TOC (GWR Night Riviera) responsibility during industrial action

[RailExplorer]

Hi,
Hope someone can help.
I am booked on the night Riviera next week, which has now been cancelled due to strike action.
I had a cabin booked which was my accomodation for the night.
I cannot travel earlier that day - but can travel the following morning.
Is GWR responsible for anything at all? Or is it just the case of tough luck, you are stranded and need to spend the night at the station?
I am getting passed around in circles with GWR.
Thank you

 

[Bletchleyite]

Best option is probably to refund it and use the uplift for the cabin to pay for a cheap B&B or hostel.

 

[Watershed]

Hi,
Hope someone can help.
I am booked on the night Riviera next week, which has now been cancelled due to strike action.
I had a cabin booked which was my accomodation for the night.
I cannot travel earlier that day - but can travel the following morning.
Is GWR responsible for anything at all? Or is it just the case of tough luck, you are stranded and need to spend the night at the station?
I am getting passed around in circles with GWR.
Thank you

Yes, your rights are the same regardless of the reason for the disruption. If alternative accommodation can be procured and you choose to travel the next day then you're entitled to have GWR book this for you - or to recover the reasonable cost thereof if they refuse to do so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, your rights are the same regardless of the reason for the disruption. If alternative accommodation can be procured and you choose to travel the next day then you're entitled to have GWR book this for you - or to recover the reasonable cost thereof if they refuse to do so.

However depending on the ticket the OP holds they may find they are better off refunding it, rebooking and finding some cheap accommodation. They may find it easier to do this if they travel part way, e.g. to Slough or Reading; cheap accommodation is rare in London itself.

This will also result in fewer arguments.

 

[RailExplorer]

For info the journey I'm making (or had booked to make) was/is Penzance 21:45 Wednesday 27.07.22 to Paddington 05:04. Accomodation is minimum £110 in Penzance when searched for that night.

During the last strike, GWR ran no services south/west of Exeter.

I paid £40 for the sleeper cabin... Plus as it's staff rate (PRIV) on the off peak open return I'm struggling to find anything that matches the price. Hence my total reluctance to cancel as I've already paid out for other aspects of the trip.

My first available arrival into London Paddington is 11:29 (which is a peak train). Either way it's over 6 hours later so I assume I can apply for delay compensation as well?

I've wanted to do this Night Riviera for quite some time so it's disappointing that I'll only get the experience one way.

Thank you for both responses so far.

Oh and I'm travelling with a 1 year old. Otherwise I'd have just taken the chances and camped out at Penzance station!!!!

 

[sonic2009]

Ignore my message - OP going the opposite way.

 

[Haywain]

you are stranded and need to spend the night at the station?

The station is not likely to be open through the night to allow this anyway.

 

[sonic2009]

According to GWR Strike Information - nothing will run in Cornwall on strike days, so i suspect you will have to get to Plymouth.

 

[Haywain]

My first available arrival into London Paddington is 11:29

Assuming you are supposed to be leaving Penzance on the 27th, it's unlikely that will run on 28th - it didn't operate on the days after last two strike days. On those occasions the first train was the 08:15 from Penzance, arriving at 13:29.

 

[Watershed]

For info the journey I'm making (or had booked to make) was/is Penzance 21:45 Wednesday 27.07.22 to Paddington 05:04. Accomodation is minimum £110 in Penzance when searched for that night.

During the last strike, GWR ran no services south/west of Exeter.

I paid £40 for the sleeper cabin... Plus as it's staff rate (PRIV) on the off peak open return I'm struggling to find anything that matches the price. Hence my total reluctance to cancel as I've already paid out for other aspects of the trip.

My first available arrival into London Paddington is 11:29 (which is a peak train). Either way it's over 6 hours later so I assume I can apply for delay compensation as well?

I've wanted to do this Night Riviera for quite some time so it's disappointing that I'll only get the experience one way.

Thank you for both responses so far.

Oh and I'm travelling with a 1 year old. Otherwise I'd have just taken the chances and camped out at Penzance station!!!!

Of course, quite understandable. In that case asking GWR to arrange accommodation is clearly the best course of action, and you can take it from there.

The fact that the next train into Paddington could be a train not ordinarily valid on your Off-Peak ticket is irrelevant - you must be accommodated on the next available service, even if a higher fare would normally apply.

As it happens, with trains generally not starting up until after 07:30 on the days after each strike day, the first available train will be valid in any case.

There is also a right to delay compensation but I'd expect a battle getting that.

 

[RailExplorer]

I'm ready for a battle with this one - it's not even worth that much (PRIV ticket was about £30 off peak open return). Pretty much all other trips I would do around the UK could easily be rearranged or cancelled at short notice. It really annoys me that they think it's ok to just send an email to say "your train and accomodation is cancelled, click here for a refund". Thanks again for the replies. I have managed to get my case escalated for quicker turnaround from GWR which is a start.

I don't do UK trips/holidays often, and to be honest, this is probably the last one I'll do until this round of strikes have firmly been resolved.

 

[Watershed]

I'm ready for a battle with this one - it's not even worth that much (PRIV ticket was about £30 off peak open return). Pretty much all other trips I would do around the UK could easily be rearranged or cancelled at short notice. It really annoys me that they think it's ok to just send an email to say "your train and accomodation is cancelled, click here for a refund". Thanks again for the replies. I have managed to get my case escalated for quicker turnaround from GWR which is a start.

I don't do UK trips/holidays often, and to be honest, this is probably the last one I'll do until this round of strikes have firmly been resolved.

Indeed. There is a palpable arrogance within the industry, with TOCs pretending it's OK to mislead people into accepting a refund by omitting to mention the right to travel on another date of your choosing (not just a narrow window defined by the TOCs), the right to re-routeing and the right to alternative transport/accommodation.

EU261 requires airlines to inform passengers of their rights when a flight is cancelled. Perhaps similar legislation is required here...

 

[AlterEgo]

Good luck getting GWR to provide a hotel. Not suggesting you're not strictly entitled to it, but if it were me, I'd be getting to Plymouth the night before and getting a Travelodge or a BnB and charging it back to GWR. Of course you should at least ask GWR so you've given them notice there's a problem, to cover yourself for the eventual dispute.

 

[RailExplorer]

Problem is I won't be able to get to Plymouth the night before. I'm arriving from Isle of Scilly at around 7pm. I will try to book something that can be cancelled up until the day before to give GWR a chance to reply. How on earth are the TOCs getting away with this!!!!!! Back in the day when I did train planning, it was drilled into me that we must always ensure last connections were maintained to avoid costs being given to the train planning department.

 

[Watershed]

How on earth are the TOCs getting away with this!!!!!!

In short, because they can. The ORR frankly couldn't care less.

 

[RailExplorer]

In short, because they can. The ORR frankly couldn't care less.

If I didn't work on the railways, I don't think I'd ever really use them in the UK - even though I enjoy traveling by train (plus it's a hobby). Shame really. I shall update this thread with answers as to how I got on.

 

[Haywain]

How on earth are the TOCs getting away with this!!!!!! Back in the day when I did train planning, it was drilled into me that we must always ensure last connections were maintained to avoid costs being given to the train planning department.

It's a strike! How on earth do you expect them to run the trains?

 

[paul1609]

Problem is I won't be able to get to Plymouth the night before. I'm arriving from Isle of Scilly at around 7pm. I will try to book something that can be cancelled up until the day before to give GWR a chance to reply. How on earth are the TOCs getting away with this!!!!!! Back in the day when I did train planning, it was drilled into me that we must always ensure last connections were maintained to avoid costs being given to the train planning department.

Theres overnight national express services that run from Penzance to London some of which still have availability that night. I think that's your best bet tbh.

 

[RailExplorer]

A 2 year toddler on a night bus... Not a chance. I have some courtesy to fellow travellers!!!!! It'll be hard enough on a 5 hour day train. And I say this after just taking her on a 5 week Interrail style trip around Europe which involved buses, ferries and plenty of trains.

It's not the strike I have a problem with (I am a train driver at the end of the day). I have a problem with GWR not providing adequate solutions. Refund and/or postponement is not always an option, yet they are the only two options they provide. GWR needs to take a financial hit if it can't agree on working conditions with its workforce. At the moment it's completely rubbing its hands clean of all responsibilities and the only people losing out seem to be the striking workforce and the travelling public.

But I don't really want to discuss anything to do with the strike at all. All I wanted to know is "what is GWRs responsibility towards a passenger with a ticket for a train that has been cancelled, with particular emphasis placed on th fact the train also doubles up as overnight accommodation".

 

[alastair]

A 2 year toddler on a night bus... Not a chance. I have some courtesy to fellow travellers!!!!! It'll be hard enough on a 5 hour day train. And I say this after just taking her on a 5 week Interrail style trip around Europe which involved buses, ferries and plenty of trains.

It's not the strike I have a problem with (I am a train driver at the end of the day). I have a problem with GWR not providing adequate solutions. Refund and/or postponement is not always an option, yet they are the only two options they provide. GWR needs to take a financial hit if it can't agree on working conditions with its workforce. At the moment it's completely rubbing its hands clean of all responsibilities and the only people losing out seem to be the striking workforce and the travelling public.

But I don't really want to discuss anything to do with the strike at all. All I wanted to know is "what is GWRs responsibility towards a passenger with a ticket for a train that has been cancelled, with particular emphasis placed on th fact the train also doubles up as overnight accommodation".

Whereas I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make surely logic dictates that if you are travelling on a massively discounted priv ticket you surely can't expect to be treated the same as a normal full fare paying passenger?

 

[Falcon1200]

Whereas I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make surely logic dictates that if you are travelling on a massively discounted priv ticket you surely can't expect to be treated the same as a normal full fare paying passenger?

Why not ? I understand this point of view but staff have earned their privilege travel and there is no justification for treating them worse than anyone else.

 

[embers25]

Problem is I won't be able to get to Plymouth the night before. I'm arriving from Isle of Scilly at around 7pm. I will try to book something that can be cancelled up until the day before to give GWR a chance to reply. How on earth are the TOCs getting away with this!!!!!! Back in the day when I did train planning, it was drilled into me that we must always ensure last connections were maintained to avoid costs being given to the train planning department.

Why can't you get the 2208 XC from Penzance to Plymouth and then a train to London from there the next day?

 

[Haywain]

Why can't you get the 2208 XC from Penzance to Plymouth and then a train to London from there the next day?

Because there’s a strike on Wednesday.

 

[AlterEgo]

Whereas I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make surely logic dictates that if you are travelling on a massively discounted priv ticket you surely can't expect to be treated the same as a normal full fare paying passenger?

Of course they can - they have the same rights.

 

[RailExplorer]

Why not ? I understand this point of view but staff have earned their privilege travel and there is no justification for treating them worse than anyone else.

Using a PRIV is merely a reduction in full fare - the same as using any other type of Railcard - such as a student Railcard, or over 60's Railcard. I have to buy a ticket and abide by the T&C's of that ticket. I wouldn't really have a leg to stand on if I was using my own companies free staff travel pass, but alas, I'm not and I have to abide by the ticket rules the TOC / RDG set.

As a side note, I tried my travel insurer but they won't cover the trip as it's less than 2 nights in a hotel. They don't count trains as a form of hotel.

 

[Watershed]

Whereas I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make surely logic dictates that if you are travelling on a massively discounted priv ticket you surely can't expect to be treated the same as a normal full fare paying passenger?

This makes no difference. If using a free "box" or similar, then perhaps you would have a point. But the only thing that using a Priv changes, is the amount of compensation payable in the event of a delay (as this is based on the 75% discounted fare).

 

[paul1609]

The issue as I see it as the OP is expecting to receive compensation from GW as though it is a private concern. The reality is that all the tocs during the pandemic would have had to hand back their franchises as they would have gone bankrupt without government support. This public support is continuing at a very high level to keep the railways going to this date. Railway staff have now decided to instigate industrial action which is increasing the support required to keep the railway going. If railway staff travelling on discounted tickets were to be paid compensation for losses resulting from the strikes affecting their holiday travel that would have to be paid through extra Govt support. Do I think that should be a government spending priority against Govt support for Pensioners who need support when their electricity bill will be a third of their state pension? Probably not.

 

[Watershed]

The issue as I see it as the OP is expecting to receive compensation from GW as though it is a private concern. The reality is that all the tocs during the pandemic would have had to hand back their franchises as they would have gone bankrupt without government support. This public support is continuing at a very high level to keep the railways going to this date. Railway staff have now decided to instigate industrial action which is increasing the support required to keep the railway going. If railway staff travelling on discounted tickets were to be paid compensation for losses resulting from the strikes affecting their holiday travel that would have to be paid through extra Govt support. Do I think that should be a government spending priority against Govt support for Pensioners who need support when their electricity bill will be a third of their state pension? Probably not.

Compensation is almost a secondary issue. The cost of a hotel will far exceed any delay compensation the OP could be entitled to.

You also speak as if the OP is reliant on some sort of goodwill gesture. But they're not; they have contractual and statutory rights in this situation. These rights aren't reduced just because TOCs such as GWR are now effectively public sector organisations. Even if the government directed TOCs to try and save money, it wouldn't change the legal position.

 

[AngusH]

It's not rail, but it might be worth looking at flights.

Skybus flies St Marys to Lands End or Exeter.
Eastern airlines flies Newquay to London Gatwick

If you're already aware of these and have rejected the idea, no worries.

edit: possibly seeing if GWR might pay for such flights? Probably won't work though.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's not rail, but it might be worth looking at flights.

Skybus flies St Marys to Lands End or Exeter.
Eastern airlines flies Newquay to London Gatwick

If you're already aware of these and have rejected the idea, no worries.

edit: possibly seeing if GWR might pay for such flights? Probably won't work though.

Good thinking. Skybus to Exeter solves a problem, as the OP can then pick up a train the next day. They also fly to Newquay too.