Northern Class 150s to deputise for TfW Class 230s

[warwickshire]

The 150’s started their transfer north with 150268 which was split and one car sent to Leeds and one to Sheffield for crew familiarisation.The remainder.(150269 - 277) came in 2 batches (269 - 274 then later 275 - 277) from Valley Lines in exchange for 11 x 142’s, some of which were already refurbished by NS. The 142’s with the NS refurb were then swapped with some unrefurbished examples from NS (probably ATN by then) so VL could implement their own refurb. I remember working several units after the 142 shuffle with VL internal branding and indeed the Valley Lines logo in place of the RR logo on the outside around 2001/02. VL of course received 4 units from NWT also.

Also there were 2 x 150’s transferred from Scotrail just after the VL units (150228/245) although 245 transferred to Anglia railways in around 2002 then ended up with Central Trains and finally ATW.

Incidentally when the remainder of the Scotrail 150’s transferred to ATW 3 examples went on temporary loan to ATN in 2004, these being 150208, 256 & 284. I was lucky enough to work all 3.

Under ATN they could turn up anywhere mainly Leeds - Sheffield stoppers, Leeds - Knottingley/Goole, Calder Valley to replace a 155, 156 or158, Leeds - Morecambe (I’m sure one was diagrammed to the 1019 LDS - MCM for a period) and even on class 1 work when desperately short of stock. They even found their way on to the triangle.

It was. Remember having 150228. A few times to Morecambe on that Service around that time. Before catching the 142 Pacer to Heysham sea terminal. Which bizzarly was worked by a Liverpool Lime Street crewe.
However Liverpool Lime Street crewe lost it. Because the 1019 ex Leeds got extended to Heysham. Worked by Skipton with Barrow at times ex Lancaster. Also had 150228 to Heysham as well. However if it was 142. Barrow took it for Skipton.
But if it was a 1502. Ie 150228.
Both Skipton and Barrow went.
Due to Barrow not having 150 Knowledge any longer.

 

[SLTRegular]

Yes FNW was still in existence in 2001. I didn’t realise that they had the loan of 150208 to be honest. They did loan 142069 in full refurbished VL regalia (can’t remember exactly when, possibly 2003/04 just before the merger). It was pretty much exclusively worked on the Blackpool South - Colne service due to it having less capacity than the FNW fleet which worked into the cities although I do remember seeing it in Man Vic, possibly on an Oldham loop service.

I know 142069 worked Kirkby's twice as i rode it to Victoria twice only once did it show the destinations correctly.

 

[northernrailer]

Thanks for this. 150208 also had a spell around Manchester (was it still FNW then?) in 2001. Somewhere I have a photo of it. At the time there were plenty of Strathclyde class 101s milling about too. There were plenty of class 142 swaps on the Valleys. I had 25 of them in or out of Cardiff. A few of them had the original bus seats.

150208 was loaned from Scotrail by Central Trains. Also 150241 was loaned from Wales & West by Central Trains too.

 

[L401CJF]

150270 noted arriving into Llandudno this afternoon around 1245

 

[Segedunum]

Yes, 150270 is currently spending the day trundling to and from Blaenau...

 

[craigybagel]

There's a notice at work about them implying they're to be treated the same as any other 150. Only very minor differences from existing TfW fleet. No intermediate door panels for the guard and BR1 key required to lock cab doors.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It's a shame that there isn't a route in West Yorkshire that could make use of two spare 150s instead of being reduced to a peak-only bus service...

Oh, wait.

The Norther routes aren’t bus replaced due to a stock shortage but a driver shortage, makes sense to temporarily have trains loaned to another network which is actually short of trains than sit around spare because there are no crew to drive them.

 

[JetStream]

There's a notice at work about them implying they're to be treated the same as any other 150. Only very minor differences from existing TfW fleet. No intermediate door panels for the guard and BR1 key required to lock cab doors.

That must be fun for the guard on local services with regular stops!

 

[craigybagel]

That must be fun for the guard on local services with regular stops!

Indeed, it's not ideal. Those panels are a life saver on local services.

 

[geoffk]

Are these two 150s to cover for the two TfW units damaged in the Craven Arms collision/fire? If so, do we know when these are expected back in service? Or are they additional to those? Three-puls-two seats will be a novel experience for TfW users.

 

[Neptune]

That must be fun for the guard on local services with regular stops!

Indeed, it's not ideal. Those panels are a life saver on local services.

We’d be more than happy to have them back at Northern now if these loan units aren’t up to scratch.

 

[craigybagel]

Are these two 150s to cover for the two TfW units damaged in the Craven Arms collision/fire? If so, do we know when these are expected back in service? Or are they additional to those? Three-puls-two seats will be a novel experience for TfW users.

With the Craven Arms sets, it's more "if" than "when" I suspect.

We’d be more than happy to have them back at Northern now if these loan units aren’t up to scratch.

They're not much use at Northern if they haven't got the staff to run them. TfW are struggling more for rolling stock than staff at the moment.

 

[Neptune]

They're not much use at Northern if they haven't got the staff to run them. TfW are struggling more for rolling stock than staff at the moment.

Fair enough. It was just sounding a bit ungracious that Northern were in a position to loan TfW a couple of desperately needed units and then they get complained about because they haven’t got an intermediate door panel (hardly a crisis when the alternative is potentially a cancelled train).

We could have always use them to double up busy services around Leeds in the summer holidays and then the run up to Christmas.

 

[skyhigh]

Are these two 150s to cover for the two TfW units damaged in the Craven Arms collision/fire?

No, the loan was agreed before that happened.

 

[craigybagel]

Fair enough. It was just sounding a bit ungracious that Northern were in a position to loan TfW a couple of desperately needed units and then they get complained about because they haven’t got an intermediate door panel (hardly a crisis when the alternative is potentially a cancelled train).

Didn't mean it to sound ungracious, just an honest comment that it will be a struggle for staff. Better than a cancellation of course and it's not like there's a wealth of alternatives out there, but at the same time there's no point ignoring issues. In an ideal world the 230s would be in service but we are where we are.

I would also assume it's not just a loan based out of the kindness of the hearts of the folk who run Northern but that there's some degree of financial benefit for them.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Three-puls-two seats will be a novel experience for TfW users.

The vast majority of Rhymney/Bargoed/Ystrad - Cardiff and Penarth has been booked for 3+2 stock for well over a year.

 

[geoffk]

The vast majority of Rhymney/Bargoed/Ystrad - Cardiff and Penarth has been booked for 3+2 stock for well over a year.

Yes the 769s of course. But on other lines it will be more unusual (since the Pacers went).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes the 769s of course. But on other lines it will be more unusual (since the Pacers went).

Even the Welsh Pacers were indeed all 2+2 seated.
However, the Northern 150s usually work much longer journeys than the Treherbert lines.

 

[davetheguard]

They were always Valley Lines units after privatisation until transfer to NS (1998 or 1999).

Well, I knew Dutch Railways (NS) operated trains branded "Sprinters", but I hadn't realised they'd transferred from Valley Lines!

I'll get my coat......

 

[CardiffKid]

There's a notice at work about them implying they're to be treated the same as any other 150. Only very minor differences from existing TfW fleet. No intermediate door panels for the guard and BR1 key required to lock cab doors.

So what does this mean? The guard has to operate the doors from the rear cab?

 

[craigybagel]

So what does this mean? The guard has to operate the doors from the rear cab?

Front or rear cabs (or more specifically, the vestibule next to this said cabs, which is why they can be worked from the front if needs be). The existing TfW units have an extra set of door panels on the inner set of passenger doors in each car.

 

[D365]

Even the Welsh Pacers were indeed all 2+2 seated.

Don't think any Pacers (excluding the bus seats) were ever 3+2 seating.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Don't think any Pacers (excluding the bus seats) were ever 3+2 seating.

The dreaded merseyrail pacers were definitely 3+2, or are they just a different kind of bus seat

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Don't think any Pacers (excluding the bus seats) were ever 3+2 seating.

Unfortunately the horrible ex-Mersey ones were horrendous tiny 3+2 seats not that different in shape to the original PEP seating, only harder and narrower. Like these, the issue with the Northern 150s is less the 3+2 seating and more the cram-em-in layout severely restricting legroom.

The bench bus seating was great As was the other cushiony 2+2 type used in the Heaton units.

 

[185]

Looked out of place seeing that at Shotton. Thought they would have at least re-vinyl'd it to read Gogleddol

 

[py_megapixel]

The bench bus seating was great As was the other cushiony 2+2 type used in the Heaton units.

Yes, both of those were far superior to the Merseytravel layout, though in my view, they were still too short of legroom to be comfortable.

The bus seats were actually slightly wider on one side than the other, though I'm not sure that really counts as 3+2.

The Merseytravel ones also recieved big flipdot screens on the front, which assuming they weren't being washed out by sunlight, were easier to read from a distance than the tiny blinds. I'm not sure why big blinds, such as were used on buses, never caught on for the front of trains in this country.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes, both of those were far superior to the Merseytravel layout, though in my view, they were still too short of legroom to be comfortable.

The bus seats were actually slightly wider on one side than the other, though I'm not sure that really counts as 3+2.

The Merseytravel ones also recieved big flipdot screens on the front, which assuming they weren't being washed out by sunlight, were easier to read from a distance than the tiny blinds. I'm not sure why big blinds, such as were used on buses, never caught on for the front of trains in this country.

Definitely classed as 3+2, there was an obvious difference between the '3' side and the '2' side. The 3 side was about 50% bigger than the 2 side, hence being designed for 50% more backside.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looked out of place seeing that at Shotton. Thought they would have at least re-vinyl'd it to read Gogleddol

Wouldn't the same or similar trains (different livery) have been used on the line by FNW in the past, before the Wales & Borders carve-up?

 

[185]

20 years ago since NWT's gold star livery was going up that way.

 

[D365]

Unfortunately the horrible ex-Mersey ones were horrendous tiny 3+2 seats not that different in shape to the original PEP seating, only harder and narrower. Like these, the issue with the Northern 150s is less the 3+2 seating and more the cram-em-in layout severely restricting legroom.

The bench bus seating was great As was the other cushiony 2+2 type used in the Heaton units.

Ah. In any case, and to bring it somewhat back on topic - your assessment of the Northern 150s is fair.