Temporary steam ban imposed by N.R. due to the heatwave

[Dave S 56F]

Hi I'm just asking if anybody on rail forums may know otherwise, Has network rail decided to keep the steam ban on excursion charter trains this week until further notice although there has been a few days of persistant showers? I think network rail imposed it cos of the long spell of dry hot weather sometime early last week and also maybe cos of 6233 duchess of Sutherland on the Chesireman 16/7/2022 caused a lineside fire near Stafford. It's just that I've been reading elsewhere a dalesman tour tomorrow steam hauled originally from Hellifield ret is now diesel hauled throughout.

 

[Wolfie]

What rain there has been has, in most places, been very limited. Certainly not enough to thoroughly rehydrate parched vegetation. Therefore l would have thought that even if temperatures have dropped the fire risks remain. As such maintaining the steam ban seems sensible.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

A fair sized grass type fire near Farnham yesterday, and although a few miles away could smell it and of course see the smoke. SFB stayed on site over night to damp down.

 

[John Webb]

It's not only NR - the North York Moors Railway went over last week to diesel-only traction even though they'd had diesels giving assistance over the worst areas in previous weeks.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Likewise the Mad-hants.

 

[david l]

What rain there has been has, in most places, been very limited. Certainly not enough to thoroughly rehydrate parched vegetation. Therefore l would have thought that even if temperatures have dropped the fire risks remain. As such maintaining the steam ban seems sensible.

Not very limited to the north and west of Manchester. Have had 3 days of several hours of heavy rain.

 

[Wolfie]

Not very limited to the north and west of Manchester. Have had 3 days of several hours of heavy rain.

Wow. No rain at all in my bit of North London....

 

[Ken H]

Not very limited to the north and west of Manchester. Have had 3 days of several hours of heavy rain.

Damn soggy in the Dales and Lakes today - I have been out and about. Even the rivers are up a little.

 

[Deepgreen]

Vast swathes of southern England have had no appreciable rain for weeks, and very much below average since winter. I don't see any change in the weather on the horizon and it will take several day-long steady country-wide rain 'events' to get things back to normal again. The fire risk will remain extreme, and, of course, any showers have only been local, by their very nature, so even trains that may start in an area that's had a shower recently will probably travel into parched areas. It's simply far too complex to try to manage anything but a general ban at the moment. I suspect it may not change until September at the earliest.

 

[david l]

Deepgreen - agree with what you say but the UK and even England is much bigger than London and the South East!

 

[Deepgreen]

Deepgreen - agree with what you say but the UK and even England is much bigger than London and the South East!

Absolutely so, but even the other regions have been very hot and dry in so many places that passing through them is clearly a high risk.

 

[30907]

Damn soggy in the Dales and Lakes today - I have been out and about. Even the rivers are up a little.

Yet very little rain just a few miles east.

Absolutely so, but even the other regions have been very hot and dry in so many places that passing through them is clearly a high risk.

Pretty much the whole country except the North Pennines and West thereof.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The vegetation in North West England is not parched and hasn't been at any time this year. The North West hasn't had a summer either except 3 days last week. If there is a steam ban up here affecting the Dalesman I would say it is unwarranted.

 

[railfan99]

The vegetation in North West England is not parched and hasn't been at any time this year. The North West hasn't had a summer either except 3 days last week. If there is a steam ban up here affecting the Dalesman I would say it is unwarranted.

I am in Australia, but do the posts above take heed of subsoil moisture?

Happy to be corrected, but you've had a rare one to two day heatwave in some of the UK. Subsequently, you've reverted to standard UK summer temperatures: today's forecast maximum for Bath and Totnes is 20-21 degrees. Cool!

Have authorities such as Network Rail overreacted? We have baking heat for two days several times most summers in Melbourne, where many live by the Bay or other coasts. Inland, it can be far more severe, and for longer.

You just don't have the bushfires we experience in southeast Australia (though hardly any over December 2021-February 2022) or in the USA, what the Yanks call 'wildfires' in say California.

I note there's a rain band approaching Cork, Ireland, so perhaps 'parched southern England' as described above will in time receive some.

 

[Magdalia]

I live in parched southern England. In 2022 so far we have had about 170mm of rain here, less than 7 inches. The last decent rain was on 30 June, since then all we have had is a few light showers that can be counted on one hand. There's no significant rain forecast for the next 2 weeks. I have an allotment: there is no subsoil moisture and very little is growing even though I water twice a day. In previous years I have planted a late crop of potatoes in July: this year I've not bothered because there is no subsoil moisture.

Everywhere is tinder dry and recent wildfires show how dangerous the current situation is. I have seen the damage caused by the 2003 bushfires around Canberra. Wennington (Essex) last week, where a number of houses were gutted by a wildfire, is a warning that it can happen here. More details on Wennington here:

Heatwave: Fires blaze after UK passes 40C for first time

A record of 40.3C is set in Lincolnshire - and major incidents are declared in several areas.

www.bbc.co.uk

So no a steam ban is not an over reaction.

 

[steamybrian]

I am in Australia, but do the posts above take heed of subsoil moisture?

Happy to be corrected, but you've had a rare one to two day heatwave in some of the UK. Subsequently, you've reverted to standard UK summer temperatures: today's forecast maximum for Bath and Totnes is 20-21 degrees. Cool!

Have authorities such as Network Rail overreacted? We have baking heat for two days several times most summers in Melbourne, where many live by the Bay or other coasts. Inland, it can be far more severe, and for longer.

You just don't have the bushfires we experience in southeast Australia (though hardly any over December 2021-February 2022) or in the USA, what the Yanks call 'wildfires' in say California.

I note there's a rain band approaching Cork, Ireland, so perhaps 'parched southern England' as described above will in time receive some.

I agree with Magdalia and Deepgreen said above- the South East England have not only had a heatwave for two days but no rain for weeks. The ground is hard the vegetation is "parched" and the subsoil is dry. There have been many large grass fires.
I fully understand why Network Rail and other heritage railways have had to suspend steam traction.

 

[Iskra]

I am in Australia, but do the posts above take heed of subsoil moisture?

Happy to be corrected, but you've had a rare one to two day heatwave in some of the UK. Subsequently, you've reverted to standard UK summer temperatures: today's forecast maximum for Bath and Totnes is 20-21 degrees. Cool!

Have authorities such as Network Rail overreacted? We have baking heat for two days several times most summers in Melbourne, where many live by the Bay or other coasts. Inland, it can be far more severe, and for longer.

You just don't have the bushfires we experience in southeast Australia (though hardly any over December 2021-February 2022) or in the USA, what the Yanks call 'wildfires' in say California.

I note there's a rain band approaching Cork, Ireland, so perhaps 'parched southern England' as described above will in time receive some.

20-21 is still warm by UK standards. I’ve known 12 degrees in summer! Yes, the extreme heat only lasted a couple of days but overall it has been hotter, dryer and sunnier than normal all year which has added up. The rain we are getting is generally also lighter, patchier and less consistent, so you may see rain forecast but it might not actually materialise or do anything. The land is still dry on the East of the country, it’s much more yellow than normal and much less green.

 

[Graham H]

I am in Australia, but do the posts above take heed of subsoil moisture?

Happy to be corrected, but you've had a rare one to two day heatwave in some of the UK. Subsequently, you've reverted to standard UK summer temperatures: today's forecast maximum for Bath and Totnes is 20-21 degrees. Cool!

Have authorities such as Network Rail overreacted? We have baking heat for two days several times most summers in Melbourne, where many live by the Bay or other coasts. Inland, it can be far more severe, and for longer.

You just don't have the bushfires we experience in southeast Australia (though hardly any over December 2021-February 2022) or in the USA, what the Yanks call 'wildfires' in say California.

I note there's a rain band approaching Cork, Ireland, so perhaps 'parched southern England' as described above will in time receive some.

Appreciate that we soft Pommies cant handle the heat but its lack of rain. Actually it only reached the low 30's on my part of the south coast last week. nowhere near the 40 degrees panic headline. 40 degrees + rain would turn us into a lush rain forest environment but regrettably we havent had any liquid sunshine for weeks which is why the steam ban is still justified

 

[steamybrian]

Here in the South East just had overnight rain. Not a deluge but sufficient to wet the ground and stop fires from spreading. With further light showers forecast later today.

 

[6Gman]

The vegetation in North West England is not parched and hasn't been at any time this year. The North West hasn't had a summer either except 3 days last week. If there is a steam ban up here affecting the Dalesman I would say it is unwarranted.

It certainly is in this part of North West England - walked across a grass field a few days ago and it was like walking across a bed of rice crispies*! We have had a decent bit of rain since then but not enough to make a significant difference.



* Other breakfast cereals are available.

 

[Mike Machin]

I can understand the Mid Hants resorting to diesel traction, I live near Winchester and have recorded only 3mm of rain at the beginning of June, and only 0.2mm since then. Despite the lower temperatures at the moment, everything is literally tinder dry.

 

[Runningaround]

I am in Australia, but do the posts above take heed of subsoil moisture?

Happy to be corrected, but you've had a rare one to two day heatwave in some of the UK. Subsequently, you've reverted to standard UK summer temperatures: today's forecast maximum for Bath and Totnes is 20-21 degrees. Cool!

Have authorities such as Network Rail overreacted? We have baking heat for two days several times most summers in Melbourne, where many live by the Bay or other coasts. Inland, it can be far more severe, and for longer.

You just don't have the bushfires we experience in southeast Australia (though hardly any over December 2021-February 2022) or in the USA, what the Yanks call 'wildfires' in say California.

I note there's a rain band approaching Cork, Ireland, so perhaps 'parched southern England' as described above will in time receive some.

Yes but it's a vast desert where few live, put it's population into an area the size of South East England and send a Steam Train straight through with sparks flying out into dry grass and forests surrounding towns and cities. An excursion primarily used by pensioners can wait until it rains heavily again.

 

[Bald Rick]

I am in Australia, but do the posts above take heed of subsoil moisture?

yes, subsoil moisture* is a specific measure used when taking decisions such as these.

It’s not the heat that’s the issue, but the lack of rain. Where I live, even with some rain that we had two night ago, the ground is still very dry, and there have been crop fires nearby subsequently.

*specifically, Soil Moisture Deficit, a measure of how much rain is needed to get the soil to be fully saturated. Currently, it is at over 300mm for much of the country; this is very, very dry.

 

[Iskra]

I’m not critical of the NR decision or being whimsically nostalgic, but how did they cope back in mainline steam days when dry summers were encountered? I assume half the countryside was just on fire and that was just accepted back then?

 

[ac6000cw]

I’m not critical of the NR decision or being whimsically nostalgic, but how did they cope back in mainline steam days when dry summers were encountered? I assume half the countryside was just on fire and that was just accepted back then?

Keeping the lineside vegetation cut back was one of the important jobs the local track gang did to minimise the problem (just take a look at railway photographs from that era), plus for dealing with minor lineside fires that did happen the steam loco had a handy supply of cold water of course .

Plus I think I've read that if the fire risk was particularly bad on a route the railway might keep a 'fire fighting' train on standby to deal with outbreaks and/or water spray some locations.

 

[Magdalia]

I’m not critical of the NR decision or being whimsically nostalgic, but how did they cope back in mainline steam days when dry summers were encountered?

Which summers were those!? In steam days summers weren't this hot or this dry.

I assume half the countryside was just on fire and that was just accepted back then?

In the countryside there was a different culture about fire risk and how to manage it. For example, it was accepted practice for farmers to burn the stubble that was left after cereal crops were harvested. Farming was much more labour intensive: in the event of fire likely to get out of control it would literally be all hands to the pump.

 

[Iskra]

Keeping the lineside vegetation cut back was one of the important jobs the local track gang did to minimise the problem (just take a look at railway photographs from that era), plus for dealing with minor lineside fires that did happen the steam loco had a handy supply of cold water of course .

Plus I think I've read that if the fire risk was particularly bad on a route the railway might keep a 'fire fighting' train on standby to deal with outbreaks and/or water spray some locations.

Thank you. I assume the permanent way gang would also do fire duty and beat out trackside fires too?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2022 ==

Which summers were those!? In steam days summers weren't this hot or this dry.


In the countryside there was a different culture about fire risk and how to manage it. For example, it was accepted practice for farmers to burn the stubble that was left after cereal crops were harvested. Farming was much more labour intensive: in the event of fire likely to get out of control it would literally be all hands to the pump.

Give over, it’s a total falsehood that occasional dry summers are a modern thing. 1911 was a particular dry one, very much in the prime of steam locomotion. There have always been fluctuations in temperatures- the Romans had vineyards in Northumberland and in the 1700’s the Thames use to freeze deep enough that markets were held on it!

Thanks for the useful information in the second paragraph.

 

[DarloRich]

We have had, I think, the driest July on record. If there isn't a steam ban there should be. We have hardly had any rain beyond a few light showers of a few minutes duration. The grass and vegetation round here are super dry. That's why we are seeing so many grassland fires.

I’m not critical of the NR decision or being whimsically nostalgic, but how did they cope back in mainline steam days when dry summers were encountered? I assume half the countryside was just on fire and that was just accepted back then?

surely they had a different climate profile ( wetter, slightly cooler) and more men to go out stamping on fires

 

[Iskra]

yes, subsoil moisture* is a specific measure used when taking decisions such as these.

It’s not the heat that’s the issue, but the lack of rain. Where I live, even with some rain that we had two night ago, the ground is still very dry, and there have been crop fires nearby subsequently.

*specifically, Soil Moisture Deficit, a measure of how much rain is needed to get the soil to be fully saturated. Currently, it is at over 300mm for much of the country; this is very, very dry.

As you seem knowledgeable do you by any chance know what level of rainfall is required to saturate the soil once more? We supposedly had 2mm overnight but it isn't penetrating really, with another 3mm forecast on Saturday.

 

[Bald Rick]

As you seem knowledgeable do you be any chance know what level of rainfall is required to saturate the soil once more? We supposedly had 2mm overnight but it isn't penetrating really, with another 3mm forecast on Saturday.

the SMD is how much rain is needed to saturate the soil. It varies by geography, but round my neck of the woods it’s over 300mm.

but ‘saturated’ soil means exactly that, ie that it cannot absorb any more rain.