3rd.

The reason is obvious - so no-one has to walk more than one carriage-length to get to a toilet, which can be difficult if the train is full and standing.

But wouldn't there be advantages to clustering the toilets in one carriage towards the centre of the unit?

For the passenger, there'd be a greater chance that when you got to the toilet area, there'd be one that was unoccupied and working, meaning there'd never be the need to walk the full length of the unit on a 'toilet hunt'.

Also there'd be no need to make the cubicles ultra-narrow as many are at the moment, because they mustn't obstruct the main central path - they could spread out a little, placed transversely.

And you wouldn't have seated passengers watching you as the big motorised door closes and opens, or sitting right outside your sliding door, if you had a dedicated toilet area...

For the railway, wouldn't it make things cheaper, centralising all the 'plumbing', and just having one big retention tank to empty?

And even in a five-car unit you'd only ever be 2-and-a-tiny-bit carriages (max) from a toilet, so not that terrible -people thinking they will likely need the toilet during the journey would know to sit near the middle of the train.

Wouldn't the advantages outweigh that disadvantage?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Train toilets are designed to be as small as possible so they only take up as much room as needs be, because the main purpose of a train is to carry passengers, not to provide them with facilities. Although they're a necessity (especially as most stations have lost their facilities), they're a convenience that takes up space, so making them bigger won't go down well with the bean counters.

 

[skyhigh]

just having one big retention tank

A) Would it fit on the vehicle, along with the fresh water tanks?
B) Would it weigh too much?
C) At least with several tanks if one is full there's a chance others won't be. With one, all the toilets will go out of use at once

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Be a right pain on an 11 coach Pendolino.

 

[306024]

Stadler class 755 units have both toilets in the same coach, although the smaller loo is still quite small. Here’s the layout:

https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feabmu0916e.pdf

 

[Bletchleyite]

Class 321s used to have both together either side of the gangway in one coach.

 

[Energy]

Be a right pain on an 11 coach Pendolino.

Even if it was a centre coach, walking through 5 or 6 cars to get to the toilet wouldn't be nice

 

[hexagon789]

Even if it was a centre coach, walking through 5 or 6 cars to get to the toilet wouldn't be nice

Be almost impossible crush loaded...

 

[D365]

A) Would it fit on the vehicle, along with the fresh water tanks?
B) Would it weigh too much?
C) At least with several tanks if one is full there's a chance others won't be. With one, all the toilets will go out of use at once

That’s an important point - distribution of weight, and redundancy.

 

[Dunnideer]

But wouldn't there be advantages to clustering the toilets in one carriage towards the centre of the unit?

I’ve seen that sort of arrangement on some long haul planes with a bank of five or six toilets together in the middle. Also the old mk3 sleeper coaches used to have two toilets next to each other at one end, I don’t know if that has been carried over to the new Scottish sleeper coaches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another one - 350/4s (and only that subclass) have them at both ends of coach B.

 

[hexagon789]

I’ve seen that sort of arrangement on some long haul planes with a bank of five or six toilets together in the middle. Also the old mk3 sleeper coaches used to have two toilets next to each other at one end, I don’t know if that has been carried over to the new Scottish sleeper coaches.

The Mk3 sleepers had them together because the Mk3 underbody only had space for retention tanks at one end without a costly redesign of underfloor equipment locations. This is why the retention tank fitted HST trailers all only have a toilet at one end now.