Railway Industrial Disputes Mk2

[kristiang85]

How do you work that one out?
The cost of living has increased for everyone, more so for the higher earners when you factor in NI increases.

If you look at the staples in supermarkets, prices of pasta, rice, etc have pretty much doubled over the past year. The more high end foods have only gone up a little bit. So if your household budget post mortgage/rent is spent on food and heating, then that is a much larger rise than people who have a lot more disposable income.

 

[Signal_Box]

It must be a very big fan. My medium size fan costs a penny an hour.

I’m trying to keep my bills down overall, no unnecessary usage. Like you I’d expect I get little to no help unlike our less well off “oh bless them their poor” fellow nationals.

 

[Bantamzen]

How do you work that one out?
The cost of living has increased for everyone, more so for the higher earners when you factor in NI increases.

We are skewing way off topic with this, but say energy bills rise from £1500pa to £2000pa, for someone on £50K that will bite a into their budget a bit. For someone on £20K it could mean the difference between being able to heat their homes this coming winter & not being able to. Cost of living rises always disproportionately hit the lowest waged because unless you know otherwise, the cost of most goods and services is not based on how much you earn.

 

[irish_rail]

This is a very left wing forum. The left hate success and the fact you've worked hard and made something of your life.
There's even a thread on here asking if hard work is worth it!

Must be a sign of intelligence on here then. You only need to look at the US to see the middle states (all heavily right wing) haven't got a brain cell between them. Nowadays , being left wing generally means well educated and tolerant, so I'd say that's a pretty decent endorsement of the people on here....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Nowadays, being left wing generally means well educated and tolerant.

Does that mean that the left-wing leadership of the RMT union are the exception to that rule, especially with regards to the tolerant word you mentioned?

 

[DC1989]

Of course the assumption that lower paid people don't work hard is nonsense. In my career some of the laziest employees I've come across have been those promoted to managerial positions.

Naturally there's a lot of people that don't work hard that are low paid but I think the percentage of those wouldn't decrease much as you worked your way up salary levels

 

[yorksrob]

What do you call reasonably frequently? In the quoted YouGov survey only 14% used the railway more than once a month. Again that was pre covid before commuting was decimated.

That's still a sizable proportion of the electorate though. Add to that those occasional passengers who make the of trip for leisure who will when it's ruined.

There's something totally wrong with those figures. Other statistics have suggested that only about 10% of the UK population regularly use trains. A few more use trains occasionally.

Just looking at the high proportion of people far away from rail lines and, in particular, the vast number of private cars, that suggests that 10% must be close to the actual figure.

Those other statistics seem more suspect to me. The UK and England in particular has quite an urbanised and concentrated population, so I expect a large proportion will be somewhere near a train of some sort. Whilst it's true that daily commuting is probably quite rare now, I think the proportion using rail for other reasons will be higher.

 

[43066]

Nowadays , being left wing generally means well educated and tolerant, so I'd say that's a pretty decent endorsement of the people on here....

That’s the biggest laugh I’ve had for ages, thanks!

 

[ComUtoR]

We are skewing way off topic with this, but say energy bills rise from £1500pa to £2000pa, for someone on £50K that will bite a into their budget a bit. For someone on £20K it could mean the difference between being able to heat their homes this coming winter & not being able to. Cost of living rises always disproportionately hit the lowest waged because unless you know otherwise, the cost of most goods and services is not based on how much you earn.

Could you show your workings please. Your maths looks wrong.

 

[Bantamzen]

Could you show your workings please. Your maths looks wrong.

Hopefully this is a tongue in cheek comment, but just in case you don't need any workings, if you have less available income a £500 increase in energy bills will impact you more than someone with a higher amount of disposable income. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

 

[irish_rail]

That’s the biggest laugh I’ve had for ages, thanks!

True though , how else do you explain it in the US? The educated vote Democrat and the gun toting morons vote republican.

Wasn't always so in UK perhaps, but now more educated people vote for left wing parties (lib dem and Labour) and those with lower levels of education vote Tory. The political spectrum has been turned on its head perhaps in past 20 years or so.

 

[ComUtoR]

Hopefully this is a tongue in cheek comment, but just in case you don't need any workings, if you have less available income a £500 increase in energy bills will impact you more than someone with a higher amount of disposable income. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

It's not tongue in cheek.

Your working are based on incorrect assumptions. You have also changed from "budget" to disposable income.

Someone with a £50k income doesnt guarantee they have a greater disposable income than someone on £20k

The heating bills are also not the same. Someone with a 6 bedroom house may have a higher heating bill than someone in a 1 bedroom flat.

Inflation is affecting everyone differently.

I'm on £50k+ I guarantee you cannot calculate my monthly budget or my disposable income.

I had a Driver tell me the other day that they were using food banks. There are Drivers out there, and in fact many other rail workers who are reliant on rest day working because they struggle to get through every month.

Life isn't as simple as earn more, have more.

 

[Bantamzen]

It's not tongue in cheek.

Your working are based on incorrect assumptions. You have also changed from "budget" to disposable income.

Someone with a £50k income doesnt guarantee they have a greater disposable income than someone on £20k

The heating bills are also not the same. Someone with a 6 bedroom house may have a higher heating bill than someone in a 1 bedroom flat.

Inflation is affecting everyone differently.

I'm on £50k+ I guarantee you cannot calculate my monthly budget or my disposable income.

I had a Driver tell me the other day that they were using food banks. There are Drivers out there, and in fact many other rail workers who are reliant on rest day working because they struggle to get through every month.

Life isn't as simple as earn more, have more.

I can promise you those at the bottom, often will little or no cloth to cut will have a worse time than you with the cost of living. I'm afraid I'm not interested in this faux rage, if you are on that amount of money I'd be amazed & highly cynical that there is the same amount of pressure than someone on less than half. And even if there were, I suspect there would be options to pursue to reduce costs where people on much less may not have that wiggle room.

 

[Goldfish62]

I can promise you those at the bottom, often will little or no cloth to cut will have a worse time than you with the cost of living. I'm afraid I'm not interested in this faux rage, if you are on that amount of money I'd be amazed & highly cynical that there is the same amount of pressure than someone on less than half. And even if there were, I suspect there would be options to pursue to reduce costs where people on much less may not have that wiggle room.

Yes, the UK has one of the worst poverty gaps of any developed nation. It's an absolute disgrace for the 5th richest country on the planet. The priority has to be to give higher real-terms awards to those on the lowest pay. I'm not just talking railways here. Awarding the same percentage rise to everyone just widens the gap further.

 

[dakta]

If you buy Heinz beans you can always go to own brand but if you started on own brand...

I get Bantanzems point, the wealthier will always have more options even when it sucks for all

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I get Bantanzems point, the wealthier will always have more options even when it sucks for all

Which has always been the case since time immemorable.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Generally speaking, those with lower disposable incomes will budget accordingly and will think twice before spending any money. Higher earners will usually always pay more tax, NI and pension contributions. Also, many of these will often have higher debt (e.g. bigger mortgages) and possibly annual professional fees to pay.

Anyway, we're going off-topic....

 

[Need2]

Hopefully this is a tongue in cheek comment, but just in case you don't need any workings, if you have less available income a £500 increase in energy bills will impact you more than someone with a higher amount of disposable income. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

Why does everyone seem to think that if you earn more you have pots of cash laying about?
If you earn more then you tend to spend more.

 

[Shrop]

I have noticed there’s a sizeable membership who hate anyone who has worked hard to achieve in life.

I often think they hate themselves for doing the same, guilt might be a more tamer way of putting it.

I however do not hate myself, I’ve worked bloody hard to get where I am and I’m not going to suck up a poor pay raise or decrease my life standard because some people lack the ability to succeed in life or are just plain lazy.

There's a lot of generalised opinions appearing, so let me offer that there are actually four boundaries of working people, as follows:

1. People who work very hard, making sacrifices, taking opportunities and risks, and are well off as a result.
2. People who float into well paid jobs via fortunate contacts, but they don't work particularly hard and they're not particularly good at their jobs either.
3. People who are inherently lazy, who believe they should be entitled to as much pay as everyone else, but who shirk real hard work and sacrifice at every opportunity.
4. People who really do work hard, but life deals them an unfair amount of bad cards, so they never manage to achieve much wealth however hard they try.

There are all manner of people in between these boundaries, but those in categories 2 and 3 are often quite judgemental, and vociferous with it, without any real entitlement to be either.

You can often learn a lot about people and their attitudes to life, and to their work, by the way they drive their cars. (Tailgating, lane hogging, driving aggressively, too slowly, not concentrating, the list goes on). I could pontificate for ages on this, but probably best to stop here.

 

[Need2]

Anyway, we're going off-topic....

We are but very well put.

 

[Falcon1200]

Nowadays , being left wing generally means well educated and tolerant,

On the contrary, it seems to me that left-wingers are often utterly intolerant of any views differing from their own.

more educated people vote for left wing parties (lib dem and Labour) and those with lower levels of education vote Tory

How on earth do you work that out ? How do you know, for example, my level of education and who I vote for ?

The priority has to be to give higher real-terms awards to those on the lowest pay. I'm not just talking railways here. Awarding the same percentage rise to everyone just widens the gap further.

That I do agree with.

 

[43066]

True though , how else do you explain it in the US? The educated vote Democrat and the gun toting morons vote republican.

Wasn't always so in UK perhaps, but now more educated people vote for left wing parties (lib dem and Labour) and those with lower levels of education vote Tory. The political spectrum has been turned on its head perhaps in past 20 years or so.

More so the “tolerance” comment - not sure the modern left exactly qualifies as that!

I’ve always understood age and socio economic background has a lot to do with it - people who vote Conservative tend to be older and wealthier. People also often change from labour to conservative as they age.

The red wall has changed this a bit recently, but Brexit has sort of split the electorate in a different way to traditional party allegiances.

 

[Falcon1200]

I’ve always understood age and socio economic background has a lot to do with it - people who vote Conservative tend to be older, wealthier. People often change from labour to conservative as they age.

I have voted in every General Election since 1979, at different times (obviously !) for Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories, depending on who I felt offered the best policies at the time; Although there has never been a party of any colour whose every single idea I supported. Nowadays in Scotland however things are skewed somewhat by the Nationalist argument, so part of my decision is based on who is most likely to beat the SNP.

 

[dakta]

Which has always been the case since time immemorable.

Yep but not mooted by said passage of time. I don't think the richer people have pots of cash but you can definitely roll with life's punches without bruising as easy

 

[Bantamzen]

Why does everyone seem to think that if you earn more you have pots of cash laying about?
If you earn more then you tend to spend more.

Yes, and that also allows you room to change spending habits as the cost of living goes up. People in lower income brackets may not have that luxury, and will sometimes find themselves choosing which essentials to have / pay for each month. This is getting way off topic so I'm sure the mods will be along to ask us to stop. If people feel so badly done by if poorer people might get a couple of percent more in rises, perhaps open a thread on the general forum?

Edit: Typo

 

[Dryce]

. Nowadays , being left wing generally means well educated and tolerant

Or maybe rather that they think they are well educated and tolerant.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

You only need to look at the US to see the middle states (all heavily right wing) haven't got a brain cell between them.

Interesting that in the US the more conservative states, the ones that "haven't got a brain cell between them" are the fastest growing and most prosperous, while the left wing states such as California are hemorrhaging people fleeing the high tax burdens and nanny-state policies.

I guess I am an outlier as I have 2 master's degrees yet am a conservative socially, although somewhat middle of the road on economic matters. I actually think trade unions are a good thing, as long as they stick to doing what is best for their members and stay away from the Marxist garbage.

 

[43066]

I actually think trade unions are a good thing, as long as they stick to doing what is best for their members and stay away from the Marxist garbage.

Amen to that.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

It seems chiltern have won a legal case against Aslef for the strike on the 30th, as a result the strike has been cancelled and the drivers will be re balloted

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It seems chiltern have won a legal case against Aslef for the strike on the 30th, as a result the strike has been cancelled and the drivers will be re balloted

If true, this doesn't bode well for the other TOCs ...