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Scotrail mixing 158 & 170 on the same set?

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anamyd

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the 172/1s cant couple to 16x now, they needed to be changed when going to wmr so that they could work with the other 172s, along with 15x or other 17x if needed
It hadn't actually occured to me that 172s could could have their coupler configuration changed. Interesting that it's only one class, 172, regardless, despite the older Turbostars being 168/170/171 depending on their coupler config :p
 
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Morayshire

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Believe it was 0539 Dundee - Aberdeen. I travelled on it once in order to score the rare crossover at Carnoustie. On that occasion it was 158 + 170 and the 170 was detached at Carnoustie to form 0603 back to Dundee via all the small halts
This would be the old 1H25 which I used to get at around 06:00 @ Arbroath to arrive in Aberdeen early enough to get a bus out to Westhill.

The 158 then ran through to Inverness from Aberdeen still using the 1H25 headcode after a crew change.

Train still runs but is now 1H37 with the main difference being the removal of the c. 10 min wait at Montrose which means an earlier arrival into Aberdeen. Still normally a 158 which should go all the way to Inverness as well.
 

driverd

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I asked someone I know and yes, seemingly not.

I drove both traction at the same time so I'd know... :lol:

Though according to them its due to a general ban on Pacers working with units equipped with enhanced energency braking and some wiring incompatibilities. Though nominally the multi working system itself should tolerate either but in practice it doesn't.

I suppose the Pacer might not be able to take the extra brakeforce without some stressing?

I can't help with the theory around enhance brake force. In practice it shouldn't make a great deal of difference, as the units don't share air in the brake res so you'll only be stressing the coupler. Obviously two differing amounts of brake force will put some stress across a coupler but certainly no more than hauling a unit with a failed engine or isolated brakes etc.

I've always been told it was predominantly a wiring issue - I'm not a fitter though so it's really not my area of expertise.

15x units do need mods to work with 170s though. Our ex Northern 156s (470/473/497/498) aren't properly compatible with 170s and various issues occur when they're coupled - one of which is that the door hustle alarms sound constantly on the 156 above 9 mph. One of the mods concerns being able to undertake the brake continuity test after coupling.

Had the same issue with a 153/170 lash up although it was a constant hustle alarm on the 153. I think its just to do with what mods over the years have been attached to which train wires. Obviously intercompatibility between 156/170s wasn't necessary through much of the units lives at northern so perhaps there's just a mod on them thats been done in a different way to the based 156s.

It's a mod that, provided the reverser is in neutral without a door release allows the brakes to drop with a door open for the purpose of getting out to observe that they've also dropped in the other unit.

Some 170s have this as standard (ex Scotrail ones I know for sure). It's an 8 second timer during which the door must be opened and returned to closed or you'll brake train wire 4 and get an emergency brake application.

That's how it was put to me anyway. Not a technical person but I know 153s were prone to rolling away if a particular set of circumstances aligned with the driver putting the reverser in neutral before the guard released the doors.

No mods required on 153s as you can just walk through the gangway once coupled for brake continuity - though this may well differ depending on TOC. My employer always had the policy that the slab fronted unit was the one you could get off - presence of the gangway meant no mods required on the gangwayed unit. If coupling gangway-slab always couple from the slab unit so you can open the door and go check brake continuity.

Wouldn’t the brake dump? I don’t think you can trap the brake on a 158.
Yes that was a problem on 14x and 150, 153 and 156. I’m not sure about the 155 now they’ve been fitted with door interlock.
At least the acrid smell would’ve drowned out the smell of the CET tanks xD

I presume you're talking about trapping and then opening a door? Can't be done on any of the gangwayed units I sign (158s of various heritage included). Ditto all other gangwayed units.

A clever mod, however, fitted to ex-Scotrail units is the "train coupled" light behind the drivers head. Don't know what the policy was in Scotland but when you've got electrical continuity it will light up and can be seen from the unit opposite. I don't know if, in Scotland, it replaced the need for a brake continuity check but it's certainly a neat idea.
 

Efini92

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One evening a driver came in with a line of Cl158s complaining that there wasn’t much puff in the formation. The fitters went down to have a look and found a Cl150 tied on at the back with huge wheelflats and burrs on each wheel. He said they had to take angle grinders to them before it could be moved onto the “factory”. Turns out whoever had coupled it up had forgotten to press the couple button, but it clearly doesn’t prevent his colleague at the other end from getting the brakes off.
Fair point, and something I’d completely overlooked. I had a scenario at Piccadilly once where it was coupled but the couple relay in one of the 150’s was seized closed. So one train could get brake release and one couldn’t, Similar to the situation you described.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I presume you're talking about trapping and then opening a door? Can't be done on any of the gangwayed units I sign (158s of various heritage included). Ditto all other gangwayed units.
I got the impression you’re a Leeds driver, do you not sign 150’s and 156’s?
 

driverd

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I got the impression you’re a Leeds driver, do you not sign 150’s and 156’s?

No comment haha (I don't want to mention my current employer/location on here for social media policy reasons but I may or may not have been there once upon a time haha). Yes, though, some of Leeds do sign both. 150 are core traction and there's a fair few with 156 still on the cards.
 

skyhigh

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Yes, though, some of Leeds do sign both. 150 are core traction and there's a fair few with 156 still on the cards.
A few might retain 156s but there's definitely no refreshers going and no further training happening for Leeds drivers?
 

Efini92

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A few might retain 156s but there's definitely no refreshers going and no further training happening for Leeds drivers?
Have they taken them off already? They only put them back on a few years ago.
 

43055

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Our ex Welsh 170273 has stickers in the cabs saying that it can mechanically couple to 14x for emergency rescue purposes only.

I was always under the impression that 170 and 14x was barred.

15x units do need mods to work with 170s though. Our ex Northern 156s (470/473/497/498) aren't properly compatible with 170s and various issues occur when they're coupled - one of which is that the door hustle alarms sound constantly on the 156 above 9 mph. One of the mods concerns being able to undertake the brake continuity test after coupling.
Interestingly 156470 and 170420 are showing as working a ECS from Derby to Etches Park later this evening.
 

LowLevel

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